Philosophical Crap: What Exactly is Gay?

[c750dt]

People here, do more of you think being gay is merely about sex with men or about something deeper; with cultural aspects? Or maybe even a sham or mere title. With stereotypes and general expectation of how a gay would act, gay porn stars who are supposedly not gay but just doing a job, lucrative businesses centered on "gay lifestyle," as well as people who enjoy gay sex but not gay love or vice-versa, do you think maybe these days, the term's taken on a new meaning and to qualify for the title, sexual orientation is merely not enough?

On the flip side, another seemingly cultural aspect is that most fellow gay people I meet, though not all (I'd say over 50% but under 65%), if they know I'm gay, seem to think that means there's a good chance of sex with me. I tend to keep myself reserved and unless I'm specifically looking for a one night stand and am speaking with someone who matches my taste, will typically refuse to talk about sex unless it's with someone I've at least dated a few times. As a result, unless I trust the person and/or it's relevant to the situation, I've decided for people I know are gay but wouldn't want to do anything with, I'm totally straight as far as they know.

I understand every population of people grouped together with a common trait, every bunch of apples, if you will, has a few rottens. However, look at religion; sure there's the likes of the Westboro Baptist Church and Al Queda and Scientology but as far as organized religion goes, whatever the religion may be, hardcore radicals are a mere sliver of the population. However, for gays, whether it be a pride rally, a gay themed club, a gay themed store or something else catering to the gay title, there's almost always plenty of loonies noticable and sex is so prominent and in my face.

I find that to beg another question. If being gay really is mostly about sex preference, then why an organized community? I don't know of others who rally and don an identity based on sex but rather, other groups keep that kind of stuff confined to the bedroom.

I think being gay is kind of a mix. Sex is a big part though at the same time, you're more fit for the title based on love and interest beyond the bedroom. Still, I feel this would make for fun debate material and would like to hear opinion.

 

[jeansGuyOZ]

I consider "gay" as a slang term meaning homosexual, nothing more, nothing less. I certainly don't regard having a particular image, lifestyle, musical taste or dress sense as a requirement. No one expects straight people to conform to a particular type, so I don't understand why gay people should.

The reason why "organised gay communities" evolved was for political reasons, to form support groups to counter prejudice. Later on when being gay becamse more socially accepted, the community included clubs (not just dance clubs) where gay people could meet others with similar interests - sports clubs, religious-based groups, etc. Again, we don't suggest that someone isn't straight just because they don't belong to certain clubs, so the same should hold for gays.

 

[topdog]

People here, do more of you think being gay is merely about sex with men or about something deeper; with cultural aspects? ....

Very thoughtful set of questions! "Gay" can mean different things to different people (as in "That's so gay!"), but I'll assume that when we say gay, we primarily mean someone with a same-sex sexual orientation (i.e., "homosexual"). Of course there is also "Gay Culture", but I think it's important to say right at the start that these are two different things. Sexual orientation is part of the experience of being human; it is something people all over the world experience.

Culture, on the other hand, is specific to a particular group, in a specific location, at a single point in time. Just as an example, when I lived in Los Angeles years ago there were multiple gay cultures - all very different from each other. There were the entertainment industry gays - where social life circled around the movie and recording industries, specific "in" restaurants, and getaways to Maui, Palm Springs, or Las Vegas. There were the older long-term gay couples in Silver Lake where life was private dinner parties and political activity. And then there was West Hollywood, which was "all gay all the time". You could spend your whole day (shopping, cleaners, gym, dog park, restaurants, movies, clubs) and never encounter anyone straight.

So you can't really talk about a single "gay" culture because Atlanta, Pittsburgh, Des Moines, London, and Sydney are all very different. Even in those places the experience is completely different for 20 year olds, 30 year old professional singles, couples, and retired people.

What is Gay?

"But I still get to have sex with men!" - On Will & Grace, Jack's retort to Matt Damon when Matt "comes out" as straight

Yes, being gay is more than having sex with men. As a matter of fact, you can be gay and still be a virgin (!) according to the American Psychological Association:

"Sexual orientation is an enduring emotional, romantic, sexual, or affectional attraction toward others. It is easily distinguished from other components of sexuality including biological sex, gender identity (the psychological sense of being male or female), and the social gender role (adherence to cultural norms for feminine and masculine behavior)."

In other words, gay men are gay, not because they (like Jack McFarland) have sex with men, but because they are sexually attracted to and fall in love with other men. (Most gay kids know or suspect that they are gay long before they experience sex.) So the gay is primarily about "something deeper" (as you put it), rather than sucking and fucking.

We All Need a Little More Culture

... If being gay really is mostly about sex preference, then why an organized community? I don't know of others who rally and don an identity based on sex but rather, other groups keep that kind of stuff confined to the bedroom...

