The Belgians to get a new King

[gb2000ie]

Albert II, king of the Belgians, announced today that he'll be abdicating on the 21st of July, Belgium's national day, and that he'll be succeeded by his eldest son, crown prince Filip.

How do my fellow Belgians feel about this?

How do the English guys on the forum feel about it? That's the second monarch of Queen Elisabeth's generation to step down this year - maybe she should follow suit and give poor Charles a go at the top job?

B.

P.S.
King of the Belgians is not a typo, Belgium is the only remaining popular monarchy in the world, Belgians kings are not kings of places, but of the people, and they don't automatically inherit the throne, they have to swear an oath in front of both houses of parliament in all three official languages before they become king.

P.P.S.
Filip is not a typo either, it's the equally valid Flemish spelling of Philippe.

 

[tonka]

Are you next in line?

You might look hot in jewels and ermine.

 

[gb2000ie]

Are you next in line?

You might look hot in jewels and ermine.

ROFL - unless Mum did a very poor job when she traced my family tree in the last few years, I'm a long way from Royalty - peasant farmers on both sides as far back as records go

As for ermine - the Belgian monarchs don't do that kind of pomp and ceremony - the fanciest they get is a nice naval uniform with a sash - usually the king just wears a suit.

Here's how he dressed today when he addressed the nation to announce his abdication:



And this is the most fancy you'll ever see him dressed:



I think the lack of ostentation is the reason the monarchy has survived so long in Belgium - the excesses of the British formal royal occasions would be seen as a total waste in Belgium.

B.

 

[tonka]

Helpful hint? Don't mix gold and silver.
The fancy dress is great, but it would be so much better in all gold.

You know...all the highbrows might die off (a high brow virus) and you must be ready to step in as your gay serious fabulous self. Be ready to lead!!!!!

 

[Oege]

Big thanks to your King Albert, a wise man to step down before he gets too old to do the job! Lets hope Filip will be as good as his father, who knows what surprises he has in store for you Belgians. And let's hope he will manage to learn to speak proper Flemish before he will be King so we can understand what he sais and not all burst out in laughter about his accent Maybe our King Willem Alexander and our Queen Maxima can give him some tips...

By the way, what will be his title after he resigns? Will that stay "king" or will he become "prince" again? And where will they live?

PS Yes it is a good idea that people, when they get too old for the job, to step down, like our last Queen Beatrix did and like the pope did. So Queen Margarethe, Queen Elisabeth, King Buhmibol etc. step down for the new generation and enjoy the rest of your life with things your realy want to do

 

[huggy]

How do the English guys on the forum feel about it? That's the second monarch of Queen Elisabeth's generation to step down this year - maybe she should follow suit and give poor Charles a go at the top job?

Can't see Lizzy stepping down any day soon.She's probably of the belief, like most of us over here that you're born a monarch and you die a monarch, its not really a career that you can decide to retire from with a gold watch and a nice pension.

 

[Oege]

In the Netherlands it is common a monarch steps down when he/she feels he/she gets too old to do the job, the last king who died when he was still king was Koning Willem III in 1890 (he was not only King of the Netherlands but also the last Dutch monarch who was Grand Duke of Luxemburg).

When he died the crownprinces Wilhelmina was too young so from 1890 till 1898 his wife Emma was head of state till Wilhelmina turned 18 in 1898, Wilhelmina was queen till 1948, Wilhelmina died in 1962, after queen Wilhelmina came queen Juliana, she was queen 1948 till 1980, Juliana died in 2004, in 1980 then came Queen Beatrix who stayed till this year, now her oldest son Willem Alexander is INSTALLED as king. (Dutch monarchs are NOT crowned they are installed, at the ceremony a crown is helt ABOVE the head and not placed on the head).

 

[ihno]

In Germany the nobility was kicked out during a revolution in 1918.

 

[flesh84]

I would be the QUEEN of Belgio

 

[gb2000ie]

Can't see Lizzy stepping down any day soon.She's probably of the belief, like most of us over here that you're born a monarch and you die a monarch, its not really a career that you can decide to retire from with a gold watch and a nice pension.

In EIIR's case she "rules by divine right", and swore an oath to God that she would rule for the rest of her life - I think she takes that oath very seriously, so I think you're right that she will stick it out to the end.

