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Pope Francis Met With Kim Davis, Her Lawyers Say

W!nston

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Pope Francis Met With Kentucky Clerk Kim Davis, Her Lawyers Say
YahooNews/ABC News | 09 29 2015 11:45pm

215797999af3b7f9fdb1604045525fc2c46d951b.jpg

Pope Francis Met With Kentucky Clerk Kim Davis, Her Lawyers Say

Kentucky county clerk Kim Davis, who refused to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples, privately met with Pope Francis during his historic trip to the U.S., according to her legal team.

Davis and her husband Joe met with the pope at the Vatican Embassy in Washington, D.C., on Sept. 24, according to a statement from the Liberty Counsel.

Neither the Vatican nor the Apostolic Nunciature in Washington, D.C., have commented on the statement from Davis' legal team.

ABC News' Terry Moran asked Francis Sunday night if he supports individuals, including government officials, who claim religious liberty as a reason to disobey the law.

Francis responded, "I can't have in mind all the cases that can exist about conscientious objection, but, yes, I can say that conscientious objection is a right that is a part of every human right. It is a right. And if a person does not allow others to be a conscientious objector, he denies a right."

When asked if that includes government officials, Francis said, "It is a human right and if a government official is a human person, he has that right. It is a human right."

Earlier this month Davis was jailed for nearly one week after she refused a judge's order to issue marriage licenses in Rowan County, Kentucky, to same-sex and heterosexual couples. When Davis returned to work, she said she wanted her name and title removed from the licenses being issued by her office.

Last week Davis told ABC News' Paula Faris that she feels her Christian beliefs trump her day-to-day responsibilities.

"My constituents elected me. But the main authority that rules my life is the Lord," she said.

Davis' stance has drawn intrigue, reverence, scrutiny and scorn. She has been called Hitler and a homophobe, she said.

"What people say about me does not define who I am. That's everybody's opinion and that's everybody's right," Davis said.

"I've been called things and names that I didn't even say when I was in the world. Those names don't hurt me," Davis added. "What probably hurt me the worst is when someone tells me that my God does not love me or that my God is not happy with me, that I am a hypocrite of a Christian."

SOURCE



Well ... Isn't that special?

Hmm... Let's see now ... who could arrange for Little Miss Kim to make Big Daddy Pope Francis' private parts go all tingley? ... Who could it be? ...




 

topdog

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So, we have a story here put out by her sleazy lawyers, and there is no other confirmation; not from the embassy in DC, or the Vatican? And no picture, apparently. I'm going to wait for an outside source before I comment on this.
 

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It looks like someone just made a comment about that post ... :rofl:


Whether the story is true or not it is still newsworthy. The Liberty Counsel lawyers - the same ones who fabricated the photo of 100,000 Peruvians 'praying' for Miss Kim - have either lied again or there was a meeting with the Pope. Either way it's news. I won't be surprised if this is another fabrication. How can they not be disbarred for these kinds of breaches of the public trust?

Oh well ... there's an old joke - What do you call 1,000 lawyers at the bottom of the Atlantic Ocean? ... A good start.
 
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mrpiz

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Pope Francis will meet with pretty much anyone.
 

W!nston

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Little Miss Kim decided she was a born again Christian 4 years ago after getting all the wild oats available from the local pot-bellied, beer-guzzlin', gun-totin', fag-bashin', gall-darnedest, rootin'-tootin' dregs of society Kentucky had to offer. Last week she decided she weren't no tree-huggin', immigrant-welcomin', fetus-killin', Queer-lovin', Satan-worshipin', ne'er-do-wellin' Democrat so she threw in with the God-fearin', religious-freedom-lovin', law-abidin', tax-payin', Queer-hatin', beer-guzzlin', gun-totin' Republican fellers.

I guess she's about to make another life-style change. Looks like she's done prostrated herself before the altar of the one-and-only, all-knowin', all-seein', all-powerful, second-only-to-the-big-guy-himself Big Daddy Pope Francis of the Barrio!

Once she completes her Catechism she will be eligible for Sainthood! I can see it now. The faithful will be praying to the bones of Our Lady of Perpetual Denial (Gay marriage license denial that is).

