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Comments about an OTB statement

josh_the_hot_boy

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In the past years, piracy has become an increasingly big problem. These days, based on what we KNOW, we can estimate that for every DVD or download somebody buys from us, about 8 to10 copies get downloaded without any payment or compensation to us, because pirates make them available illegally without giving OTB any credit at all for creating them.

Why is it that nobody has a problem with spending a few dollars on a beer, or a cup of coffee, but that the guys who bring you entertainment in our videos are losing out big time because their work gets pirated beyond belief? Why is it that so many people feel that porn should be free to download or even free to be given away without the people who actually create it having a say in that?


Porn is not free to create, the costs of producing one DVD title are huge, depending on the number of models involved and the locations we use to shoot the videos. We have to pay the models and cameramen. We need equipment like cameras, professional lighting and computers. We need to setup locations. We have the guys do HIV and STD testing. Then there is the post production work such as editing, graphical work, manufacturing the actual DVDs etcetera. To earn back only the costs of production, we need to sell more than 1000 DVDs or downloads of each production.
Do you know what it costs to run the day to day work to keep you entertained? Just maintaining the websites, paying the salaries of our programmers, our designers, our editors, all overhead (utility bills, housing, bookkeeping, taxes, our webservers)? Do you have any idea what it costs to just bring you our services 24/7 so you can get your entertaiment delivered when you want it where you want it? We have to pay for all of that, for your benefit, from what we can sell in downloads and DVDs.


Our income, gained through legitimate sales of our videos, has over the past 2 to 3 years dropped by a staggering 75 to 80%. Because we are not a main stream Hollywood film studio, we never made millions out of our work as some people seem to think. Our market is really a niche with a limited number of people who are interested in it and you are one of those happy few. Then on our budget a 75% drop does make a huge difference.

Now the piracy rate has grown to 1 to 8 or even 1 to 10, we simply fail to sell enough legitimate DVDs and downloads. We never sold anywhere close to 10.000 DVDs in the past of any given title, our niche market is really not that big but we were doing OK. Now with so much piracy going on, we can hardly get the income we need to finance our work. It does not take a mathematician to figure that out. OTB has become the victim of its own success. Because our videos are relatively popular compared to other studios, they only get pirated more reducing our sales to levels that are too low to continue.

Because of the decline in sales we already had to close one of our 5 offices and because of that 4 people have already lost their jobs. Those were real full time, paying jobs, providing people with the means to live. Because of this also our production of new videos has been minimized over the past year, so most models have faced a complete loss of income too! We are sure that is not what you intended, but it is the hard side of piracy in reality.

We understand that the crisis has had an effect, but the real pain is that too many formerly paying clients turned to piracy as their source of videos. Why pay if you can find it for free? Well we can answer that question: if this gets any worse it will finish us off and we will never shoot any new video ever again. You won't get to see the new guys who applied to model, you won't see any future models, nor will you ever see any of your favorite current models ever again. And this does not only apply to OTB, but to most studios out here face the same problems. If you want new videos, you somehow have to find a way to be fair to the people who work hard to bring you your entertainment.

Then let's talk about the models. Many times we get the question if we treat our models right, and we are always proud to say that we do. We pay them for one shoot what they would normally earn in two weeks or a month of doing a regular job. Many of the boys use those payments to improve their lives and some of them we could even offer a full time job in doing other work for the company. Many new models came to us because of the stories of other models. Now compare that with the actions of piracy. The only goal of piracy is gaining without giving, having without contributing. It makes the question if we treat our models right rather weird if it comes from people who feel it is OK to pirate our work.

Now around us here in Bogota, hundreds of boys, one even cuter and hotter than than the other, want to be a model. They are literally waiting to get their pants off and screw each other silly for your entertainment, IF only we could get back to a situation that EVERYONE who likes to watch them fuck suck and cum as only OTB models do, would chip in and pay a small share of the costs we face to create new videos. With that we do mean EVERYONE without ANY exception and with small share we do mean that 5 dollars is still a help too if that is all that you can afford.


We realize that piracy is not going away any day soon and because of that we do need to look at this issue somehow. We do see more and more of the bigger studios trying to go agressively after the people that give away their work illegally. Several studios are starting lawsuits, some even aimed at people just downloading their movies illegally. For us that is not the way to go forward. We want to believe that most people will want to be fair, especially if they understand the situation better..

We are sure you guys are all honest people, who now you realize what the real situation is, will feel things need to be brought to a fair and balanced situation for all. If we are right, then every one of you will contribute something and we can then just say that the balance has been recovered and OTB can create loads of new videos without having any problems doing so.


You want new videos, we need to sell to be able to create them. So let's make a deal. Every time that you obtained and watched one of our movies without paying anything for it, if indeed it has brought you joy and pleasure, what was that worth to you? Would that be for example the same as what you paid for one or two drinks the last time you were out? Is it worth the price of a gallon of gasoline, a box of chewing gum, or a tube of lubricant? What is it worth to you to get the models a decent income by helping to finance our productions by simply putting down a few dollars for them? As we said, this is all about being fair, even if you do not have lots to spend, would 5 dollars be a big problem for you? You know we will make good use of your money, because you know our movies and you like them.

