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Harsh criticism of the film "The Imitation Game"

gorgik9

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I read Christian Caryl's article "A Poor Imitation of Alan Turing" on the New York Review of Books Blog a couple of days ago Anon URL and found this harsh criticism of Morten Tyldum's movie The Imitation Game.

The nub of the matter in Caryl's article seems to me to be that Benedict Cumberbatch's Turing "conforms to the familiar stereotype of the otherworldly nerd". Since I haven't had the opportunity to watch the movie yet I can't give a judgement, but the article is worthwile reading!
 

W!nston

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Unfortunately I think that is a reasonable analysis of 'The Imitation Game'. I was disappointed by Cumberbatch's performance and the story seemed uninspired but all in all I think it's worth watching and deserves praise for the timing of it's release. The Gay Equality movement will benefit from this film because it may make a connection with straight audiences even though those who are straight and choose to watch it are probably already on the Gay Rights bandwagon anyway.

Thanks for sharing this review my friend.

:)
 

gb2000ie

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I've been to Bletchly park, and I got a guided tour by a lady who had worked there during the war, with Turing. She operated the Bombe machines.

Listening to her first-hand experiences of Turing - the image that emerged was one of a real eccentric. The impression I left with was that he wasn't just your stereotypical nerd, but even more of a nerd than that!

One story in particular stayed with me - she described how he had terrible hay fever, so during the summer he would wear a gas mask when ever he was outside, including while he was cycling in and out of work in Bletchly Park. No one was allowed to talk about what happened in there, so on seeing Turing, some locals concluded that it must be a mad house!

Turing WAS a nerd - he was an uber-nerd, and there is nothing what so ever wrong wit that!

B.
 

hanssolo

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Generally, if you prefer a spoiled movie to no movie at all, then you might be happy about this one.
But also, Hollywood always prefers to change interesting stories and make them watered down, illogical and sugar coated. The results are mostly not satisfactory... at least to me.
 

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I'm not all that familiar with the historic Turing or his life, personality, background or activities. I know only the broad outline of his life and of the story portrayed in the film.

As a film, I found it very thought-provoking and satisfying. I'm quite happy that it wasn't a documentary, which it appears is the only thing that would have satisfied Caryl. I thought Benedict Cumberbatch did an excellent job portraying a historical character; whether the portrayal was historically accurate or not is less important to me than the sense I got of his brilliance, eccentricity, and naivety, which to me is what movies are intended for.

I understand that arguments can be made for what degree of historical inaccuracy is acceptable in a film like this. In that respect, and assuming Caryl's account is correct, I would agree that the character of Denniston was dealt an injustice, but I don't see anything else in his account that matters greatly to me.
 
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Urban

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It might be worthwhile to add one more thing to what I said above. I can't recall a single scene portraying any sort of gay relationship in the movie (there could have been something I don't remember); Turing's homosexuality, while an important plot point, was dealt with entirely in the dialog. Possibly that's why others might have found something lacking, but I personally didn't miss it.
 

bigsal

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I state that I have not yet seen the film, but as is often the case, the judgment of a film can be influenced by expectations that you had before the vision.

Personally I have had many disappointments, for my expectations towards films of interest, particularly those historians and mythological, subjects that I particularly like.

Perhaps the biggest disappointment had from watching a movie was "Troy".
 

Ioanna

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Sorry Gorgik I have not seen the movie and do not really understand what you're talking anyway (my translator gives me no satisfaction) I have a busy day behind and the only thing I can answer here is a photo that I hope you love from pasolini :vangelo di secondo matteo....

 

gorgik9

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I state that I have not yet seen the film, but as is often the case, the judgment of a film can be influenced by expectations that you had before the vision.

Personally I have had many disappointments, for my expectations towards films of interest, particularly those historians and mythological, subjects that I particularly like.

Perhaps the biggest disappointment had from watching a movie was "Troy".

Concerning Wolfgang Petersen's Troy (2004) I totally agree with you Sal; I mean Brad Pitts body and face is always really nice to look at, but otherwise it's a silly, boring and pompous fuckin' movie. And the more you know about Homer & the Homeric Epics (the Iliad+ the Odyssey) the worse it gets.

