Vatican sacks gay priest after highly public coming out

[W!nston]

Vatican sacks gay priest after highly public coming out
REUTERS | By Philip Pullella | Sat Oct 3, 2015 1:57pm EDT

Monsignor Krzysztof Charamsa, left, and his partner Eduard, surname not given, leave a restaurant after a press conference in downtown Rome, Saturday Oct. 3, 2015. Vatican on Saturday fired a monsignor who came out as gay on the eve of a big meeting of the world's bishops to discuss church outreach to gays, divorcees and more traditional Catholic families.

VATICAN CITY (Reuters) - The Vatican on Saturday dismissed a Polish priest from his Holy See job after he came out as gay and called for changes in Catholic teachings against homosexual activity on the eve of a major Church meeting on the family.

Monsignor Krzysztof Charamsa, a theologian, had worked at the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith, the Vatican's doctrinal arm, since 2003, and taught theology at pontifical universities in Rome, which have also dismissed him.

Charamsa, 43, told Italy's Corriere della Sera newspaper and Polish media that he was gay and had a partner. The Church teaches that homosexuality is not a sin but homosexual activity is, and priests, whether heterosexual or gay, take vows of celibacy.

Charasma followed up his media interviews with a packed news conference with his partner and gay activists at a Rome restaurant. They had planned a demonstration in front of the Vatican but changed the venue several hours before it was due to have started.

The Vatican said the dismissal had nothing to do with Charasma's reflections on his personal life, which it said "merit respect".

But it said his interviews and the planned demonstration was "grave and irresponsible" given their timing on the eve of a synod of bishops who will discuss family issues, including the Church's position on gays.

The Vatican said his actions were aimed at subjecting the synod, which Pope Francis opens on Sunday, to "undue media pressure". He presided at prayer vigil for the synod on Saturday night before tens of thousands of people in St Peter's Square.

At the news conference, Charamsa said he wanted to make "an enormous noise for the good of the Church" and apply "good Christian pressure" on the synod not to forget homosexual believers.

"This decision of mine to come out was a very personal one taken in a Catholic Church that is homophobic and very difficult and harsh (towards gays)," he said.

Francis DeBernardo, executive director of New Ways Ministry, which ministers to Catholic gays, said the Vatican's move was "sadly disappointing."

"It is unfortunate that Church leaders did not see Charamsa's announcement as an opportunity for further dialogue with someone they have known and trusted," DeBarnardo said.

At the news conference, Charamsa suggested that a study be made of how many homosexuals work in the Vatican.

"I ask the pope to be strong and to remember us, homosexuals, lesbians, transsexuals and bisexuals as children of the Church and members of humanity," Charamsa said.

The issue of homosexuality and the Church has dominated the aftermath of the pope's visit to the United States last week.

The Vatican has been embarrassed by a row over the pope's meeting during his U.S. trip with Kim Davis, a Kentucky county clerk who went to jail in September for refusing to honor a U.S. Supreme Court ruling and issue same-sex marriage licences.

SOURCE

What a great story!

 

[gb2000ie]

On it's face, this seems like an absolute scandal - priests who abuse kids don't get fired, but priests who are gay do - nuts!

BUT - the reporting here is showing a distinct bias (the headline for sure). The problem is that the priest has a partner. Straight priests get thrown out for breaking their vows of celibacy too. If this priest had shown his female lover off to the press the outcome would have been the same.

There is PLENTY of homophobia in the church, but this is not it.

All Catholic priests have to take a vow of celibacy. If you break that vow, you can get thrown out. Who it is you are not having sex with while you keep your vow is of no concern to the church, and there are lots of celibate openly gay priests. Likewise, who it is you break your vow of celibacy with also doesn't matter - plenty of straight priests get in trouble for sleeping with their female house keepers!

Now, do I think it is stupid that priests can't marry - YES! (And so does the bible!), but that's a matter for another day.

B.

 

[luvmuslmen]

On it's face, this seems like an absolute scandal - priests who abuse kids don't get fired, but priests who are gay do - nuts!

BUT - the reporting here is showing a distinct bias (the headline for sure). The problem is that the priest has a partner. Straight priests get thrown out for breaking their vows of celibacy too. If this priest had shown his female lover off to the press the outcome would have been the same.

There is PLENTY of homophobia in the church, but this is not it.

All Catholic priests have to take a vow of celibacy. If you break that vow, you can get thrown out. Who it is you are not having sex with while you keep your vow is of no concern to the church, and there are lots of celibate openly gay priests. Likewise, who it is you break your vow of celibacy with also doesn't matter - plenty of straight priests get in trouble for sleeping with their female house keepers!

