The society

[asderbrx]

Hi everyone, Can I talk about the society stuff today? Its some of my opinions and views....please feel free to discuss about it
So I think most of you guys have met some homophobic people in the society. I do, luckily not a lot. At their point of view, they think being homosexual is not natural, they think its wrong and we should be "treated" by therapy or something... Therefore I wonder, why on earth do they think that way?
Is is OUR problem or "sickness"? No its not.
Can we control it? No we can't, we are born this way!
Do we actually affect them if we are homosexual? I can't think of any way
I really don't get homophobic people. as I cannot think of any reason, I assume that its the society make them that way.
One of my best friend told me about the view of society and education. She told me that when all of us are young, we are given the idea of what is right and what is 'wrong', she called it the circle. We are all trying our best to stay in the circle. By staying inside this circle we can survive in this society. That's what people, like parents, religion...etc, told us.
But the question is, is it really right to stay in this circle? What if they are wrong? Apparently being homophobic is outside the circle, I think this is wrong (and I hope you guys think so too). Stepping out this circle will be criticize and discriminate by the society today.
I am glad that more and more people realise something is wrong and they are trying to push this circle or break it. As a result, the society is getting more and more aware of it. These people should be respected as they face all kinds of discrimination. I really hope people can change their point of view. If they can try to view things in our way, I am pretty sure they will understand. At the end of the day, we just love someone with the same sex as ours!
Thanks you for listening, really appreciate it.

 

[Rozas]

Thanks for your statement Asdrbrx

 

[bigsal]

Your beautiful message inevitably leads to many reflections.

The main problem are the people who, with a disarming indifference, accept dogmas and passively accept the ideas of others.

In practice do not reflect independently, perhaps out of laziness, perhaps out of ignorance or inability to express their thoughts.

Therefore I wonder, why on earth do they think that way?

Is a good question, to which, I fear, is difficult to give a complete answer.

 

[Tjerk12]

To create a personal opinion about things demands courage and makes you vulnerable. It seems safer to hide behind common opinions. We have become opinion consumers, helpless followers of fashion.

 

[Otage]

You put wrong as 'wrong' and right as right. You could same way put the right as 'right'. Things we think are right are to some 'right'. There are many ways on life and all I can say is, that I'm not the one to decide what is the right way. Trying to do it my way and try to make it so, that it wont bother their way. Personally I'm with you. You can't know what people are just because of their sexual orientation, religion etc. All of them have good and bad people and everything in between. It's all the same crap, different package

 

[asderbrx]

Thanks everyone for your replies. I have a new post, check it out!!

 

[bauxi80]

wonderful

 

[SimplyJakeAndAlex]

Is a good question, to which, I fear, is difficult to give a complete answer.

Actually BigSal, the answer is fairly easy; it is just a very complex issue to deal with because it touches all stratas and institutions that form a society. It's a question that requires a much developed answer and also requires to dig for the roots of the issue. One needs to go deep into historical matters of the gender issue to come up with a proper definition. What does society perceives and awaits from men and women? There was several thesis written on the subject, I did myself even write several essays. At the time I was bisexual (and still are), and yes one will find discrimination of bisexuality among the gay community where some believe that bisexuality is just a phase. I may be married to a dude, but I am still bisexual, I still look at women the very same way I look at dudes and I still have sexual urges to be with a woman sometime (being with a dude did not shut down my interest for women.)

I wrote an essay few years ago on that subject, which was following a 100 points questionnaire (that me and my colleagues cooked up) to find what people believes was worst; being a complete homosexual or being bisexual. From the heterosexuals point of view, as long as one had a thing for women; they didn't mind the other part because they believed that it was purely sexual deviation. For the gays, most of them believed that being a bisexual was an un-balanced gay, a denying gay still in closet that couldn't make up its mind. Gays would often claim that a bisexual had mental illness or anxiety because of their refusal to fully accept their gay side. It took years for bisexual to be accepted in the now well known LGBT, and yes now the LGBT is called LGBTQ - Q stands for "Queer" which is a new flavour of homosexuality with a different twist. But that's another story as more and more sociological definitions of different levels of gayness has appeared among the years.

There was flaming discussions on this forum when I first wrote the 13 recognized levels of bisexuality, it was following a thread on whether a gay for pay is bisexual by nature. For me it seems much easier to call them bisexual than straight because a genuine straight guy (the one that has been thread in a sociological philosophy that men is made for women) will never go taste water on the dark side of the moon even though there was lots of money to be made. And yet people came back with some replies that sometimes didn't make any sense to me and they were just driving around on the very same road but would refuse to take the proper exit.

