Forgiveness

[jw4833]

Hey Guys:

I would like to share something with you that I was involved in over this past weekend. Any of you whom had read any of my previous posts may be aware of me mentioning being raped and beaten by someone whom I had considered to be a close friend of mine. Well, after going through that very traumatic experience, I had became filled with so much bitterness and anger that before I had consented to seeking therapy, the medical doctors that I've been seeing would tell me that even when I would not say anything, they could see the anger, the hurt and bitterness all over my face. Throughout this process of therapy, the therapist and I had became good friends because we did share that in common (being raped by a friend).

However, once I had came to the point of accepting what had happened to me, I was encouraged to seek forgiveness toward the friend who had attack me. First of all, he had moved to another state in order to start a fresh, new life. Second of all, I found it hard to wrap my head around forgiving him for putting through such a horrible, life-threatening situation that would be with me for the rest of my life.

Eventually, I did get to that point of seeking forgiveness not for him, but for me to be able to move forward and close that chapter to a degree where it would not haunt me on a daily basis. During the past several years, I had been asked to share my story with individuals whom had been subjected to sexual abuse and rape as myself. This past weekend, I had spoke to a group of men who did not know how to go about living with this on a daily basis or yet, how to be able to make steps in order to move forward.

What compelled me to share this with you all is that one of the guys had asked me if I ever had the opportunity to talk to my attacker and let him know that I forgive him for my personal closure? Another guy had asked me if I ever wonder if he thinks about me considering we were close friends prior to the incident or does I believe that it has to be difficult for him to embark on a new life in another state considering what he had done to me when he lived in the same city?

I responded with I did attempt to seek him for closure and forgiveness but the two people that he is related to who knew what had happened and knew where he was declined my request. Therefore, I had to seek closure on my own with my belief in God and my strength and determination to go forward. In regard to wondering if what happened bothered him or ran across his thoughts even though he is in another city has been in my thoughts periodically especially when I hear a song that he would play when he and I were hanging out together or if a character on TV has his name or if I'm reading something or surfing the internet, his name appears as well.

While in the doctor's office earlier today, there was a program on the TV where the moderator spoke about forgiveness and being able to forgive someone who had hurt you really bad for your closure and progress instead of it being for the person who caused the harm. This program spoke highly in regard to what I am mentioning at the beginning of this post.

With that being said, I propose the same question to you all. Under intense and painful cirstances, would you be able to forgive those who have caused you pain not for them but for your purpose to move forward?

As always, I thank those guys who have taken the time to read this and respond. I am greatly appreciative. JW :thinking:

 

[HettoreConti]

I've heard somewhere that the body is just as sick as the mind and the secrets it holds... and for many years now, I've been very sick. I do find myself to be filled with profound anger, sadness and bitterness. And it shows. But I've learned from life itself (or so I'd like to believe) that I mustn't seek forgiveness in others, but within myself. The path of exculpation, however, is a very treacherous one, and has proven to be one to be walked for a lifetime.

In time I know I'll find justice (perhaps only within my mind, as I tend to do), and by that, achieve peacefulness and closure. There are still many painful experiences that lie well beyond my forgiveness, but I will forget and let go in order to survive. Else, I'll rot where I stand.

 

[jw4833]

I've heard somewhere that the body is just as sick as the mind and the secrets it holds... and for many years now, I've been very sick. I do find myself to be filled with profound anger, sadness and bitterness. And it shows. But I've learned from life itself (or so I'd like to believe) that I mustn't seek forgiveness in others, but within myself. The path of exculpation, however, is a very treacherous one, and has proven to be one to be walked for a lifetime.

In time I know I'll find justice (perhaps only within my mind, as I tend to do), and by that, achieve peacefulness and closure. There are still many painful experiences that lie well beyond my forgiveness, but I will forget and let go in order to survive. Else, I'll rot where I stand.

