Nobel Price - Bob Dylan

[Shelter]

I don't know how you are feeling. For me it was very surprising that Bob Dylan was honored with the Nobel Price for Literature. Well - about that you can have these or that opinion.

But the to my mind scandalous disregard of the Nobel Committee for a long time incapacitate Dylan totally.

And now he is propelling his indifference towards his award to an new sassy climax while he is declaring not to appear to the ceremony because he has "a bigger fish to fry".

My opinion: Shame on him! To give him this Price was a great mistake!

 

[mikk33]

agreed.
given that Dylan wrote 'Masters of War', a prize from Alfred Nobel the dynamite manufacturer should be rejected outright.
if he accepts he may make an anti-war speech?

 

[gorgik9]

In my homecountry Sweden the 10 December is always Nobel Day, the day when the Nobel Prize Laureates come to recieve their prizes in Stockholm Concert Hall in the afternoon and go to the fantastic Nobel Banquet in Stockholm City Hall in the evening - that is: if the laureate is personally present on this day. But there's no statute formally demanding that he/she must be present on this day.

My day has to a large part been about watching the Award Ceremony in the afternoon and the Banquet in the evening on Swedish TV, and much of the very best and the most moving things today has been about Bob Dylan, starting with former secretary of the Swedish Academys professor Horace Engdahl speech about the laureate for Literature.

It's an absolutely brilliant speech, starting 55 minutes 50 seconds into the following YT clip and ending at 62 minutes 30 seconds and simultaneous translated into English. Engdahl's speech was followed by the most moving thing in the afternoon, Patti Smith's performance of A Hard Rain Is Gonna Fall starting in 63 minutes 10 seconds.



The last part of the evening banquet is when the laureates step up to do their speech after the dinner is finished. Dylan had written the most wonderful and brilliant speech possible, and contacted the US Ambassador in Stockholm to read it, and I can vouch for that the present Ambassador is a really good speaker on a par with Dylan's speech.

Some people like to say that Dylan has shown "scandalous disregard of the Nobel Committee" and have been "propelling his indifference towards his award".

This is so not the case, and since he has promised he will come to the Swedish Academy in 2017 to deliver his Nobel Lecture he will have done the thing he has to do.

"Scandalous disregard"? "Indifference"?

Stop this unfounded thrashing.

 

[gb2000ie]

Firstly, I think it is very important to separate art from the artists. You can be a grade-A asshole and a world-class artist at the same time.

Wagner is probably the best example - a hateful biggot who helped inspure the Nazis, and yet, a great artist. I detest Wagner the man, but I greatly admire his work.

The Nobel Prizes are not popularity contests. They are not awards for your personality. They are awards recognising your WORK.

Take Dylan the man out of your mind, and just look at his entire opus of work. Is it not a very impressive collection of first-rate word-smithing? I certianly think it is.

So, I think the prise is merrited.

As for Dylan not showing up for it. Well - first and foremost, he never asked for it! It's not like he sent in a application, won, and then refused to turn up!

He was slow in accepting the award, presumably because he's very torn about it. And the harshest criticism I think is justified is that after his initial provarocation, he eventually made the decision to accept, and should have follow through on that.

To make things personal for a second - I have a lot more respect for people who choose to scorn honours than those who do what ever they can to aquire them!

If people want to pretend that in todays world, with all the important shit that's going on, that THIS, THIS of all things, deserves the title "scandal", they are free to do so, but they'll get nothing from me but a derisive laugh at their complete lack of perspective!

B.

 

[gb2000ie]

agreed.
given that Dylan wrote 'Masters of War', a prize from Alfred Nobel the dynamite manufacturer should be rejected outright.
if he accepts he may make an anti-war speech?

I don't think you understand the Nobel prizes AT ALL!!!

The Nobel Prize is literally Nobel's penance for having made his money on something he later realised was evil. The Nobel Prizes don't celebrate war, they are a manifest condemnation of it - ill gotten gains given away in such a way that they can continue to be a force for good through the centuries.

Nobel would welcome an anti-war speech if here alive today!

B.

