Out of any Mega-Thread

[warp9]

There are Muslims, who don't agree :

​

 

[gb2000ie]

Not exactly the most PC language - but the passion is clear.

 

[Shelter]

He said what Sniffit or myself had said in this other thread. Will he now be incriminated to be a "Islamophobic" or a "Xenophobic" or a "Racist" or an "Anti-Semit"?????

 

[gb2000ie]

He said what Sniffit or myself had said in this other thread. Will he now be incriminated to be a "Islamophobic" or a "Xenophobic" or a "Racist" or an "Anti-Semit"?????

I think you may want to go back and re-read what it is in that thread that people took exception to - this guy didn't make sweeping generalisations about Islam, or imply that murder is 'fundamental to Islam' as was argued by some in that thread. On the contrary, he made the point I was making, that most Muslims are not terrorists, and that murder in the name of Allah is not normal in Islam.

Also - saying that extremists shouldn't come to France is VERY different to saying Muslims should not come to the west, or that the west should close their borders to all Islamic countries.

As a general rule, if you avoid sweeping generalisations, you won't get accused of any isms. This chap didn't make any sweeping generalisations, so who, exactly, should he get in trouble for generalising about?

B.

 

[W!nston]

I worked in the medical profession for 35 years in mental health and geriatric care. I had the pleasure of working with many people who were Muslims. There was never any reason to distrust them. I still don't. But I knew them on a personal level.

The passages in the Qur'an about killing infidels that I referred to in the other thread are not something I made up. They are the basis for the attack in Paris. There are Muslim clerics who preach these things. They have called for jihad against the infidels. These extremist movements are not likely to negotiate for peace except in accordance with the teachings of the Qur'an.

I guess if I make 'sweeping generalizations' about things that I see, read or hear it may be the result of my emotions momentarily overpowering my judgment and I apologize for that.

I'd like to point out that many people in these discussion threads make 'sweeping generalizations' about all Americans based on the actions of the American government. I don't recall seeing much if any defense of the Americans. But hey, it's all good...

 

[warp9]

He said what Sniffit or myself had said in this other thread. Will he now be incriminated to be a "Islamophobic" or a "Xenophobic" or a "Racist" or an "Anti-Semit"?????

Here is a Muslim talking to Muslims. And he is incriminated because of that by some Muslims. You can read some hateful comments under that post on YT. But there are also agreements from other Muslims.

The thing is : The world is colored. Not black and white or grey.

The other thing is : p.e. a black guy calls other black guys "Nigger". I've seen and heard it often enough. But if a white guy calls a black guy like that, he is maybe a racist.
So there is a totally difference if a Muslim says to other Muslims : "Fuck off" or if we say that. And, btw, it's a little more courageously.

The reason why I posted this here and not in the other thread is simple :
Some comments there are just hateful, annoying, disrespectful and insulting.
I will delete any comment like that in this thread.

 

[Shelter]

The reason why I posted this here and not in the other thread is simple :
Some comments there are just hateful, annoying, disrespectful and insulting.
I will delete any comment like that in this thread.

:agree::agree::agree::agree:

And tell me why it isn't possible here or wherever to lead a discussion or disputation without verbal assaults or personal aggressions?

 

[gb2000ie]

The passages in the Qur'an about killing infidels that I referred to in the other thread are not something I made up. They are the basis for the attack in Paris. There are Muslim clerics who preach these things. They have called for jihad against the infidels.

No one in any thread ever denied any of that reality. Those passages are there, but, like the bible, there are also passages that say the exact opposite.

The bible is full of hate language commanding believers to murder people for all sorts of silly things. Extremists pick and choose those bits to produce doctor murderers in the US south. The KKK also chose those bits to justify horrific acts of terrorism.

In the west we don't tend to associate the worst parts of the bible with every Christian, but some in the west do tend to associate the worst part of the Qur'an with every Muslim.

There was some of that on display in the thread in question, and people challenged it.

These extremist movements are not likely to negotiate for peace except in accordance with the teachings of the Qur'an.

Negotiating with terrorists is a terrible tactic. I'm sure someone somewhere is arguing for it, but I didn't see that anywhere in the thread in question.

