Time for pos men to party?

[luvmuslmen]

This article from Buzz Feed was 5 days ago. In brief, it states that HIV positive men with an UNDETECTABLE VIRAL LOAD showed zero chance of transmitting the virus, even without using a condom.

This is coming from me and me alone: Any HIV negative guys going home with a positive guy had better make sure that his status IS undetectable, especially if you're thinking of having bareback sex, which I still don't recommend. You're still better off using a condom as there are other STD's out there. I am a doctor and want all of you to be safe, but the article is still good news. Here it is:


Undetectable Viral Load "Completely Effective" At Stopping HIV Transmission, Study Finds
"Essentially, we’re doenting that this is a form of safe sex for couples in this situation."

Posted on July 25, 2017, at 4:01 a.m.
Lane Sainty
Lane Sainty
BuzzFeed News Reporter, Australia
More

Sherbien Dacalanio / NEWZULU
A groundbreaking new study found zero transmissions occurred between HIV-positive men with an "undetectable viral load" due to treatment, and their HIV-negative partners, across thousands of instances of anal sex without a condom.

The Opposites Attract study, led by professor Andrew Grulich from the Kirby Institute, followed a cohort of 358 gay male couples – one partner HIV-positive, the other HIV-negative – in Australia, Thailand and Brazil.

The HIV-positive partners in the study had an "undetectable viral load", meaning they are on treatment to suppress the virus so it is undetectable in the blood.

Not a single HIV transmission occurred across the almost 17,000 times participants reported having anal sex without a condom.

12,000 of those sexual encounters were protected solely by the HIV-positive partner's undetectable viral load, and in the other 5,000, the HIV-negative partner was also taking a drug to protect against contracting HIV, known as PrEP.

“It really does confirm that undetectable viral load is completely effective at preventing transmissions in gay couples," Grulich told BuzzFeed News from Paris, where he is presenting the research to the International Aids Society (IAS) Conference on HIV Science.

"Essentially, we’re doenting that this is a form of safe sex for couples in this situation."

Grulich described the discovery as "transformative" for gay male couples with differing HIV status.

"This tells us that if an HIV-positive person gets on treatment, achieves undetectable viral load – and that can take three-to-six months, it’s not immediate – they will not transmit, provided they continue to take their pills daily and see their doctor to have their viral loads monitored."

Grulich said previous data had been "very very firm" in showing that an undetectable viral load prevents transmission in heterosexual couples, but more limited when it came to the same effect in gay male couples.

"There was a real concern that because anal transmission is a much higher risk behaviour that vaginal transmission, that the results may not apply to gay men, or to anal sex in particular. This is great news, that it is in fact as protective for anal sex as it is for vaginal sex."

Opposites Attract is the largest study into HIV transmission between gay couples of differing HIV status ever undertaken, and the first to consider data from both high-income and middle-income countries.

It ran for four years between 2012 and 2016, following each couples for about one and a half years.

In a media release about the study, workers in the HIV and health sectors in Thailand, Brazil and Australia welcomed the research and its implications.

Dr Beatriz Grinsztejn from the Evandro Chagas Clinical Research Institute in Brazil said the study would help break down the stigma around living with HIV: "These results strengthen the argument for treatment as prevention and provide couples with options when it comes to negotiating safe sex."

Dr Nittaya Phanuphak, chief of the Prevention Department at the Thai Red Cross AIDS Research Centre, also said the research would "heavily de-stigmatise" HIV-positive Thai gay men and their partners.

Brent Allen, CEO of Living Positive Victoria, said the results could "change not only the ways in which many people living with HIV view themselves, but importantly how others view people living with HIV".

"People living with HIV have accepted the stinging pain of rejection and discrimination for years," he said.

"Now, based on proven scientific evidence, we can let go of some of the fear and anxiety and feel confident that the sex we negotiate with our partners cannot inadvertently result in an HIV infection.

"The challenge ahead is to get this information and the effectiveness of treatment as prevention into the minds of the community and dismantle the stigma that continues to thwart our efforts to get people to test frequently and start treatment early."

Lane Sainty is a reporter for BuzzFeed News and is based in Sydney, Australia.
Contact Lane Sainty at lane.sainty@buzzfeed.com.
Got a confidential tip? Submit it here.

 

[luvmuslmen]

This article from Buzz Feed was 5 days ago. In brief, it states that HIV positive men with an UNDETECTABLE VIRAL LOAD showed zero chance of transmitting the virus, even without using a condom.

This is coming from me and me alone: Any HIV negative guys going home with a positive guy had better make sure that his status IS undetectable, especially if you're thinking of having bareback sex, which I still don't recommend. You're still better off using a condom as there are other STD's out there. Here it is: :cheers:


Undetectable Viral Load "Completely Effective" At Stopping HIV Transmission, Study Finds
"Essentially, we’re doenting that this is a form of safe sex for couples in this situation."

Posted on July 25, 2017, at 4:01 a.m.
Lane Sainty
Lane Sainty
BuzzFeed News Reporter, Australia
More

Sherbien Dacalanio / NEWZULU
A groundbreaking new study found zero transmissions occurred between HIV-positive men with an "undetectable viral load" due to treatment, and their HIV-negative partners, across thousands of instances of anal sex without a condom.