Belgium is different though - the King does not rule by divine right, but by the consent of the people (i.e. Belgium is the last Popular Monarchy in the world). Kings do not instantly become king when their predecessor dies, they have to swear an entirely secular oath to both houses of parliament swearing to upload the constitution and protect the nation's sovereignty and borders. Unlike EIIR Albert II did not swear to God nor did he swear he would do it for life. He swore to do a good job, and now that he is 79 he feels his health is preventing him doing a good job, oo to keep true to his oath he should step aside.

I guess that shows how important the wording of oaths is. I think it's healthier for a country to do things in the Dutch way than the British way.

BTW - Albert is the first Belgian king to abdicate of his own free will. There was only one previous abdication, and that was because the people revolted, which removes a popular monarch's legitimacy - it would be like God nipping down to tell us all he's not happy with Lizzy anymore.

B.

 

[topdog]

In EIIR's case she "rules by divine right", and swore an oath to God that she would rule for the rest of her life - I think she takes that oath very...

I agree; plus the fact that she watched the traumatic effect of her uncle's abdication (King Edward VIII) which made her father the king. He died 15 years later and for that reason and others, I think she has always viewed Edward's abdication as a selfish act.

However, all that said, I have to say that the three abdications this year (including the pope) have all been models of unselfishness, and have been motivated by the desire to give the people better leadership than the reigning monarch felt they were able to provide.

That must be giving Liz something to think about. In addition her own mother was a model of what her post-monarch life could be. So she knows she wouldn't have to live like her uncle, who become a social celebrity with no other purpose in life. Her mother was active and involved in her favorite charities up until the last year of her life.

So, I have always argued fiercely that QE2 would NEVER leave the throne early - but this year for the first time, I think she might allow herself to consider it.

(Unless she doesn't want Charles and Camilla on the throne. Her mother lived to be 101, so she could quite possibly outlive Charles and pass the crown over to William if she was determined to do that.)

 

[gb2000ie]

I agree; plus the fact that she watched the traumatic effect of her uncle's abdication (King Edward VIII) which made her father the king. He died 15 years later and for that reason and others, I think she has always viewed Edward's abdication as a selfish act.

Good point! I'd forgotten about the whole Edward VIII thing.

I think you're right in describing how the Queen interprets those events, and indeed that having kingship forced on him dramatically shortened her father's life, but I don't agree it's fair to blame Edward for doing the decent human thing when prudes tried to make him choose between love and kingship.

Personally I don't think Edward let Britain down, I think the British elite let Edward and Britain down.

However, all that said, I have to say that the three abdications this year (including the pope) have all been models of unselfishness, and have been motivated by the desire to give the people better leadership than the reigning monarch felt they were able to provide.

Once of the things Albert explicitly said is that none of his predecessors lived to be his age. He didn't spell it out in detail, but the point he was making was very clear, these are new times and we need to do what's best, rather than what we've always done just because we've always done it.

He did explicitly say that the monarchy needs to modernise to stay in step with a modern Belgium which is pretty strong stuff coming from a 79 year old. I don't remember Ratzinger saying he wanted the church to modernise and move with the times when he announced his abdication

That must be giving Liz something to think about. In addition her own mother was a model of what her post-monarch life could be. So she knows she wouldn't have to live like her uncle, who become a social celebrity with no other purpose in life. Her mother was active and involved in her favorite charities up until the last year of her life.

So, I have always argued fiercely that QE2 would NEVER leave the throne early - but this year for the first time, I think she might allow herself to consider it.

And as the Duke's health continues to deteriorate (the man is in his 90s, he's not got for ever), she may want to spend more time with him.

(Unless she doesn't want Charles and Camilla on the throne. Her mother lived to be 101, so she could quite possibly outlive Charles and pass the crown over to William if she was determined to do that.)

You know I wouldn't put it past her to be thinking that

Mind you - with the combination of her genes and Prince Philip's genes, Charles could live to be a very old man indeed!

B.

 

[MrMonkey]

I recognize only this three monarchs:

This is the second abdication this year. Generation shift, I guess.

I know Dutch, Belgians(? if they exist as a unified nation) and Brits love their monarchs, but I wonder if that would be the case if they were actual monarchs and not pure symbols with limited power or no power at all!