I believe religion is the root of all evil in this world. I'm sure some will use their 'pretzel logic' to dispute my opinion but there it is anyway! :D
 
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W!nston

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This Just In ...

How Pope Francis Undermined the Goodwill of His Trip and Proved to Be a Coward
Huffington Post | By Michelangelo Signorile | 09/30/2015 12:39 pm EDT

After first refusing to confirm nor deny it, the Vatican has confirmed that Pope Francis met with the Kentucky clerk Kim Davis at the Vatican Embassy in Washington, where Davis' attorney -- who made the news public after the pope's trip ended -- said Francis told her to "stay strong." And that simple encounter completely undermines all the goodwill the pope created in downplaying "the gay issue" on his U.S. trip.

The pope played us for fools, trying to have it both ways. As I noted last week, he's an artful politician, telling different audiences what they want to hear on homosexuality. He did that in Argentina as a cardinal -- railing against gay marriage when the Vatican expected him to do so -- and he's done that since becoming pope, striking a softer tone on the issue after Benedict's harsh denunciations were a p.r. disaster for the Catholic Church in the West. But this news about Kim Davis portrays him as a more sinister kind of politician. That's the kind that secretly supports hate, ushering the bigots in the back door -- knowing they're an embarrassment -- while speaking publicly about about how none of us can judge one another.

I would have more respect for the pope if he had publicly embraced Kim Davis and made an argument for her, as he did in his visit with the Little Sisters of the Poor, who are battling against filling out a form to exempt themselves from Obamacare's contraception requirement, claiming that even filling out the form violates their religious liberty -- even though I vehemently disagree with the pope on that issue. I'd have more respect if he boldly, explicitly made a public statement (not the vague, general statement he made on his plane on the way home only in response to a reporter's question about Davis), as he did in trying to stop the execution of a Georgia inmate who was put to death this morning. But by meeting with Davis secretly, and then at first having the Vatican neither confirm nor deny the encounter -- and now having the Vatican say it "won't deny" the meeting while it still won't offer any other details -- the pope comes off as a coward.

He shows himself to be antithetical to much of what he preaches and teaches. He talks about dialogue and having the courage of one's convictions and the courage to speak out. But he swept this Davis meeting under the rug, seemingly ashamed and certainly not wanting to broach the subject. Even Davis's supporters should find that insulting to them.

We all knew Francis was playing a p.r. game, and we were fine with that. He was focusing on climate change, immigration and other issues passionate to him -- and certainly I, and I hope everyone, still welcome whatever influence he can have on those issues. And it appeared he viewed the LGBT rights debate as a distraction from a focus on those causes. He even told U.S. bishops in a meeting during his trip that they should stop complaining about it and turn their attention to other issues. The sense was that he was probably not passionate about gay rights, but not passionate about attacking them either.

But by telling Davis that she should "stay strong" -- if her attorney's account of the encounter is to be believed -- the pope is only encouraging the bigots, even if he's doing so quietly. We don't know all the details yet regarding how Davis came to meet Francis -- if, for example, it was one of the more vocally anti-gay U.S. Catholic Church leaders who brought her along, or if the Vatican invited her.

But the optics of it are bad no matter what. Rather than moving us forward on LGBT rights ever so slightly, as many viewed the pope as doing, he now, with this meeting, emboldens the haters in the church who will be pushing to make sure church doctrine continues to call homosexuality "intrinsically disordered." And it sends a message to all those people who've experienced anti-gay discrimination -- like the Catholic school teachers fired from their jobs in the U.S. simply because of who they are -- that this pope is not going to end that discrimination any time soon. Rather than stopping that discrimination, he welcomed, with open arms in the Vatican's own embassy, the bigots who promote that discrimination but who've turned themselves into the victims.

SOURCE
 

gb2000ie

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I believe religion is the root of all evil in this world. I'm sure some will use their 'pretzel logic' to dispute my opinion but there it is anyway! :D

I agree organised religion is involved in a lot of really ugly stuff, and I'm absolutely no fan on it - quite the contrary in fact.