The Opposites Attract study, led by professor Andrew Grulich from the Kirby Institute, followed a cohort of 358 gay male couples – one partner HIV-positive, the other HIV-negative – in Australia, Thailand and Brazil.

The HIV-positive partners in the study had an "undetectable viral load", meaning they are on treatment to suppress the virus so it is undetectable in the blood.

Not a single HIV transmission occurred across the almost 17,000 times participants reported having anal sex without a condom.

12,000 of those sexual encounters were protected solely by the HIV-positive partner's undetectable viral load, and in the other 5,000, the HIV-negative partner was also taking a drug to protect against contracting HIV, known as PrEP.

“It really does confirm that undetectable viral load is completely effective at preventing transmissions in gay couples," Grulich told BuzzFeed News from Paris, where he is presenting the research to the International Aids Society (IAS) Conference on HIV Science.

"Essentially, we’re doenting that this is a form of safe sex for couples in this situation."

Grulich described the discovery as "transformative" for gay male couples with differing HIV status.

"This tells us that if an HIV-positive person gets on treatment, achieves undetectable viral load – and that can take three-to-six months, it’s not immediate – they will not transmit, provided they continue to take their pills daily and see their doctor to have their viral loads monitored."

Grulich said previous data had been "very very firm" in showing that an undetectable viral load prevents transmission in heterosexual couples, but more limited when it came to the same effect in gay male couples.

"There was a real concern that because anal transmission is a much higher risk behaviour that vaginal transmission, that the results may not apply to gay men, or to anal sex in particular. This is great news, that it is in fact as protective for anal sex as it is for vaginal sex."

Opposites Attract is the largest study into HIV transmission between gay couples of differing HIV status ever undertaken, and the first to consider data from both high-income and middle-income countries.

It ran for four years between 2012 and 2016, following each couples for about one and a half years.

In a media release about the study, workers in the HIV and health sectors in Thailand, Brazil and Australia welcomed the research and its implications.

Dr Beatriz Grinsztejn from the Evandro Chagas Clinical Research Institute in Brazil said the study would help break down the stigma around living with HIV: "These results strengthen the argument for treatment as prevention and provide couples with options when it comes to negotiating safe sex."

Dr Nittaya Phanuphak, chief of the Prevention Department at the Thai Red Cross AIDS Research Centre, also said the research would "heavily de-stigmatise" HIV-positive Thai gay men and their partners.

Brent Allen, CEO of Living Positive Victoria, said the results could "change not only the ways in which many people living with HIV view themselves, but importantly how others view people living with HIV".

"People living with HIV have accepted the stinging pain of rejection and discrimination for years," he said.

"Now, based on proven scientific evidence, we can let go of some of the fear and anxiety and feel confident that the sex we negotiate with our partners cannot inadvertently result in an HIV infection.

"The challenge ahead is to get this information and the effectiveness of treatment as prevention into the minds of the community and dismantle the stigma that continues to thwart our efforts to get people to test frequently and start treatment early."

Lane Sainty is a reporter for BuzzFeed News and is based in Sydney, Australia.
Contact Lane Sainty at lane.sainty@buzzfeed.com.
Got a confidential tip? Submit it here.

 

[brmstn69]

I find this incredibly disturbing. Just how were these "studies" performed? What kind of doctor would condone an HIV+ patient having unprotected sex with someone negative? What kind of person knowingly has unprotected sex with a negative partner knowing he may infect him? Did the negative patients know they were being exposed? And even if they did any caring person would have refused to risk exposing them.

When the doctors and patients are this untrustworthy, can you really believe the results?

 

[brmstn69]

I find this incredibly disturbing. Just how were these "studies" performed? What kind of doctor would condone an HIV+ patient having unprotected sex with someone negative? What kind of person knowingly has unprotected sex with a negative partner knowing he may infect him? Did the negative patients know they were being exposed? And even if they did any caring person would have refused to risk exposing them.

When the doctors and patients are this untrustworthy, can you really believe the results?

 

[topdog]

This is from the Australian study of 350 gay couples where one partner is positive and the other is negative. The couples are from Australia, Thailand, and Brazil. It was up to the couples whether they used condoms or not, but they had to report that information back to the study.

HIV-positive gay men with undetectable viral load will not transmit virus, Australian-led study finds

We have known since 2005 that retrovirals could take the viral load down to undetectable levels. But did that mean that the virus would not be transmitted? There were small studies that indicated that was the case. This is the largest and it confirms what the smaller studies reported.

This is great news on so many levels. First of all for mixed positive/negative couples it reduces fear. I remember that line in the movie Longtime Companion where one man turns to his lover and asks "Do you think we will ever be able to have sex again?" After 30 years I think we can answer that question in the affirmative.

Second, this reduces the risk for everyone. If every HIV+ person got tested and in to treatment, transmission rates would plummet. More effort needs to go in to end stigma and fear around testing.

