LGBT rights (or lack there of) in Saudi Arabia -time for santions?

[reasek1]

I spotted this on Wiki:

After President George W. Bush's two visits to Saudi Arabia in 2008—which was the first time a U.S. president visited a foreign country twice in less than four months—and King Abdullah's three visits to the US—2002, 2005 and 2008—the relations have surely reached their peak. The two nations have expanded their relationship beyond oil and terrorism. For example, King Abdullah has allocated funds for young Saudis to study in the United States.

One of the most important reasons that King Abdullah has given full scholarships to young Saudis is to give them western perspective and to impart a positive impression of Saudi Arabia on the American people (Alslemy, 2008). On the other hand, President Bush discussed the world economic crisis and what the U.S.–Saudi relationship can do about it (Tabassum, 2008). During meetings with the Saudis, the Bush Administration took the Saudi policies very seriously because of their prevalent economic and defensive presence in the region and its great media influence on the Islamic world (Al Obaid 2007). By and large, the two leaders have made many decisions that deal with security, economics, and business aspects of the relationship, making it in the top of its fame.
Wiki article: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi_Arabia–United_States_relations#Allegations_of_funding_terrorism

Obama visited the King's Palace to pay homage earlier just this year.

However, on the LGBT front:

LGBT rights in Saudi Arabia are unrecognized. Homosexuality is frequently a taboo subject in Saudi Arabian society and is punished with imprisonment, fines, corporal punishment, capital punishment, whipping/flogging, and chemical castrations.
Wiki article: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Saudi_Arabia

Time for sanctions? :thinking:

 

[dargelos]

Not very likely. Saudi has a human rights record as bad as any of the world's hellholes but they control the world oil price. Keeping the price of petrol down is far more important to voters than gay rights or womans rights or any other liberal cause. Sanctions are not going to happen while the west is still addicted to oil.

 

[garth33]

The oil sands of Saudi Arabia are not infinite...they will dry up eventually. There are many other sources and options these days with more coming and these knuckle-dragger countries will have to change or wither on the vine.

 

[garth33]

PS - My PITS get extra sweaty and DELICIOUS in the desert heat - which is one way these countries can diversify in a world economy...just sayin'

g

 

[W!nston]

I don't think sanctions would have a positive affect on the plight of Gays around the world. It's not just Muslims who persecute Gays. Christians in Africa do the same as well and Jews everywhere. The Russians, Chinese, Koreans, Mexicans all persecute us. America ain't no bed of roses but compared to most of the world it's a Gay paradise. Religions preach hate against us. Look how the Catholic church behaves in Italy and all over the world.

Sanctions would backfire and probably increase violence against Gays in those countries to be sanctioned. The sanctions against Vlad the Great have accomplished nothing other than increase his resolve to continue his military campaigns to rebuild the former Soviet Union. Gay men in Russia are hiding in fear and just waiting for the militias or police to come take them away. Just like the Nazis.

If the West tried to impose any sanctions on any country for human rights it would fail. It just don't work. I don't know what we can do about any of the violence against us in countries other than Western ones that are changing laws to give us protections against hate crimes and discrimination. We can't really stop the violence committed against us daily, hourly. We can just press charges after the fact and hope for some justice from time to time.

Life is cruel to all of us I suppose. Humans are the cruelest of all animals. We need to evolve into a better species. Yeah, right. Don't hold your breath.

 

[bigsal]

Among the Arabs young sent to study in the USA, there were also those who conceived and carried out the attacks of September 11.

Unfortunately, people have short memories and have forgotten that most of the attackers were Saudis, and that no one has ever thanked Mr Bush for this.

The absurd thing is that the United States bombed and occupied Afghanistan and Iraq, but against Saudi Arabia was not raised not even a half-hearted protest from Washington.

Many people still ignore that Saudi Arabia is among the largest lenders Isis.
There is every reason to bomb Riyadh, or No?

 

[dargelos]

If America had took advantage of it's technical superiority to start seriously developing non carbon energy supplies say 40 years ago, they wouldn't be in fear of the Saudis now so they could be dropping bombs on Riyadh. The electric car has a long way to go before the west can drag countries like this out of the thirteenth century.