But - I'm not sure it's actually the root of anything - I think it's a vehicle used by those seeking the true roots of all evil - power and greed!

Since it seems the pope really did meet with this woman, I think he made a colossal miss-calculation. Either he ignored his advisers, or he needs new ones!

B.
 

W!nston

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I agree organised religion is involved in a lot of really ugly stuff, and I'm absolutely no fan on it - quite the contrary in fact.

But - I'm not sure it's actually the root of anything - I think it's a vehicle used by those seeking the true roots of all evil - power and greed!

Since it seems the pope really did meet with this woman, I think he made a colossal miss-calculation. Either he ignored his advisers, or he needs new ones!

B.

We can't do it of course but if we could see into the past far enough to the very first HOMO-sapien ancestor that realized they could cast a spell on others if they could convince them the spirits of the dead or some other mystical spirit was on his side he/she could then use that spell to control the minds of others and gain power and wealth we would see the mind control of religion is at the very nexus of power and greed. That's my theory anyway, lol. Laugh at it if you want. I laugh at a lot of theories myself, hehe.

Also, B., it doesn't just 'seem' like da Poh-pa met with Our Lady Kim - the Vatican admits he did so it has moved from the realm of 'seems' to 'did in fact'. :D
 

gb2000ie

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We can't do it of course but if we could see into the past far enough to the very first HOMO-sapien ancestor that realized they could cast a spell on others if they could convince them the spirits of the dead or some other mystical spirit was on his side he/she could then use that spell to control the minds of others and gain power and wealth we would see the mind control of religion is at the very nexus of power and greed. That's my theory anyway, lol. Laugh at it if you want. I laugh at a lot of theories myself, hehe.

I agree with you that religion is at the nexus of power and greed - but religion is just an effective MEANS, not a desired end. Hence, it's not a root.

B.
 

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Nothing new under the sun.

In Italy we have now become accustomed to the constant acrobats Vatican, so this thing for us is business as usual. Today the pope says one thing and the next day the opposite of everything, normal everyday life. but if I were a law-abiding American citizen, I would be very pissed off about this farce and lack of respect for the laws of a state, who It has recently hosted.

But the sad thing is to read some posts in this forum, who defend these snake oil salesmen.
 

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It Gets Better?

Pope Francis Doesn’t Believe in LGBT Equality
TheDailyBeast | By Barbie Latza Nadeau | 09.30.151:30 PM ET

TRUE COLORS

215827366b6878381657b6d82ff3b21e6a6970fc.jpg

The pontiff’s secret meeting with Kim Davis last week should remove any doubt about his real stance on gays.

ROME — Many may be shocked that Pope Francis took a few moments out of his love-fest tour of the East Coast of America to meet with Kim Davis, the Kentucky county clerk and religious zealot turned gay marriage martyr. But this is a pope who has made it his mantra to support religious freedom at all costs and, while it might seem like blatant hypocrisy that a pope who preaches social justice can also embrace someone so visibly and vocally anti-gay, keep in mind that he is Catholic, after all.

The pope’s vision of social equality simply does not extend to LGBT people despite his famous “Who am I to judge” moment during his first apostolic trip, when he was asked what he thought about a devout gay priest. In America last week, the cheering crowds who praised his inspirational words about supporting the poor and persecuted were also cheering a pope who, by action at least, supports anti-gay discrimination.

Francis is also not just the pope of the people, he is the pope of prisoners and persecuted Christians. He has visited Christians persecuted for their beliefs and prisoners on each of his 10 apostolic journeys. In Philadelphia he shook hands and embraced 100 prisoners being held for everything from murder to petty crimes.

It could be argued that Davis, whatever you think of her, fits the bill as both—as a Christian jailed for refusing to do her job because of her religious belief.

Lest we forget, despite the fact that this pope does preach acceptance for all, that acceptance clearly does have its limits. He does not actually support same-sex marriage, siding instead with the Church’s long-standing view that a family consists of a married man and woman who don’t use birth control and who spend every Sunday at Mass. “The family is threatened by growing efforts on the part of some to redefine the very institution of marriage, by relativism, by the culture of the ephemeral, by a lack of openness to life,” Francis said during his apostolic visit to the Philippines last year. “These realities are increasingly under attack from powerful forces, which threaten to disfigure God’s plan for creation.”