So to define homophobia one has to look at few things that form the gender philosophy, which is called by sociologists and psychologists "the gender envelope." The gender envelope includes those well known social institutions such as: the family, the school, the media, the religion and the job occupation. There's more indeed but those are the major players in the study of what have caused homophobia in society across centuries. All of those institutions can have several impacts on the definition of homophobia.

Now I could go on and on, but I know this is a porn forum, and people participate so little in such discussion that I don't want to waste my precious time developing on such issues. )

One theory that I can although develop is the burden of masculinity which demands that boys conform to social notions that they do not understand, these demands are harshly enforced and shove down their throat suggesting to a small boy the possible danger of deviating from them, when he truly have no idea what they are.

Burden of masculinity is saddled at an early age for boys. They have to conform and be in control no matter what. They cannot get too close to their feelings, and if they do they cannot show them. They are taught to always "keep it all together" and are not allowed to show vulnerability, awkwardness, and doubts. The general concept of "men should always be on top -in bed and out" is induced in them and this creates the burden of masculinity. The best example of the impact of such philosophy of "men being on top" is also reproduced in a gay couple where the one that gets penetrated is believed to be more submissive that the one that is on top. I remember that there was a general misconception in the gay world that the faggot, sissy, pansy and wimpy guy in a gay couple was the one that would receive more than the one that is giving. So you see right there that the conception of "men being manly" is also very badly interpreted in the gay world as well, not just in the heterosexual persona.

I am one psychologist that believes that men has both feminine and masculine aspect, first because your DNA is composed of both male and female chromosomes and that is completely normal that one side can be more overbearing than the other depending of the genetic broth that was implied at time of conception. I strongly believe that an individual should recognize, appreciate and nourish both. But gender roles teach males to hold and contempt anything within themselves that may give some kind of femininity. Therefore they just kill or shush a vital portion of their being.

When a male happens to show these so called "feminine" weaknesses, they are immediately labelled sissy, half men, gay, pansy... even though some of them are fully heterosexual.

So first cause of homophobia is "the gender roles." And obviously that can be developed in a more thorough study... but I am not going to do that here :rofl:

 

[bigsal]

Jake your analysis is compelling, accurate and careful, though, as you said, you could go on and on.

But at the cost of being boring, I want to focus on one thing.

The envelope includes gender Those well known Social institutions Such as: the family, the school, the media, the religion and the job occupation.

Among the things mentioned in

, emphasis should be placed on religion, especially those monotheistic. The hatred of homosexuality has grown with the development of these religions. To date, unfortunately, nothing has changed.

For economic reasons, my parents could not get me to study (I received only a middle school), however, as an autodidact, when I had the time and opportunity I read a lot, especially history books.

I may be wrong, but from the texts on which I have doented in ancient civilizations in which the monotheistic religions did not exist, the situation of homosexuals was very different.

So much so that Homer tells of the love of Achilles to Patroclus and no one has ever doubted that Alexander the Great loved men too.
Of these two figures, even if the first is mythological, no one has ever questioned their "masculinity."

This is just to reiterate the crucial role in the negative, of those religions.

 

[SimplyJakeAndAlex]

Jake your analysis is compelling, accurate and careful, though, as you said, you could go on and on.

But at the cost of being boring, I want to focus on one thing.

Among the things mentioned in

, emphasis should be placed on religion, especially those monotheistic. The hatred of homosexuality has grown with the development of these religions. To date, unfortunately, nothing has changed.

For economic reasons, my parents could not get me to study (I received only a middle school), however, as an autodidact, when I had the time and opportunity I read a lot, especially history books.

I may be wrong, but from the texts on which I have doented in ancient civilizations in which the monotheistic religions did not exist, the situation of homosexuals was very different.

So much so that Homer tells of the love of Achilles to Patroclus and no one has ever doubted that Alexander the Great loved men too.
Of these two figures, even if the first is mythological, no one has ever questioned their "masculinity."

This is just to reiterate the crucial role in the negative, of those religions.

Ahhhh Sal my friend you couldn't be more right... but I was trying to stay away from developing on the religious aspect, although it is to me the principal factor of the rise of homophobia. in fact I know the real cause of homophobia historically and modernly and you have named two important historical figures that proves that homosexuality was present and widely tolerated in the ancient world... Christianity can be accounted for being the grandfather of homophobia and few other religions have just followed... the funny part is that the term "homophobia" was first coined by a Psychologist in the beginning of 1960s.