Only together we can make things happen. When we have collected 20.000 USD through this page, we will use that money to shoot the next Bareback Friends title, for which we have some very nice ideas. We will then reset this rolling fund and start saving up for the money needed for the following title, Innocents 2 could be that next one as we already have the script and we really want to shoot it for you. You can always see the progress on the bar below which is maintained automatically after every contribution.



0%


Seen the number of illegal downloads (thousands and thousands !!!) we do know that you guys love our work, so why don't we just do this together? Just pay for your porn what you can afford. We do not ask for much, just a few bucks for getting you off. If you can afford more, then you can choose a higher amount. You decide what it is worth to you.


If you did download one or more illegal copies of our videos, would you contribute your share in the costs of creating those movies? We in turn will view your contribution as a fair payoff for your downloads. You do not have only our word for it, you will also have the transaction and the confirmation of it to back that up. Like that, because you contribute, you′re helping us to produce and you are part of the team that makes things happen. It’s good and fair for everyone like that.



YES, I feel it is fair that I pay OTB a contribution for the pleasure that you brought me! On the next page I will fill out the amount that I feel should be appropriate. (minimum contribution is 5 US dollars, because of the need to cover transaction costs).
No, I do not wish to contribute anything because:

Please do feel free to comment, as we are always interested in your opinion. After all, we work for you, our fans, friends and clients. Without you there are no videos. It is only in cooperation that we can make things happen.

No matter if you downloaded pirated copies there are no hard feelings, there is only our desire to move forward together. Please do move forward with us and the score between you and OTB is even. We are all on the same team anyway and our interest is the same as well: getting new videos out there of the cutest boys of the world.


This is posted on their website. I'm curious what you guys think?
 
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Stuart

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Personally, as a big fan of their stuff, we should ban anything from OTB here, they are really struggling, and lets be honest people many are watching clips of their stuff for nowt.

Lets give OTB a big boost, ban the stuff here, and guys go to their site a help a struggling studio and BUY some stuff, as a twink lover, I think theirs is the BEST! That's my view, because if they go under - everyone will miss them - Stuart x
 

ritsuka

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Our income, gained through legitimate sales of our videos, has over the past 2 to 3 years dropped by a staggering 75 to 80%.

Yes, and that is because in the past 2-3 years the global financial recession has been pushing down consumer sales on everything; millions of jobs have been lost, thousands of stores have shut their doors which sell things that can't be pirated. So it really isn't all about piracy; most people (except the very rich who continue to get richer) simply haven't had as much spending money since 2008, it wasn't that people just randomly decided to download or not buy at all. It also isn't an excuse, in my opinion, for why the heads of companies always decide to lay off workers at the bottom instead of lowering their own exorbitant salaries a little bit. Anyway, I don't even recognize the name 'otb.'
 
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Stoic

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^ Aren't they that 'Cobra Videos' or something?

Anyway, I'm not going to confute OTB but free porn also promotes studios/sites that we otherwise wouldn't have heard of.
 

josh_the_hot_boy

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I just came across this statement and was wondering whether you guys thought there points were valid that's all. I'm not pointing fingers at anyone.
 

darkjimster

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I don´t know about how porn studios and stores work what i do know is how mainstream stores work in Holland for example the series ER, Gilmore Girls and The West Wing where down to 19,99 euro in the beginning of the year now in the true Holiday spirit the prices are up to
39,99 euro for ER and Gilmore Girls and The West Wing is 49,99 euro but you do get a second season for half the price which would make two series of ER and GG 60 euro and TWW 75 euro which is a difference of 20 to 35 euro what i would have paid in the beginning of 2010 my point is if mainstream studio want to point a finger they should point it at the stores who screw the customer and so i either wait for the prices to drop or i download them
 

darkjimster

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the most outlandish customer screwing i saw was with the Sissi trilogy being sold in one store for 59,99 euro and in another store for 9,99 euro on the same day
 
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smallsleepyrascalcat

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Who would spend money on a Sissi-DVD?

It's on TV every Christmas... it has been for the last 40 years or so... god I hate those movies.

If you want to see a really good Romy Schneider watch her french movies.
 

jeansGuyOZ

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I could probably make a more meaningful comment if I knew what OTB was exactly.

Regarding piracy, I certainly don't condone it, but why would anyone be surprised that when one has a choice between paying the asking price for something, and downloading it for nothing, a large number of people will do the latter? And as for "they don't mind paying a few dollars for a beer or a cup of coffee", no they don't, but given the choice, if bars and cafes worked on an honour system, I think lots of them would be grabbing free beer and coffee also.

People are people... some people are nice, some are arseholes, that's always been the case and always will be.
 

josh_the_hot_boy

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Otb is a porn company and they have this statement on there website and I was just wondering what we as one of the places they don't seem to like think about it.
 

jeansGuyOZ

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Otb is a porn company and they have this statement on there website and I was just wondering what we as one of the places they don't seem to like think about it.