The meeting with Davis, which the Holy See press office spent Wednesday waffling between “not confirming or denying” before finally confirming by clearly “not denyin,g” apparently took place in the Holy See’s Embassy to the United States in Washington, sometime after the pontiff addressed Congress and before his late afternoon flight to New York City. Davis’s attorneys at Liberty Counsel say the meeting was initiated by “Vatican Authorities” though the Vatican press office in Rome told The Daily Beast they will “not comment further on this matter.”

Davis, who is not Catholic, described the scene to Vatican expert Robert Moynihan, who edits the uber-Catholic blog Inside the Vatican. “The Pope spoke in English,” she told Moynihan, according to his blog. “There was no interpreter. ‘Thank you for your courage,’ Pope Francis said to me. I said, ‘Thank you, Holy Father.’”

Francis, or more likely one of his representatives, then presented Davis and her husband, Joe, with two blessed rosaries, a picture of which CNN’s Jake Tapper tweeted out, and which Davis’s lawyers say she will give to her Catholic parents.

Davis also told Moynihan that she was concerned about protocol. “I had asked a monsignor earlier what was the proper way to greet the Pope, and whether it would be appropriate for me to embrace him, and I had been told it would be okay to hug him,” she said. “So I hugged him, and he hugged me back. It was an extraordinary moment. ‘Stay strong,’ he said to me. Then he gave me a rosary as a gift, and he gave one also to my husband, Joe. I broke into tears. I was deeply moved.”

On the flight back from the United States on Sunday, Terry Moran from ABC News asked the pope on behalf of the English-language journalists on board whether he “supported those individuals, including government officials, who say they cannot in good conscience, their own personal conscience, abide by some laws or discharge their duties as government officials, for example in issuing marriage licenses to same-sex couples. Do you support those kinds of claims of religious liberty?”

Francis replied, “I can’t have in mind all cases that can exist about conscience objection. But, yes, I can say the conscientious objection is a right that is a part of every human right. It is a right. And if a person does not allow others to be a conscientious objector, he denies a right. Conscientious objection must enter into every juridical structure because it is a right, a human right. Otherwise we would end up in a situation where we select what is a right, saying ‘This right that has merit, this one does not.’ It [conscientious objection] is a human right. It always moved me when I read, and I read it many times, when I read the Chanson de Roland, when the people were all in line and before them was the baptismal font and they had to choose between the baptismal font or the sword. They had to choose. They weren’t permitted conscientious objection. It is a right and if we want to make peace we have to respect all rights.”

ABC’s Moran followed up with the question: “Would that include government officials as well?” Francis replied, “It is a human right and if a government official is a human person, he has that right. It is a human right.”

SOURCE

I agree with bigsal - how can any self-respecting Gay person defend such a person as Big Daddy Francis?
 

gorgik9

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To me, this thread is about how utterly strange the American society is. All this hullabaloo about a minor official - we're NOT talking about a US Supreme Court Justice, not even a Judge in a court of appeals, we're talking about a lowly county clerk who doesn't like to do her job according to the law and to respect other peoples rights as American citizens - it just couldn't have happened in Sweden. Absolutely impossible, and not because we don't have any religious nutcases and because everybody loves the homo boy.

No the reason why this kind of thing couldn't happen in Sweden is that petty officials just like all kind of officials one every level - state, regional commune (landsting), local commune (kommun) - are hired on formal merits (level of education, relevant experience in your field of work). Officials aren't elected, they're hired, not only the county clerc, but the same goes for judges, district attorneys, school librarians, and janitors etc etc etc.

It's a deep structural trait in the Swedish society and it has it's origins in the way Axel Oxenstierna - the first minister of king Gustav II Adolf and queen Christina - constructed the modern Swedish state.

So you can be as much a religious nutcase as you want at home, but if you try the nuts at work you'll be unceremoniously fired. NO ONE would start arguing about that the Bäääbäl says this and that. Of no consequence at all...
 