Thank you for responding to my post. You know, I had difficulties with my immediate family because of my sexual orientation. When the incident that I speak of in this post had occurred, I did not tell my family about for over a year due to the fact that I had been abandoned and ignored by them for many years prior. However, when I was rushed to the hospital, the doctors had contacted them because they had assumed that I was not going to life through the initial surgery. This is when they found out what happened. As I expected, there was no empathy for me from them and with all that was happening with me at that time, I became more bitter than before at them. However, once I sought therapy, I was eventually able to forgive them for their actions. But what I had to learn was that when you forgive someone for their actions doesn't mean that you have to seat at the dinner table and break bread with them, it just mean that you are able to let it go and lift that burden off of you in order for you to move forward and allow the doors of opportunity to open for you. My wish for you is that one day soon, you are able to get to that point..Take Care, JW :thumbs up:

 

[HettoreConti]

But what I had to learn was that when you forgive someone for their actions doesn't mean that you have to seat at the dinner table and break bread with them, it just mean that you are able to let it go and lift that burden off of you in order for you to move forward and allow the doors of opportunity to open for you. My wish for you is that one day soon, you are able to get to that point..Take Care, JW :thumbs up:

Absolutely true. This whole post could be very well resumed to this. Needless to say, I'm very much in awe that you were able to create something beautiful from such unspeakable events. Much like an oyster who creates a gorgeous pearl by taking all the impurities surrounding it. It takes a lot of strenght. More than a lot of people can even imagine or even understand.

Oh, well. The struggle continues. And thank you. I will. :big hug:

 

[AleXXX UK]

I went through the single worst experience of my life a few years ago, though not the one you described. What made it worse was the fact it's someone you expect to care for you so you're guard is down and you're most vulnerable. That's why it hurts so bad when it happens. You become haunted by that thought, you relive it over and over again and it becomes impossible to rationalise why the person who you thought would protect you would be the one who would cause you most harm. The day after my situation I felt the old me had died. I could feel myself seething with venom and anger, I've never felt such injustice in my life. That very day, I too chose to forgive that person. Not because it didn't hurt but precisely because it did. It was like a thorn lodged in your heart, inescapable. That moment I decided to forgive that person for ME. I didn't want to see that person ever again, in fact as part of my forgiving process I knew I had to cut that person out of my life and any mutual friend. I didn't want that person to know whether I was dead or alive, I didn't care likewise. Once I forgave, I felt free of this hate, spite, anger. I did nothing to deserve that torment or for it to poison all of my future relations or happiness, for me to forgive that person was to heal myself. You never fully recover but you learn to live again and rebuilding your life, trust and confidence takes time. I hope you are able to heal and move on.

 

[jw4833]

I went through the single worst experience of my life a few years ago, though not the one you described. What made it worse was the fact it's someone you expect to care for you so you're guard is down and you're most vulnerable. That's why it hurts so bad when it happens. You become haunted by that thought, you relive it over and over again and it becomes impossible to rationalise why the person who you thought would protect you would be the one who would cause you most harm. The day after my situation I felt the old me had died. I could feel myself seething with venom and anger, I've never felt such injustice in my life. That very day, I too chose to forgive that person. Not because it didn't hurt but precisely because it did. It was like a thorn lodged in your heart, inescapable. That moment I decided to forgive that person for ME. I didn't want to see that person ever again, in fact as part of my forgiving process I knew I had to cut that person out of my life and any mutual friend. I didn't want that person to know whether I was dead or alive, I didn't care likewise. Once I forgave, I felt free of this hate, spite, anger. I did nothing to deserve that torment or for it to poison all of my future relations or happiness, for me to forgive that person was to heal myself. You never fully recover but you learn to live again and rebuilding your life, trust and confidence takes time. I hope you are able to heal and move on.

Thank you so much AleXXX UK: I have to say that I really appreciate and very grateful for your response because you could not expressed how I feel or felt while I was enduring the effects of that situation. What really hurt me deeply was that this was someone that I had spent a lot of time hanging out with. We had been there for each other a lot and for this to be the person to do this to me was and still is something that when I reflect back on it every now and then, I still can comprehend to. One of my close buddies tell me that this is because I cherished the friendship that we've had and I probably miss that most of all and when I hear a song that used to play when we hang out or hear his name, there are times that I wonder if what he did crosses his mind and if its possible for him to have a great life in another city despite all the damage that he left behind. My dad used to always say that when people do things to harm those who have been there for them to not burn bridges that you may find yourself needing to cross again in your lifetime. But as you say, it has gotten better since I decided to forgive and move forward. It just came to mind when I was speaking to those guys this weekend and the questions that I was asked. Thanks again...You don't know how much your words have meant for me...Take care, Peace, JW:cheers:

 

[XMan101]

Damn good post!

I've never been in the same horrible cirstances but I do know about forgiveness and moving on. If you don't it damages yourself and you carry a heavy weight on your back forever.