OK thanks, it was fairly clear that OTB was a porn company of some kind, I just wondered if it differed in any significant way from other companies - like do they specialise in a particular kind of porn, or distribute in a different way from other studios etc.

Having read their manifesto, it seems to suggest that they specialise in "bareback", which makes me a bit uncomfortable. I know that's what a lot of the audience want to see, and possibly it's true that their models are tested to make sure there is no possibility of HIV transmission, but I still think that's not sending the right message to the community. It's a bit like smoking - we don't make programs anymore that show people smoking, because it's considered a dangerous habit, and even if you used fake cigarettes with artificially generated smoke so that the actors or presenters would not be inhaling tobacco smoke, that wouldn't be acceptable, it would defeat the point because it would still look as though people are smoking and that's what the health officials don't want.

Do OTB mention gayheaven by name? If not, I think it's a case of "if the cap fits". I certainly agree that if we ban videos from commercial stidios such as Bel Ami, that should apply across the board and should include OTB. The admin seem to take a responsible position on this business of posting commercial vids, so maybe they'll look at this issue.

BTW Josh, is there a reason why you have to use that massive font?
 
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josh_the_hot_boy

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I apologize if my font or this posting has offended anyone I'm not saying I agree just read this on their page and was curious about people opinions.
 

Mamah

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I have a lot of sympathy for OTB's situation, but I don't think the main problem is piracy which is affecting them & other companies. If that was true we should see surely be seeing less porn studios as existing ones are driven out of business by piracy and no one would want to start a new one up. But I get the impression that there are now more porn studios than ever before - and that indicates a growing market & growing demand. I think OTB's main problem was poor marketing by its predecessors and failure to produce new ideas because they got stuck in their initial success.
 
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smallsleepyrascalcat

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I apologize if my font or this posting has offended anyone I'm not saying I agree just read this on their page and was curious about people opinions.

There is no reason to aplologize, wether for the font you were using nor for the subject of this thread.
In fact, it's always good to hear the other sides arguments, isn't it?
And for an old man like me the size you were using was very good... and now think of the guys older then me ;)
 

josh_the_hot_boy

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All I meant by this thread was that this company in this statement is speaking out against sites like us and I was merely curious of your guys opinions is all I don't agree with there statement. I think that we have SOME impact but that we are not directly responsible and that there numbers are a little inflated especially considering that they can't know for sure.
 
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jeansGuyOZ

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But, Josh, you don't know for sure either. And admittedly we have only their word for how much their profits have dropped, but assuming they are not making the figures up I venture to suggest that the studios are in a better position that you and I to know how much piracy is affecting their sales. they have access to their own sales figures, and also probably have access to information about how much of their material has been posted to the Internet and can be viewed there. And leaving aside the question of whether us posting their material here is the right thing to do or not, I don't understand your "We are not directly responsible". In what way are we not responsible? If the site that hosts the pirated material is not responsible, and the person who posted it to that site is not responsible, then who IS responsible for piracy and subsequent loss of sales?

Let's assume for the moment that their claims are correct - that their profits have dropped quite substantially, and that they have evidence that at the same time the amount of their stuff being pirated and posted to the Net has increased markedly, making it highly likely that there is at least SOME correlation between the two. If you were in their position, what would you do?

------------------------------
And I'm sorry, I know there are far worse crimes than posting in large font, but does it have to be SO large? :rofl:
 
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cg1x

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Their business model

I used to subscribe to OTB. At least several years back they quit producing new weekly releases, shut down sites and moved to old compilation downloads. If you're not producing new stuff the customer base is going to shrink. The head of OTB mentions hotter and hotter guys all willing to work. What I saw was a core stable of guys and then they kept using them over and over. When a new guy would be infrequently introduced he usually wasn't as hot as the original group.

Piracy may be part of the problem but OTB itself made some decisions in the direction it wanted to go and now seem ready to place the blame everywhere except in house.
 
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diklik

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All I meant by this thread was that this company in this statement is speaking out against sites like us ...... I think that we have SOME impact but that we are not directly responsible

Josh, your quote of Mohandas (The Mahatma) Ghandi is interesting. If anyone wishes to end piracy on the internet, then they must stop posting, viewing or otherwise using any pirated material; that is if you believe in the quote that you use.

Strictly speaking, if the owner of the copyright hasn't given permission for use, then posting it is piracy. Sure, I watch videos that are posted here, so I am guilty of possibly furthering some piracy. However most sites aren't complaining about the videos posted, since many of those vids are already older stuff. However, let's not fall back on self-deception......unless the actual owner of intellectual property has specifically cleared a video or still pic for public release, then posting it is a breach of copyright. The fact that most studios are not complaining about the publicity - which encourages others to visit them and purchase current material - does not relieve the pressure on the small producers who are disappearing or rapidly going broke due to their market dwindling in view of pirated stuff.
 
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