W!nston

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Big Daddy Frankie agreed to meet Our Lady of Perpetual Denial Kim and gave taciturn approval of her discrimination in her capacity as a government official of a minority of U.S. citizens against the will of the Supreme Court of the United States. The Vatican refused to disclose how this meeting was arranged but it happened immediately following Frankie's appearance before Congress - probably on the Capitol grounds or very nearby. This is absolutely unacceptable and should be protested by someone in authority but that will never happen. The lawyers in this story are the Liberty Counsel and everyone knows who they are aligned with - the Republicans - so I believe someone in the Republican camp arranged the meeting. Politics. Just as bigsal was explaining how Frankie interferes in Italian politics.

Look at his pictures where he has that grin on his face. He is not a saint. He is a scary megalomaniac.

Here I am complaining about how his actions will affect my 'civil rights'. I'm so self-centered. What about the lives, liberty and physical well-being of those Gays who live in countries like Jamaica, Mexico, Brazil and all of Africa where it is all-out open season on Gays. Where Gays are chased through the streets by mobs and beaten or killed and where the church and politicians are rabble rousing and the police, what a joke, the police are leading the lynch mobs. Imagine how Frankie's support and approval of Our Lady Kim will play out in such places.

Frankie is a monster. Make no mistake.

So go ahead and defend him and his RCC. It makes perfect sense. He is the best Big Daddy ever! Yea Frankie!

What is the difference between Christianity and Islam on Gay Equality? There is no difference.
 

gorgik9

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So "Frankie" is a "monster" ?!? I guess it was the fault of some non-American "Frankie", "Freddie" or "Federico" to put the Texan born-again nutcase in the Oval Office...

If "Frankie" is a monster, then maybe he's a relative of Norman Bates...

What I'm thinking about is historian Richard Hofstadter's famous phrase: "the paranoid style of American politics"...
 

W!nston

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Well it wasn't me! I didn't vote for either Bush. I would call W a monster but he is too big of an idiot to be a monster. W is nothing but a trust-fund baby with an IQ of "69 Dude!"

America has plenty of idiots like W and even more monsters like Frankie. It's not unlike living in a correctional facility for the criminally insane and/or some Hollywood blockbuster slasher movie about a bunch of zombie cults on Methamphetamine.

We don't need more crazy... we're full up on crazy so go peddle it somewhere else please

:rofl:
 

jjjack

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I envy you

To me, this thread is about how utterly strange the American society is. All this hullabaloo about a minor official - we're NOT talking about a US Supreme Court Justice, not even a Judge in a court of appeals, we're talking about a lowly county clerk who doesn't like to do her job according to the law and to respect other peoples rights as American citizens - it just couldn't have happened in Sweden. Absolutely impossible, and not because we don't have any religious nutcases and because everybody loves the homo boy.

No the reason why this kind of thing couldn't happen in Sweden is that petty officials just like all kind of officials one every level - state, regional commune (landsting), local commune (kommun) - are hired on formal merits (level of education, relevant experience in your field of work). Officials aren't elected, they're hired, not only the county clerc, but the same goes for judges, district attorneys, school librarians, and janitors etc etc etc.

It's a deep structural trait in the Swedish society and it has it's origins in the way Axel Oxenstierna - the first minister of king Gustav II Adolf and queen Christina - constructed the modern Swedish state.

So you can be as much a religious nutcase as you want at home, but if you try the nuts at work you'll be unceremoniously fired. NO ONE would start arguing about that the Bäääbäl says this and that. Of no consequence at all...

I envy you, gorgik9. I've been wondering lately if maybe I should be living in Sweden instead of the U.S. Of course, it's closer to Russia, which is going through rather unthrilling turmoil right now, considering its perpetual leader (who may also be bat-shit crazy for all we know).

Anyhoo, here are my musings on cults and religion:

http://www.gayheaven.org/showthread.php?p=2122881&highlight=shamans#post2122881

When Pope Francis looks at people with those dewy eyes and says, "Pray for me, I really need it," I have to wonder just how much gay porn is on his hard drive. Methinks he may be an addict like us.