I actually had the opportunity to watch "The Imitation Game" thanks to one of my great film buff friends, and in my opinion it's worse than bad. So bad I didn't think it was possible - but it's not Benedict Cumberbatch fault. If the writers and director hand shit and poop to the actors, it's not the actors fault if the end result becomes - shit. And poop.

I'll get back on this matter with a longer text later; probably not tomorrow since I've got too much to do tomorrow, but maybe the day after tomorrow.
 

gorgik9

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As I said a couple of days ago, since I've had the opportunity to watch "The Imitation Game" - three times - and found Christian Caryl's criticism totally to the point, but I will also scold myself that what I wrote in my introductory post could give someone the impression that Benedict Cumberbatch is to blame and that Turing's nerdiness is the movies big problem.

It is not. The problems of this movie are a lot more fundamental and serious. The problem is, that Cumberbatch and the other actors have been handed shit by producers, writer and director.

Urban has pointed out, that this movie isn't a documentary, it's a biopic. Sure, absolutely. But my ripost on Caryl's and my own behalf is this: imagine a biopic on Frank Kameny, the man who started the modern gay movement in the early 60s in the US, and imagine that in this movie Kameny is implicitly portraid as being a pedophile, and his pedophilia caused by his male homosexuality.

Then would it be an acceptable defence - Well it isn't a documentary anyway, it's just a biopic! Lighten up!

It's that bad. Almost that bad.

There are a handfull of scenes in the movie, that tells you what kind of story will be told:

1) Turing's first meeting with Alastair Denniston (7 min 40 sec)
This will be the story of the epic clash between Stupidass Fuck (Commander Denniston) and Brilliant Math Genious (Turing).

But Denniston wasn't a stupid idiot and - actually it wasn't Turing who was the original breaker of the Enigma code and not the inventor of the so-called Bombe-machine.

The original Enigma code breaker was a group of brilliant cryptanalysts working for the Polish government with Marian Rajewski as their leader, who had been reading Enigma-documents since 1932, and the first generation of Bombe were constructed in 1938.

But as we all know, serious political shit started happening in Europe, and from early 1939 on, the German military made some important improvements on Enigma that made the code much more difficult to brake.

Rajewski and the Polish government realized that they needed much bigger resources to get on with the new type of Enigma, and hence, invited Polands British and French allies in june 1939 to learn some lessons from the Polish cryptologist. Leading the small British group to debrief Marian Rajewski was commander Alistair Denniston. Who definitely wasn't stupid as fuck.

And there was another difficult problem. Enigma wasn't a single thing. Not only had the Germans made some important innovations in the basic construct around 1939, but there were three different versions of the military Enigma - Army, Air Force and Naval - of which Naval Enigma was by far the most difficult to breake.

The film tells a totally bogus story telling you that Turing and the Bletchley group didn't have any success until in the year 1941. Thats bullshit! Thanks to the brilliant work already done by Rejewski and all hard work by the Turing-group, they had lots of success - with Army and Air Force Enigma. But starting cracking the Naval Enigma had to wait to 1941.

2) Young Turing bullied at Shereborne School (24 min 30 sec)
This scene gives some important implicit ad-on to the Turing character - this young genious is a GAY SISSY genious, viciously bullied by the brutal school jocks putting him under the class room floor, as if in a coffin. Or closet.

So the Turing boy is a boy with a secret. A dangerous shameful secret.

But you might question how much of a secret being homo was in Turings university collegue - King's Collegue, Cambridge - in the the 1930s : Wittgenstein was homo and CD Broad, who was dean of the philosophy institution, was not only homo but making homoerotic pass in 1939 on a young brilliant student from Finland, Georg Henrik von Wright, who wasn't homo at all, but would become Witthensteins successor in Cambridge.

Other brilliant homos were John Maynard Keynes, and of course Guy Burgess and Anthony Blunt, two of the infamous Cambridge Five spying for Sovjet.

And the Bloomsbury group had it's own gay kernel, the Bloomsbuggers: John Maynard Keynes, EM Forster, Lytton Strachey and Duncan Grant.

3) Turing understands that Cairncross is the Sovjet spy traitor (1h 27 min 45 sec) but MI6 boss Stuart Menzies revels that he has known all along (1h 29 min 45 sec).

In the movie, one of the persons in the Bletchley group is John Cairncross, who was a Sovjet spy. In the 1h 27min scene, this insight dawns on Turing, who threatens Cairncross that he will tell Denniston. No you won't, says Cairncross, because if you tell on my secret, then I'll tell on yours - and you know what they do to homosexuals, don't you!