Finally it bears repeating that anyone who doesn't take responsibility for their own health is a fool. While you can probably trust that your husband is on his meds, I would never trust something like that of any casual sex partner. I am responsible for my own HIV status. Use every resource available to keep yourself safe: condoms, testing, treatment, PrEP, and even sometimes just saying "No" and walking away from a potential partner that won't respect your boundaries.

 

[luvmuslmen]

I find this incredibly disturbing. Just how were these "studies" performed? What kind of doctor would condone an HIV+ patient having unprotected sex with someone negative? What kind of person knowingly has unprotected sex with a negative partner knowing he may infect him? Did the negative patients know they were being exposed? And even if they did any caring person would have refused to risk exposing them.

When the doctors and patients are this untrustworthy, can you really believe the results?

I'm not so sure that they were actually condoning unprotected sex, but what they were saying was kind of a reassurance to negative men that it's okay to have sex with HIV+ men, because even without condoms, there was no evidence of transmission. If you saw my advice, I still cautioned people to continue to be protected. I am pos myself, with an undetectable viral load, yet I still would never go bareback with a partner.

 

[luvmuslmen]

Even if you're two HIV- guys, I still don't recommend unprotected sex, especially if you don't really know your partner. He may not know his status and even if he does, he might not have been tested recently. If he was tested 5 or6 months before, he could have turned positive since then. Even if he is your husband or life partner, people cheat. I know someone who got infected by his partner who cheated and didn't know his own HIV status. So, don't do it. It's your life and your body. I'm pos and have been that way long before there was testing or even certainty about how it was transmitted. Nobody used protection back then, unless they didn't want to get their partners pregnant. (Yes, I'm kidding) Somehow I managed to stay alive until there were effective treatments. I wouldn't take the chance now.

 

[luvmuslmen]

I'm not sure that they really were promoting unprotected sex, and it does say in their article, that they are trying to de-stigmatize HIV, especially in letting HIV neg people know that they are safe in having sex with pos people, especially if you do use protection.

 

[jeansGuyOZ]

The most important thing about this piece of research is that it actually made it into the mainstream media. For too long here (Australia) people who don't have HIV and who are not involved with HIV have made pronouncements based on information that was circulating in about 1984. Understandable perhaps, because in the mainstream newspapers and news channels there was a deafening silence about all the advances that have been made since then in understanding and treating the disease.

The other important thing, or course, is that someone with HIV who is on treatment and has undetectable viral load need no longer feel guilt about having sex without disclosing their status. they have known for years that the chances of passing on the virus were extremely low. Now it's official - the chances are negligible.

The ones who should feel guilty are the guys who are blissfully having unprotected sex in the belief that they themselves are HIV-negative, but have not bothered to get tested, or don't get tested regularly. they either don't know about the time it can take for symptoms to show, or they are simply in denial. They are the ones who will keep the virus circulating.

Should an HIV-negative guy take precautions when having casual sex with a stranger? Of course they should. However, the point is it's their responsibility to take precautions and protect their own health, not the other guy's responsibility to tell you something very personal about their health status with no idea what you may or may not do with the information. Saying "He gave me HIV" is a bit like someone walking onto a busy road without looking left or right and then complaining "He ran me over". (Which, incidentally, is far more likely than catching HIV from someone with undetectable viral load.)

 

[luvmuslmen]

I do need to comment about one thing that jeansguyOZ has stated. (btw, I love Aussies) I don't know what the laws are in Australia, but in the U.S. not divulging your HIV status, if you are positive and know it, is illegal. So, the onus is on the pos person, too. But that was enacted at a time before the cocktails and protease inhibitors. I always told the other person my status, and well before we made plans to go home together. I didn't want them to be in a situation where they felt pressured to have sex by waiting until we were home already and I always made it clear that I understood if they didn't want to do anything. It was their health and their decision. I always felt that it was the right way to do handle it.

 

[jeansGuyOZ]

I do need to comment about one thing that jeansguyOZ has stated. (btw, I love Aussies) I don't know what the laws are in Australia, but in the U.S. not divulging your HIV status, if you are positive and know it, is illegal. So, the onus is on the pos person, too. But that was enacted at a time before the cocktails and protease inhibitors. I always told the other person my status, and well before we made plans to go home together. I didn't want them to be in a situation where they felt pressured to have sex by waiting until we were home already and I always made it clear that I understood if they didn't want to do anything. It was their health and their decision. I always felt that it was the right way to do handle it.

And that attitude is highly commendable.

As for the laws, they vary in Australia from state to state. In some states an HIV+ person is supposed to divulge that fact to a sex partner before the event, regardless of viral load; in others, the law is basically an extension of common law saying you cannot knowingly put someone else at risk, which probably means (I don't think it has ever been tested in court) that if you knew the risk of transmission was negligible, because your viral load was undetectable or because you wore a condom or for any other reason, you were not culpable.

It has gradually dawned on lawmakers in most developed countries that discriminatory laws were actually helping the spread of the virus, because people were simply choosing not to get tested, so they could not be accused of having sex while knowing they were HIV+.