I long ago learned to forgive, but I have the added adendum of ignore also

 

[MaximumT]

I haven't been through anything that's even close to what you've been through, but betrayal I have. And while I have to admit that I hosted a lot of bitterness and anger towards the person I trusted and known almost all my life up until that moment, I have learned to just let it go. What I have difficulty with is the actual word "forgiveness", because that word for me is to actually forgive the person who's done you wrong, forgive the actions that have been done, and that is simply something I have a hard time to do, or rather cannot do.

But what I had to learn was that when you forgive someone for their actions doesn't mean that you have to seat at the dinner table and break bread with them, it just mean that you are able to let it go and lift that burden off of you in order for you to move forward and allow the doors of opportunity to open for you.

If forgiveness is something that means that you're able to let it go in order to move on, then yes, eventually it will happen, but never ever forgive the person for his/her actions.
I admire your strength for being able to move on and I'm happy you're well on your way in finding peace in life.

 

[jw4833]

I haven't been through anything that's even close to what you've been through, but betrayal I have. And while I have to admit that I hosted a lot of bitterness and anger towards the person I trusted and known almost all my life up until that moment, I have learned to just let it go. What I have difficulty with is the actual word "forgiveness", because that word for me is to actually forgive the person who's done you wrong, forgive the actions that have been done, and that is simply something I have a hard time to do, or rather cannot do.



If forgiveness is something that means that you're able to let it go in order to move on, then yes, eventually it will happen, but never ever forgive the person for his/her actions.
I admire your strength for being able to move on and I'm happy you're well on your way in finding peace in life.

Thanks so much Maximum T for responding to my post and I really appreciate your comments. I want to say thanks to you because with what you've mentioned in regard to forgiveness is where I am coming from with this post. What I have learned over the past several years is that when I get to the point of forgiving, however, I don't forget the actions. In other words, I forgive, but I don't forget and this is why I say i.e. with what I've mentioned about my family situation. After giving it one last try to mend that situation and seeing that this was a battle that I was fighting alone and my family members approached me as if I had to beg for their forgiveness for being gay, I've gotten the strength to forgive them, but that doesn't mean that I will stay with them on Christmas holidays or invite them to my home. However, the forgiveness is for my benefit, for my receiving closure. Thanks again, Maximum T..:cheers:

 

[Urban]

Congratulations on being able to heal, jw4833. While I've had some experience with betrayal (I think almost all of us have, to one degree or another), I have never been physically assaulted by anyone, much less a person I had considered to be a friend. I don't know what I would do, but I'm glad that you are learning to overcome it.

I just want to comment on what is probably a matter of semantics. I know that you are in the process of forgiving, but my own idea of forgiveness requires an apology. That may not meet the dictionary definition, but I could not forgive someone without at least an implicit acknowledgement of error from the person. I could learn over time to overcome my feelings of resentment, which maybe is how you are defining forgiveness, but for me forgiveness involves both persons, not just one. I think in this way I am more in tune with what MaximumT is saying.

 

[bigsal]

I agree with Urban.

Forgiveness is a noble gesture that is from the heart, but remains incomplete if the other party does not agree with the act, better with admission of guilt.

Things rarely go that way, but you need to turn the page and move on. You are right to forgive, because you need to close this sad chapter, and from what I understand reading your post, you're a good person.

I have followed your story from the beginning, with interest and deep sorrow for what has happened.

So do not judge me if I say this, you can forgive, indeed necessary, it is much, much more difficult to forget.

As I said, I am near you.

 

[jw4833]

I agree with Urban.

Forgiveness is a noble gesture that is from the heart, but remains incomplete if the other party does not agree with the act, better with admission of guilt.

Things rarely go that way, but you need to turn the page and move on. You are right to forgive, because you need to close this sad chapter, and from what I understand reading your post, you're a good person.

I have followed your story from the beginning, with interest and deep sorrow for what has happened.

So do not judge me if I say this, you can forgive, indeed necessary, it is much, much more difficult to forget.

As I said, I am near you.

Hey Big Sal:

I do not judge you because I value your responses and support that you've given me. As I may had mentioned within my posts, with me, to come to the place of forgiving someone for doing something so horrible is a huge step in growth for me personally. However, just because I forgive does not mean that I will ever forget. Which is something that I was told by my counselor that I will move forward but the fragments of this situation will live with me forever and that makes it difficult for me to forget. But I will persevere. Thanks so much buddy, JW:cheers:

 

[AleXXX UK]