 

[Dendood]

We're going to bomb our way to bliss? Wash your mouth out with soap.

Unfortunately the human race is a cruel and fearful lot. Thousands of years of evolution and we still can't get it right. There may be a time and place for sanctions but this is not it. It will be a long, slow road to equality in much of the world. Change will and must come from every possible direction. But one potential equalizer is staring us all in the face: The Internet.

The early Church knew he who controls the Media controls the world. This is the reason so many countries try to block internet access. They know if the people behind the wall got a look at the rest of the world, minds change.

If people around the globe have greater contact with the outside world through the Internet, they will realize there are other possibilities. Other ways of being. Other ways of thinking. The best thing the Gay community can do through the web is be a force for positive, life affirming values. There are people tucked away in difficult places, Mississippi, Kiev, you name it, who come here and discover porn as well as a community.

We are good people.
There is better.
We love and we bleed and we dream and we are strong in heart and will.
We do not lust for bombs or war or killing as a means to an end.
We stand before Russians, Christians, Jews, Arabs, Africans, Conservatives, Chinese people as a living witness to human potential.
Be Gay.
And fierce about it.


(Which as my Act Up brothers have taught, sometimes involves a little saber rattling.)

We should be a voice for our own stories. And a voice for those in Russia and elsewhere who cannot be a voice of their own. Help elect political leaders who share our values. And keep them aware of the plight of Gays around the world.

 

[mosaik]

I think there is too much use of sanctions to try to impose your own beliefs on other countries. It is hard to know where to draw the line. Should Hindus impose sanctions on beef eating countries, and the USA on France for eating horses?

 

[dargelos]

Ok I'll eat the soap. Read on it's own it did sound like it was condoning more war. I meant to amplify bigsal's point that the west feels free to attack certain countries such as Afghanistan and Iraq while it is afraid to say boo to another country such as Saudi Arabia which is scarcely any better. Could is not the same as should. Military action that kills masses of civilians is not an answer to any problem. Sorry for not being clear about that.

 

[Sinnerr]

I've read an interesting book last year (althought I was released 2001 or 2002 already). It's called "Inside the Kingdom" written by Carmen bin Laden - former wife of one from many Ossama's brothers.
I think it's very interesting for those who would like to know more about this society and their mentality.

 

[bigsal]

Ok I'll eat the soap. Read on it's own it did sound like it was condoning more war. I meant to amplify bigsal's point that the west feels free to attack certain countries such as Afghanistan and Iraq while it is afraid to say boo to another country such as Saudi Arabia which is scarcely any better. Could is not the same as should. Military action that kills masses of civilians is not an answer to any problem. Sorry for not being clear about that.

Of course I understood that yours was just a provocation. Unfortunately, many fail to read between the lines.
My message instead told a sad truth and one of the many contradictions of the warlords.

It still has to pass a lot of water under the bridge before that Saudi Arabia becomes a democratic country. In this regard, I am very pessimistic. Is much more likely that the human race destroys itself before this happens.

Another thing that people forget or prefer to ignore, who the main places of Islamic worship, are all in Saudi Arabia.

Have you any idea how many pilgrims every year go to Saudi Arabia? Millions! And all these people are not hosted free.
This is a great deal better than oil, because it is a inesaurilibile a source of profit.

Have you ever wondered why Saudi Arabia finances the Isis who fights against the Arab countries governed secularly.
I leave the answer to your intelligence.

On this the White House has never expressed his disappointment, indeed ... this is considered one of the States more "friend".

Strange that Mr. Bush or other leaders have never thought of "exporting" a bit of democracy in this country.

 

[bigsal]

I've read an interesting book last year (althought I was released 2001 or 2002 already). It's called "Inside the Kingdom" written by Carmen bin Laden - former wife of one from many Ossama's brothers.
I think it's very interesting for those who would like to know more about this society and their mentality.

Even better is the doentary film by Michael Moore "Fahrenheit 9/11".

Too bad that the majority of Americans did not see it, on the contrary, has been heavily criticized especially by people who have not even seen the film.