The thing is, why can't the Roman Catholic Church follow the lead of the Church of England and accept gays as natural and normal human beings? Why not end the hypocrisy by staging a gigantic ceremony where most of the priests, bishops, cardinals, and popes could come out to the world? Would that be so horrible? Are they afraid the money would stop flowing into their grubbing, cum-glazed paws?

Hiding their sexuality behind all the phony piety is what makes the whole thing so irritating. It's O.K. for them to be gay in secret, but nobody else. It's a monstrosity of elitism, just as their horrid clothes attest. Search for "Cardinal Burke" on Google Image if you think I'm kidding. Worst dressed churchman ever! He's the archconservative prelate from St. Louis whom Benedict elevated and Francis demoted. The funny thing is, Burke thinks he's a real fashion plate. I bet his hard drive reeks of gay porn too.

 
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mrpiz

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The Vatican says the greeting with Kim Davis does not indicate support of her position. Apparently she was just one of many dozens of cows that he petted, and gave trinkets to, on the way out of DC.

He probably had no real understanding who she even was. She just wanted to have something to milk for 15 more minutes of fame. I need to get myself a job like hers so I can get paid and not have to do any real work.
 

topdog

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Here are some more details. This is the first statement from the Vatican, other than confirming that a meeting took place. The Vatican says:
  • Davis had a brief meeting, not an "audience". (See the article below.)
  • The only audience the pope had at the embassy was to meet with a gay former student and his partner and family. (See video)
  • Davis's lawyer's claim that the brief meeting indicated support for her position was vigorously denied by the Vatican.

Vatican upends Davis affair with news of audience with gays
Yahoo News | 2015-10-02T14:30:22Z

VATICAN CITY (AP) — The Vatican turned the tables Friday on the pope's meeting with Kim Davis: Not only did it distance the pontiff from her claims that he endorsed her stand on same-sex marriage, it said the only "real audience" Francis had in Washington was with a small group that included a gay couple...

The Vatican spokesman, the Rev. Federico Lombardi, sought to give the Vatican's take of events in a statement early Friday, saying Francis had met with "several dozen" people at the Vatican's embassy before leaving Washington for New York.

Davis was among them and had a "brief meeting," he said...

"The pope did not enter into the details of the situation of Mrs. Davis, and his meeting with her should not be considered a form of support of her position in all of its particular and complex aspects," Lombardi said. "The only real audience granted by the pope at the nunciature [embassy] was with one of his former students and his family," Lombardi added.

The man, Yayo Grassi, was later identified by The New York Times and CNN as an openly gay Argentine caterer who lives in Washington. In a video posted online, Grassi is shown entering the Vatican's embassy, embracing his former teacher and introducing Francis to his longtime partner, whom Francis recognized from a previous meeting, as well as an elderly Argentine woman and a few friends from Asia...

The disclosures completely changed the narrative of Davis' encounter, making clear that Francis wanted another, more significant "audience" to come to light: that of his former student, who happens to be gay, and his longtime partner.

An audience is different from a meeting, in that it is a planned, somewhat formal affair. Popes have audiences with heads of state; they have meetings and greeting sessions with benefactors or other VIPs. So the fact that Lombardi stressed Grassi's encounter as the only "real audience" in Washington made clear that Francis wanted to emphasize it over Davis' "brief meeting" along with several dozen other people...

Lombardi declined to say who invited Davis or what the pope knew of her case. Such encounters are arranged by the Vatican ambassador and his staff, not the pope's delegation or the U.S. bishops' conference.

Davis' lawyers confirmed late Friday that the Vatican nuncio [ambassador]in Washington, Archbishop Carlo Maria Vigano, had a hand in arranging the invitation... He has strongly supported the religious liberty charge championed by U.S. bishops, suggesting that he might well have backed Davis in her battle over gay marriage.

While the pope sought during his U.S. visit to avoid hot-button culture war issues, an openly gay TV personality, Mo Rocca, was a lector at the pope's Mass at Madison Square Garden...

"I don't think it's a matter of being tricked as of being fully aware of the situation and its complexities," he said. He said Davis' supporters had "overblown" the encounter.

 

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It must be true--Fuckabee says says so. While admitting he wasn't there.
 
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