Thank you so much AleXXX UK: I have to say that I really appreciate and very grateful for your response because you could not expressed how I feel or felt while I was enduring the effects of that situation. What really hurt me deeply was that this was someone that I had spent a lot of time hanging out with. We had been there for each other a lot and for this to be the person to do this to me was and still is something that when I reflect back on it every now and then, I still can comprehend to. One of my close buddies tell me that this is because I cherished the friendship that we've had and I probably miss that most of all and when I hear a song that used to play when we hang out or hear his name, there are times that I wonder if what he did crosses his mind and if its possible for him to have a great life in another city despite all the damage that he left behind. My dad used to always say that when people do things to harm those who have been there for them to not burn bridges that you may find yourself needing to cross again in your lifetime. But as you say, it has gotten better since I decided to forgive and move forward. It just came to mind when I was speaking to those guys this weekend and the questions that I was asked. Thanks again...You don't know how much your words have meant for me...Take care, Peace, JW:cheers:

Bless you. Please remember that bad things happen to good people. You could have got hit by a bus, lost your legs, your mind, anything. If you were destined for some bad luck, be grateful that you still have all your abilities, mind and senses. However bad you feel about your situation there are many people on the planet going through far worse. However bad your problems are there are others going through far worse. Remember to put your problem in that perspective.

It might sound a little sick but in a way I was glad 'that' thing happened to me of all people. I know almost everyone else would be consumed by rage and somehow that negative karma would have got back to the perpetrator. My 'forgiving' this person truly means I forgive them, they're free from any sin, karma and retribution. What they lost from their life was me. I am a good person who brings happiness to people's lives. When you did that thing you did to me, you lost me and all the happiness I bring to the other people in my life. That loss is enough of a punishment for you.

What you have to remember is that you're worth more than having that person in your life. The person had you but then monumentally, fucked up. Big time. Now you leave him, move on and let him be. If he has any conscious then regardless of whether he is settled or not it will eat him up every day. If he's truly an unremorseful monster then he's going straight to hell where he belongs. Either way, you have no reason to suffer. Learn to trust and learn to love again. You're worth more than anything he ever deserved.

 

[jw4833]

Bless you. Please remember that bad things happen to good people. You could have got hit by a bus, lost your legs, your mind, anything. If you were destined for some bad luck, be grateful that you still have all your abilities, mind and senses. However bad you feel about your situation there are many people on the planet going through far worse. However bad your problems are there are others going through far worse. Remember to put your problem in that perspective.

It might sound a little sick but in a way I was glad 'that' thing happened to me of all people. I know almost everyone else would be consumed by rage and somehow that negative karma would have got back to the perpetrator. My 'forgiving' this person truly means I forgive them, they're free from any sin, karma and retribution. What they lost from their life was me. I am a good person who brings happiness to people's lives. When you did that thing you did to me, you lost me and all the happiness I bring to the other people in my life. That loss is enough of a punishment for you.

What you have to remember is that you're worth more than having that person in your life. The person had you but then monumentally, fucked up. Big time. Now you leave him, move on and let him be. If he has any conscious then regardless of whether he is settled or not it will eat him up every day. If he's truly an unremorseful monster then he's going straight to hell where he belongs. Either way, you have no reason to suffer. Learn to trust and learn to love again. You're worth more than anything he ever deserved.

I have to say that when I reflect back on this incident, I am glad that it made me the individual that I am today because I am blessed and I come to realize that I am a good person due to the fact that I was able to find love again with someone who showed me nothing but love and admiration. As I've mentioned in previous posts, he passed away. However, at the time when I felt that at the state I was in that I would never feel that again, I did in such an incredible way. Therefore, I do agree with everything that you've mentioned in your response. I have become a very strong individual in so many ways and although as of late, I do have moments when something I hear or see triggers a memory back to a time prior to the incident, yet, I am proud of the growth that I've made especially to know that I am about to receive my degree in a couple of weeks and to have obtained high honors throughout my four-year journey, is something that makes me feel very proud of how far I've come for the better. Again, I thank you so much for taking time to send your very thoughtful words of encouragement. Take Care, JW:cheers:

 

[lhardwick69]

to me I say fuck forgiving the bastard for raping you--forgiving him is like saying it was ok even though it caused emotional scars--then he thinks well I was forgiven for it maybe I will do it again and again and those guys will forgive him as well--forgiving isn't the answer--