 

[sammyyummy]

Dylan wins the Nobel Prize for Literature.
I can't wait for Stephen King and JK Rowling to get inducted in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.​

 

[Shelter]

Dylan wins the Nobel Prize for Literature.
I can't wait for Stephen King and JK Rowling to get inducted in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.​

:thumbs up::thumbs up::thumbs up:

 

[haiducii]

What is funny is he is getting wildly more attention rejecting the honor than he ever would have if he just accepted it. What can be more important than picking up a Nobel Prize? :thinking: According to the Swedish Academy's website, if you visit the Academy in Stockholm, they give you cookies. Dylan is missing out!

 

[Shelter]

@Gorgik9 and GB2000ie
I can't really reconstruct, why both of you are swing at me in this angry way.
Both of you have totally misunderstood what I've said. Both of you unanimously defend the artistic Bob Dylan. OK - but where in my post I've attacked the artist Bob Dylan? I can't read anything about that and I never would do that because I like the songs of Dylan as well.

And GB200ie you boiled it down to an essence with your example of Richard Wagner.

Wagner is probably the best example - a hateful biggot who helped inspure the Nazis, and yet, a great artist. I detest Wagner the man, but I greatly admire his work.

It is my opinion. I appreciate very much the artist Dylan and also I admire his work.

But what I have said, and what both of you have overlooked in your anger, is, that I'm upset about his complacent behaviour. To be a great artist must not immediatedly imply good behaviour. And his very good written and from others deliverd speech is not the same as if he would have done it by himself. Once more in my opinion: bad behaviour!

And another question to GB2000ie: you have written

To make things personal for a second - I have a lot more respect for people who choose to scorn honours than those who do what ever they can to aquire them!

Will I understand it correct, that you all Nobel Laureates now and in the past with this words denigrate as "people who do whatever they can to aquire the Nobel Price"? That would be a shame too, but perhaps I've in this case misunderstand yourself because of the language barrier.

Nonetheless once more to all: I have never tried to make Bob Dylan down as an artist - never ever! But I can't and I don't understand his behaviour in this case. It feels for me as if he is out of touch with reality.

 

[gorgik9]

This is mostly @ haiducii & Shelter.

Haiducii has the idea that Dylan is "rejecting the honours" to get more attention than he would if he just accepted. Excuse me, but you're mixing up Dylan with Jean-Paul Sartre, who got the Nobel Prize for Literature in 1964 and - rejected it. The next year Sartre came back to the Swedish Academy and sheepishly asked if he couldn't get his money anyway. The answer - of course - was a firm NO. If you've publicly rejected the prize you can't have your money anyway. But Dylan hasn't rejected anything.

Shelter protests that he hasn't attacked the artist Bob Dylan, but just "his behaviour in this case". Well, excuse me my dear friend - as far as I can see, I never said you attacked Dylan's artistic work, but I was attacking your own attack just on "his behaviour".

What "behaviour"? Remember that he's an elderly gentleman - yes, 75 years old - but almost constantly touring the world and having a lot of people - musicians, technicians etc. - dependant on him. Maybe an unforseen trip to Stockholm around 10 December would make a lot of trouble for dozens of others? Maybe he was just being considerate?

As I've already said there's no formal demand from the Nobel Foundation or the Swedish Academy that Bob Dylan or any other Nobel Laureate MUST be present at the Award Ceremony - this is a non-existant demand made up by different busybodies...

The Nobel Foundation just recently posted Dylan's brilliant Banquet Speech; here's a link to it:
Anon URL

 

[gb2000ie]

@shelter - you did not say that Dylan did not deserve the award, but others here did. The bit that doesn't match what you said was not aimed at you!

And yes, you did misunderstand me.

There are people in this world who find winning a prise or an award uncomfortable. They don't seek honours, they don't look for them, and they squrim when you compliment them.

There are also people on this planet who can't get enough of the spotlight - who seek out awards and glory.

In my experience, the first category are much more admirable than the second, and probably more deserving of things like a Nobel Prize.

The second category tend to be assholes - the most obvious example of the class would be the president-elect of the USA. A man who craves praise and honours, but deserves none!

I prefer people like Dylan who scoff at awards than people like Trump who seek them out.

I also really don't think Dylan did anything particuarlly bad here. By all accounts his letter was very thoughtfully written, and he has arranged to come over to Sweden in 2017 to deliver a speech in person.