Every power corrupts but absolute power corrupts absolutely. That's why I don't support monarchies. Republican form of government for modern times!

Anyway: congrats to the Dutch and Belgians! :heart:

 

[gb2000ie]

I know Dutch, Belgians(? if they exist as a unified nation) and Brits love their monarchs, but I wonder if that would be the case if they were actual monarchs and not pure symbols with limited power or no power at all!

The last two Belgian monarchs have been popular in both Flanders and Wallonia, so the question really is whether Filip will be able to do the same.

Every power corrupts but absolute power corrupts absolutely. That's why I don't support monarchies. Republican form of government for modern times!

Anyway: congrats to the Dutch and Belgians! :heart:

I think it's important that the actual running of a country be democratic, but, I have to say there's a lot to be said for having an entirely non-political ceremonial head of state. Ireland has an elected president, and I don't like that the only people who stand a chance are politicians, and that the whole thing becomes a political circus. There is something a lot more dignified about having a good monarch.

I guess the danger with a monarchy is that if they turn out to be shit you might be stuck with them, depending on how the system works. This is why I love that the Belgian monarchs are "Popular Monarchs", they rule with the consent of the people, so if they become deeply unpopular they become illegitimate, and have to go - as happened in 1951. I find it comforting to know that the people in Belgium have the ultimate power over their king, and that it's not just theoretical but proven - you can rest assured the memory of Leopold III is strong in every Belgian monarch since 1951!

B.

 

[MrMonkey]

The last two Belgian monarchs have been popular in both Flanders and Wallonia, so the question really is whether Filip will be able to do the same.

If he manages to find middle way to keep both major ethnic groups together. I don't know if Belgium will survive the test of time.

I think it's important that the actual running of a country be democratic, but, I have to say there's a lot to be said for having an entirely non-political ceremonial head of state. Ireland has an elected president, and I don't like that the only people who stand a chance are politicians, and that the whole thing becomes a political circus. There is something a lot more dignified about having a good monarch.

Maybe because of all the symbolism, glamour that comes with having a crowned person for a leader.

On the other hand monarchs are people just like u and me. They also have scandals. At least every four or five years I can vote against my President. Most monarchs are her for life.

 

[Oege]

Let's just give Filip a chance, he just might be the person who can/will lead (knowing his actions a bit probably he do it by mistake) to lead Flanders to independence! Keep your fingers crossed

 

[Oege]

'Filip zal wetten tekenen met Franse naam'

BRUSSEL -
Prins Filip zal na de troonswisseling in België op 21 juli wetten en andere officiële staatsstukken met zijn Franse naam Philippe ondertekenen. Dat hebben diverse Belgische kranten, waaronder la Dernière Heure en De Morgen zaterdag gemeld.

And already here is step 1, "Brussels- Prins Filip will, after he will be on the throne on juli 21 sign laws and all other state matters with his french name. As said by various Belgian newspapers, among them la Dernière Heure and De Morgen."

Belgium has 3 official languages, flemish, first place, french, second place and german third place (place is by number of native speakers in Belgium).

King Albert signed as "Albert" (the name is writen same in all 3 languages) Alberts brother who was the late king Boudewijn just singed a "B" because his name is different in the 3 official languages, so why does Filip sign in french? Good start Filip go go go

 

[gb2000ie]

And already here is step 1, "Brussels- Prins Filip will, after he will be on the throne on juli 21 sign laws and all other state matters with his french name. As said by various Belgian newspapers, among them la Dernière Heure and De Morgen."

Belgium has 3 official languages, flemish, first place, french, second place and german third place (place is by number of native speakers in Belgium).

King Albert signed as "Albert" (the name is writen same in all 3 languages) Alberts brother who was the late king Boudewijn just singed a "B" because his name is different in the 3 official languages, so why does Filip sign in french? Good start Filip go go go

Oh dear - not a good start for Belgium

You need to be pretty inept at diplomacy not to get that everyone is watching you very closely at the moment, and that you need to sign laws in an inclusive way.

B.

 

[Oege]

B.

I like your B gb2000ie

 

[Oege]

There he is the new king of Belgium and his wife the queen