I was raped at 15 by two guys--they were friends of my brothers that my brother told them I was I into dick and they decided to let me have theirs in a very aggressive way--it wasn't the fact the forced me to suck their dicks meaning I did suck them but they wrent ramming it in my throat and then fucking me aggressively--for most part that wasn't to bad it was the punching slapping kicking me and stuck that made it kind of suck badly--


to this day I never forgave them and I never will but it comes to the point it has to be about you---there comes a time you need to decide to not let this run your life not let it pave the way for you-- let it go and not let it influence your future-- he has moved on and probably not thought more about it and the more you let it bother you the more he has won

those kind of scars are deep and forever they will never go away--but don't let that bastard win by ruining your life prove to him that his actions don't dictate what you do in life

 

[jw4833]

to me I say fuck forgiving the bastard for raping you--forgiving him is like saying it was ok even though it caused emotional scars--then he thinks well I was forgiven for it maybe I will do it again and again and those guys will forgive him as well--forgiving isn't the answer--

I was raped at 15 by two guys--they were friends of my brothers that my brother told them I was I into dick and they decided to let me have theirs in a very aggressive way--it wasn't the fact the forced me to suck their dicks meaning I did suck them but they wrent ramming it in my throat and then fucking me aggressively--for most part that wasn't to bad it was the punching slapping kicking me and stuck that made it kind of suck badly--


to this day I never forgave them and I never will but it comes to the point it has to be about you---there comes a time you need to decide to not let this run your life not let it pave the way for you-- let it go and not let it influence your future-- he has moved on and probably not thought more about it and the more you let it bother you the more he has won

those kind of scars are deep and forever they will never go away--but don't let that bastard win by ruining your life prove to him that his actions don't dictate what you do in life

Hey lhardwick69:

First of all, thanks for responding to my post and you are entitled to your opinion because believe it or not, initially, I felt the same way as you in this regard. However, because of my spiritual growth and my growth as an individual, my forgiving him is not for his benefit, its for mine in regard to having closure on the whole situation and moving forward with a clear path. Like you've mentioned in your response, those kind of scars are deep and I know that they will never go away because as I had mentioned, the memories for me are triggered by certain incidents or situations that will appear out of nowhere or even a specific song. The fact of the matter is that I may never get that forgiveness in order to get the closure on this situation and you know what, it doesn't stop me from progressing and putting forth steps to become the man that I know I can be and excel in some many positive avenues of my life. This initial post was me expressing feelings that I have when the memory triggers occurs.

However, forgiving does not mean forgetting and by me seeking forgiveness does not mean that he and I will ever have the relationship like we've had prior to this incident yet alone, even be at a dinner table or alone together again because this is not my intent because if it was, like you've mentioned also, this will allow him to feel as if he has an upper hand and allow him to approach me in the same manner or even worse again. I can respect your view on this subject matter but that's what makes the world interesting because we all have various opinions and approaches on how we deal with issues such as this. In fact, I was so full of bitterness and anger for a little over a couple of years after this had happened to me that there was no way that I would have seen my future with me having this kind of outlook on the situation altogether which I feel is me growing as an individual on all levels and that is what makes me proud and to know that overall ...HE FUCKED UP!!!because I did nothing to deserve that and I was a good friend to him and his family and I am a good person and a good friend, I know this because this is something that I am always told to by my close friend or my acquaintances.

But what I marvel most of all is that although I go through my moments of reflection, however, I am pretty sure that because of the ingenuity of that relationship, when I do crosses his mind and I'm sure I do, he is having a difficult time moving forward in his life on a whole different level than I will ever go through and this is something that will live with him for the rest of his life no matter what. Again, thanks for expressing your thoughts and opinions..:cheers:

 

[777]

I tried to seek that place where I could forgive, but that didn't work for me. I could forgive smaller things, but I just became filled with rage at the thought of rapists being forgiven, in any way. I got a new therapist and with her I've been better able to analyse my feelings and also forget the whole concept of forgiving in this context. They do not deserve my forgiveness, I have no reason to forgive, ever. They did what they did knowingly, planning it, considering the amount of violence they needed to be able to do what they did. I can let go of my rage, hate them but not let it be in the forefront of my thoughts. The bad thing is my body remembers better than my mind does, that I cannot help and it makes me bitter. But I guess more therapy will fix that too at some point. I hope they rot in hell and that their lives will be ruined in some way, but it's not something I actively need think about.

 

[Otage]

I would not forgive. Why should I? I know that anger turns "inwards", but will lead to some kind of action. In my opinnion there are two ways: forget or revenge. I don't think that by forgiving the ba**ards will never get what they deserve. If we all would just forgive everybody, what would there be to be afraid, if we make somenthing wrong knowinlgy? I've never been raped, but gone through some s**t in my life, and those quilty to those things have at least heard, what I think about them.