It's not that he went there, pullsed his pants down, and shat on the king's crown!

B.

 

[gb2000ie]

Disgraceful. These pop stars have no respect for their elders and betters. Nobody wants to listen to a singer with a voice like sand and glue anyway. You can't even dance to his dismal tunes. Take the prize back off him and give it to a songwriter with real talent, someone who will show a bit of gratitude, give it to Barry Manilow.

I guess there is simply no accounting for taste!

B.

 

[gb2000ie]

I understand that the Nobel is a big deal - more so in Sweden - but it is also not a competition. As far as I know, Dylan didn't apply to win it, it was bestowed upon him without application (or consultation) from him. As such, there isn't the obligation to attend and accept. And he probably doesn't need the money.

Why get knickers in a twist over it? Still plenty of folks trying to wrap their heads around his getting the Award in the first place. He may even be one of them.

EXACTLY - you are right - it is not a competition, and he did not apply.

B.

 

[haiducii]

Haiducii has the idea that Dylan is "rejecting the honours" to get more attention than he would if he just accepted. Excuse me, but you're mixing up Dylan with Jean-Paul Sartre, who got the Nobel Prize for Literature in 1964 and - rejected it.

I'm sorry, I probably wasn't clear enough.

Dylan has not rejected the prize nor he is intended to do it as far as I know. He was not attending the ceremony, for whatever reason.

The only question that remains, in my view, is whether or not they chose Dylan hoping that he would react this way. They're certainly getting a lot of press and attention from this whole thing.

 

[Shelter]

I'm sorry, I probably wasn't clear enough.
The only question that remains, in my view, is whether or not they chose Dylan hoping that he would react this way. They're certainly getting a lot of press and attention from this whole thing.

Here you may be on the right path. But is the Nobel Committee really in need of that? :thinking:

 

[Giangiacomo]

I think the problem here is Shelter's limited English that doesn't say what he later says it said and is largely incomprehensible. I don't think anyone is attacking him, but trying to respond to how he or she has interpreted Shelter's original statement.
People need to check what they write and make sure it says what they want, politely, before becoming offended by replies, that can also be difficult to understand because of the English.

 

[Shelter]

Wow - honestly is my English here really so totally incomprehensible for all of you?

Until now I've always tried to check what I write, and I always have had the holy hope that everything I've written here made sure that it says what I wanted to say.

Truly I'm not a perfect English writer or speaker - that's something I know. But if I'm really so totally incomprehensible - I'll be quiet from now on.

And a last thing: perhaps you will be so very kind and translate for me your following words: Shelter's limited English that doesn't say what he later says it said and is largely incomprehensible.

Sorry that I've insulted your fluent good English.

 

[gorgik9]

Wow - honestly is my English here really so totally incomprehensible for all of you?

Until now I've always tried to check what I write, and I always have had the holy hope that everything I've written here made sure that it says what I wanted to say.

Truly I'm not a perfect English writer or speaker - that's something I know. But if I'm really so totally incomprehensible - I'll be quiet from now on.

And a last thing: perhaps you will be so very kind and translate for me your following words: Shelter's limited English that doesn't say what he later says it said and is largely incomprehensible.

Sorry that I've insulted your fluent good English.

No I definitely don't think you're "totally incomprehensible" or at least not more incomprehensible than myself :blushing:

We both share the same predicament: neither you nor me have English as our native language, just like thousands of other GH members. It's just unavoidable that your writing will sometimes be tinged with Germanisms, just as my writing sometimes will be tinged with Scandinavianisms.

And I really don't think our friendly disagreement in this thread had anything to do with any "incomprehensibility" - just a straight forward disagreement of the milder sort.

 

[Shelter]

Thank you Gorgik9 for your kind comprehension in this "difficult" case.

And my dear friend believe me: disagreement in this topic or in whatever topics ever doesn't mean enmity - not for me, and I guess so, not for you.

You must know we have many very good friends and I mean really good friends which we are knowing since many years. And from time to time all of us we will meet and we have very passionate discussions (I like these discussions). And very often we are in a dissent about this or that topic. But these disagreements doesn't mean that we will depart as fierce enemies. An honest and true friendship will endure such disagreements.

Well, now I hope this was not overly "incomprehensible because of my limited English". -