"The first thing you have to know is: It's all about sex." - opening line of Queer as Folk

I don't know what your age is, but I find that gay (as well as straight) culture tends to be more hook-up oriented when you are in your 20's. That mellows out for over-30's as other things (relationship, career, family, politics, religion, a specific circle of friends) become important.

But no matter your age and sexual drive, gays form communities because most of us live in a heterosexual-centric society. By that I mean that everyone assumes that you are straight, unless you say differently. In most of our families and work environments - we are the wierd ones; the exceptions; the misfits. We naturally want to form groups where we are not odd - but the normal people. This has nothing to do with sex. It's more like the primitive desire to be a part of your "tribe".

And it's also part of being gay. The American Psychological Association goes on to say that sexual orientation also refers to a person's sense of "personal and social identity based on those attractions, behaviors expressing them, and membership in a community of others who share them." So the important cultural aspect isn't the fashion, jargon, sex attitudes and activities. It's simply the fact that we seek out our own kind and bond together against the somewhat hostile environment around us.

You Can Get There from Here

"I can see Russia from my house!" - Tina Fey as Sarah Palin on Saturday Night Live

So, the same-old same-old isn't doing it for you? The problem isn't the gay, per se - it's that your cultural circle (the "loonies"?) isn't giving you what you want. The good news is that you can change it. I guarantee you that there are tons of great guys (however you define that) in Atlanta - but they are doing something else on Saturday nights instead of the bars and clubs that you frequent. They are volunteering, or at home with their partner, or at a restaurant with friends, or hooking up through CraigsList, or... [fill in the blank].

Your challenge is to move out of the social group that is no longer working for you and cross paths with people who share your interests and values. And here, the Internet is your friend. Google activities in your area. Maybe try a gay dating site with the idea that even if romance doesn't blossom - maybe you can make a friend that will introduce you to his circle of friends that are more to your liking.

Cheers!

 

[jafo]

It's a stinkin' label... merely a vehicle for one idiot to 'define' someone else, without knowing a thing about them. A rose, by any other name, is still a flower.

You can't take a person's unique drives, wants, fears, loves and hopes and distill that into one word, and then realistically use that to describe someone else. The whole concept is silly. However, it makes SOME people feel better to have stuck you in a pigeonhole so that they can classify you as 'us' or 'not us'.

And I laugh at psychiatrists trying to 'define' us, the American Psychological Association in particular. Hell, those educated idiots were trying to say (at least up until the 1980s) that 'gay' was an aberrant social behavior, as if it's something that they could CURE. Fuck them and their schoolboy labels. I died laughing when I had to take the standard 'psych eval' questionnaire 10 years ago, and one of the earliest questions was "sexual preference?" (my highlight), as if you were asking someone their ICE CREAM PREFERENCE. Oh, gee, I can't have straight, so I'll just have gay sex instead... <rolls around laughing> "Sexual ORIENTATION" would have probably been a better choice of words for that question.

 

[jeansGuyOZ]

I like "sexual preference" as a term. In some ways it's more laid-back and empowering than "sexual orientation", which seems to imply that you have to be only interested in one or the other.

And as for labels, they can be overused, but they also serve a useful purpose in allowing you to describe in one word what would otherwise take half a minute to desscribe. I identify as gay; there are probably many members of this forum who do the same or else perhaps bi, or "bi but mostly gay". If I am in a strange city and want to find a gay nightclub, I would prefer to be able to actually say so rather than "Uhmmm... can you tell me of any dance clubs that attract an open-minded Bohemian clientele? You know... where I meet might another man and have a chat, have a few drinks with him.... not that I'm weird or anything....". Even though "gay" doesn't tell you everything about the person or about the establishment, it's still a useful label at times.

 

[XMan101]

On the flip side, another seemingly cultural aspect is that most fellow gay people I meet, though not all (I'd say over 50% but under 65%), if they know I'm gay, seem to think that means there's a good chance of sex with me.

That's not a gay thing it's a man thing! It happens all the time in hetero situations where any guy thinks they can get a girl because he fancies her regardless of how she feels.

Many gay guys are quite, what for label's sake, you'd call "normal" and carry on with life quietly. It's certain ones you notice, and just the same with straight guys. Men seem to be more openly predatory when it comes to sex, so put a load together who fancy other men and this is what you get - not that I've ever complained )

 

[alexfot55]

Why do we need to explain, analyze, label. We are what we feel, we sense we do and that is all about it.

 

[Casanova]

What's being gay? It's the fact that I enjoy the company, and feel emotionally, and sexually connected with another man.

It has nothing to do with labels or expectations. In fact, I don't have to walk around with a sparkly billboard above my head saying "I'm Here! I'm Queer! Get used to it!"

Being classed as gay is only a tiny portion of my life; accepting myself for who I am, how I look, how I was brought up, where I am today and where I see myself in the future is far more important than a bum-fuck in the dark.

Hell! I am proud I'm gay - and would never change it for the world, but it is only one of the many parts that makes me who I am!