So Turing gets scared, and for a moment it seems Turing-the-hero will become Turing-the-traitor, since his homo identity seems to be more important than his countrys wellfare.

But in the 1h 29min scene, MI6 straight heterodaddy boss Stuart Menzies saves the day since he has been in the know from the very beginning that Cairncross is the bad spy apple.

So now we know, that while Turing might be a math genious, he's also a very weak moral character prepared to betray his country BECAUSE OF his homosexuality.

But behind homo genious Turing is the true heterodaddy smartass Menzies. The kind of men that saves the world.

Well what's the problem?
There was a guy named John Cairncross who was a Sovjet spy and who worked in Bletchley Park. But most probably he never even met Turing there. Bletchley was a big place where several tusand people worked and the non-existant meeting between Turing is entirely constructed in the screenwriters and directors homophobic imagination.

Do you like apples? Do you like homophobic apples? I don't.
 

jaypath

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I initially thought of watching the movie. But after reading comments and criticisms, I changed my mind.
 

gb2000ie

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I initially thought of watching the movie. But after reading comments and criticisms, I changed my mind.

You should watch it so you can make up your own mind - don't let others tell you what you should think or like!

B.
 

bigsal

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I initially thought of watching the movie. But after reading comments and criticisms, I changed my mind.

Is a decision rather original. So you can never know if they are more correct the criticism positive or negative, which however are always a thing subjective.
 

Urban

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I initially thought of watching the movie. But after reading comments and criticisms, I changed my mind.

Unfortunately, jaypath brings up a good point, as did bigsal above and also earlier on (p 1).

Maybe other people are not like me, but I rarely read a review of a movie before I go to see it, and I certainly would not read anything with a "Warning: Contains Spoilers" disclaimer (which IMO should have preceded both Caryl's original article and gorgik9's comments, and probably mine too, which I apologize for). All I want to know about a movie before I see it is the bare outline of the plot and who's in it (because I'm less likely to like a movie with big name stars in it -- call me a snob if you want).

Sadly, I think it would be almost impossible for anyone who has read the above comments, or Caryl's article, to watch the movie unbiased. It's a pity, because I'll reiterate that I found it quite satisfying.

Since I'm already here, I'd like to say just one more thing: I don't think the movie is one bit homophobic. What it does is reflect the homophobia of the time and place where the action takes place, and apparently it does that rather well. Whether the scene is historically accurate or not is irrelevant to me, and I don't think it reflects at all on Turing's character. I would have been utterly terrified if that had happened to me in 1940s London, and I can't honestly say how I would have reacted; and raising that sort of question in my mind is what I want a movie to do.
 

gorgik9

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Unfortunately, jaypath brings up a good point, as did bigsal above and also earlier on (p 1).

Maybe other people are not like me, but I rarely read a review of a movie before I go to see it, and I certainly would not read anything with a "Warning: Contains Spoilers" disclaimer (which IMO should have preceded both Caryl's original article and gorgik9's comments, and probably mine too, which I apologize for). All I want to know about a movie before I see it is the bare outline of the plot and who's in it (because I'm less likely to like a movie with big name stars in it -- call me a snob if you want).

Sadly, I think it would be almost impossible for anyone who has read the above comments, or Caryl's article, to watch the movie unbiased. It's a pity, because I'll reiterate that I found it quite satisfying.

Since I'm already here, I'd like to say just one more thing: I don't think the movie is one bit homophobic. What it does is reflect the homophobia of the time and place where the action takes place, and apparently it does that rather well. Whether the scene is historically accurate or not is irrelevant to me, and I don't think it reflects at all on Turing's character. I would have been utterly terrified if that had happened to me in 1940s London, and I can't honestly say how I would have reacted; and raising that sort of question in my mind is what I want a movie to do.
I think I can see your point in your well written post, but I don't agree. Why does the writer have to almost make Turing a traitor? Because he had to "save" his own silly plot; the Cairncross-subplot is all about "saving" the main plot.
But let's agree on a friendly disagreement!
 

W!nston

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The movie is worthy of viewing and it will raise awareness about Turing and his contributions and persecution even though I found it a disappointment on some level.

I do recommend it to anyone who has not seen it :)
 
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