You need to isolate terrorists, not negotiate with them. In other words, you need to be sure that that majority of Muslims who are good law-abiding people know there is a place for them in our societies.

Also - you need to isolate them from money and materials. It didn't get much press, but a big change brought on by 9-11 is new international banking treaties that make it very hard for terrorists to bank. That has really crimped their style. Notice the move from big spectaculars like 9-11 towards low-budget stuff like Paris - I think the banking changes played a big part in that. Sure, it's boring dry stuff, but that actually makes it better because terrorists can't even use it for propaganda.

I guess if I make 'sweeping generalizations' about things that I see, read or hear it may be the result of my emotions momentarily overpowering my judgment and I apologize for that.

I hate how text-only media lose all the tone from your words - I mean this with utter sincerity - *hats off to you sir* - internet apologies are rare.

I'd like to point out that many people in these discussion threads make 'sweeping generalizations' about all Americans based on the actions of the American government. I don't recall seeing much if any defense of the Americans. But hey, it's all good...

If a defence goes un-made, make it!

I can only speak for myself, but I TRY to focus my criticisms on organisations, institutions, or systems, and not on the general population, but I may well fail from time to time - when I do, draw my attention to it so I can correct myself and apologise.

B.

 

[W!nston]

The man in the video of the original post in this thread is very brave in my opinion. He is also now in jeopardy of reprisals from those who orchestrate attacks such as the one in Paris.

If only more Muslims would speak out against the jihadist movement it might start a sea-change in the politics of their religious leaders and that might hasten an end to the extremists power.

Change does happen as is evidenced by the swift progress toward Gay Marriage equality and Gay Rights in general in the USA and other Western countries in recent months and years. Once a tipping point is reached the tide is unstoppable.

Thank you for your sincere words B. As you said "internet apologies are rare" so "*hats off to you sir*".

Sniffit

 

[warp9]

If only more Muslims would speak out against the jihadist movement it might start a sea-change in the politics of their religious leaders and that might hasten an end to the extremists power.

Don't you know ? They do ! And a lot of Imams in some countries as well. But in that Sunnites- and Shiiteswar (and not only there) no one will listen

Shiites against Sunnites in Yemen

Sunnites against Shiites in Iraq and Syria

Some of them against the Jews In Belgium

Some of them against the caricatures in the Western civilization

Some of them against the Western civilization (but that might be "our" own fault)

The only thing we can do :

Talk to them, eat with them ... spend some time with them - on an equal footing.

I think, that's the way. But maybe I am romantic even hopelessly - let's see

 

[haiducii]

The only thing we can do : Talk to them, eat with them ... )

May I add: Make LOVE with them

 

[Shelter]

May I add: Make LOVE with them

Haiduccii with this closing remark you are a very clever and heady man. Congratulation! :applause::applause::applause:

 

[warp9]

May I add: Make LOVE with them

Yes you may !

But : depends, which country. Can't do that in Mauritania, Nigeria, Sierra Leone, Sudan, Saudi Arabia, Yemen ... if you love your life. But also not in Barbados, Antigua and Barbuda, Belize, Dominica, Grenada, Jamaica, Trinidad and Tobago ... an endless list between 10 years in Jail or deathpenalty.

But don't let that bring you down - it's just life ... and human beeings :devil:

(If a male dog fucks a male dog no other male dog will punish him.)

 

[gb2000ie]

The man in the video of the original post in this thread is very brave in my opinion. He is also now in jeopardy of reprisals from those who orchestrate attacks such as the one in Paris.

If only more Muslims would speak out against the jihadist movement it might start a sea-change in the politics of their religious leaders and that might hasten an end to the extremists power.

The more Muslims "come out" like this man, the easier it will be for others to follow. I hope we'll hit a tipping point soon, where the few brave become the vocal majority.

Change does happen as is evidenced by the swift progress toward Gay Marriage equality and Gay Rights in general in the USA and other Western countries in recent months and years. Once a tipping point is reached the tide is unstoppable.

A great analogy indeed.

 

[gb2000ie]

May I add: Make LOVE with them

You may - *insert hippie cliché about love and war here*