Now, do I think it is stupid that priests can't marry - YES! (And so does the bible!), but that's a matter for another day.

B.

I am not Catholic, so I am looking at this from an outsider's point of view. This is addressing the hypocrisy of the celibacy issue and not the coming out of this priest, whom I fully support, btw. The Church won't let priests marry, or be in relationships, UNLESS, he converts to Catholicism from another religion and is already married. Thus, a married Episcopalian, for example, can convert to Catholicism and remain married, but a Catholic, born into the faith cannot. HUH?:hypnotized: Sounds like Comcast cable, where, if you're already a customer, you pay a higher rate that a new one. So, how does that square? If you're a Catholic priest, you can't get married, because, according the the Church, you'll be distracted and unable to devote your full attention to being a priest. But, if you're a converted priest, you won't be distracted??? Just another example of organized religion's illogicalness and insanity, which is why I stopped believing a long time ago. :duh:

 

[voccu]

On it's face, this seems like an absolute scandal - priests who abuse kids don't get fired, but priests who are gay do - nuts!

BUT - the reporting here is showing a distinct bias (the headline for sure). The problem is that the priest has a partner. Straight priests get thrown out for breaking their vows of celibacy too. If this priest had shown his female lover off to the press the outcome would have been the same.

There is PLENTY of homophobia in the church, but this is not it.

All Catholic priests have to take a vow of celibacy. If you break that vow, you can get thrown out. Who it is you are not having sex with while you keep your vow is of no concern to the church, and there are lots of celibate openly gay priests. Likewise, who it is you break your vow of celibacy with also doesn't matter - plenty of straight priests get in trouble for sleeping with their female house keepers!

Now, do I think it is stupid that priests can't marry - YES! (And so does the bible!), but that's a matter for another day.

B.

This.

Good father Charamsa knew well the rules of the organization he worked for. As all priests know.

So this is hypocritical to me. At least today there are other religious organizations that accept gays/gays who practice gay sex. And yet good father Charamsa keeps pushing his hand in the fire...

 

[W!nston]

I think he expected to be be fired. Don't you?

... Charamsa said he wanted to make "an enormous noise for the good of the Church" and apply "good Christian pressure" on the synod not to forget homosexual believers.

"This decision of mine to come out was a very personal one taken in a Catholic Church that is homophobic and very difficult and harsh (towards gays)," he said.

He added:

"I ask the pope to be strong and to remember us, homosexuals, lesbians, transsexuals and bisexuals as children of the Church and members of humanity," Charamsa said.

The Vatican's spokesman said:

But it said his interviews and the planned demonstration was "grave and irresponsible" given their timing on the eve of a synod of bishops who will discuss family issues, including the Church's position on gays.

The Vatican said his actions were aimed at subjecting the synod, which Pope Francis opens on Sunday, to "undue media pressure". He presided at prayer vigil for the synod on Saturday night before tens of thousands of people in St Peter's Square.

For whom are Monsignor Charamsa's actions 'grave and irresponsible'? Compared to the long and heinous actions by the RCC against not only the LGBT community but also women I think Charamsa should be a candidate for quick sainthood upon his death for his efforts to stop the abuse and discrimination of the LGBT community.

I think they are a beautiful couple, too. Don't you?

 

[gb2000ie]

I think they are a beautiful couple, too. Don't you?

They do indeed look like a very cute couple.

I also agree that he was trying to get fired, and that he did his best to make as much noise as possible in the process.

Since this seems planned, I hope he has some other jobs lined up for himself.

BTW - I think the problem I have with the article is largely the link-bait headline. "Gay Priest quits church in protest" would seem more appropriate.

B.

 

[W!nston]

Ah, but he did NOT quit the church:

The Vatican on Saturday dismissed a Polish priest from his Holy See job after he came out as gay and called for changes in Catholic teachings against homosexual activity on the eve of a major Church meeting on the family.

He made them dismiss him in order to put more pressure on the Church to finally make changes.

 

[voccu]

Ah, but he did NOT quit the church:



He made them dismiss him in order to put more pressure on the Church to finally make changes.

As I said, there are other churches sympathetic towards gays. For example he could convert to Anglican church, they have women, gay & married priests.

Instead he chose this futile fight. RCC will not change its doctrine towards gays.
Pope Francis looks like a nice guy, but in the end he is as conservative as every pope was.

I could be sarcastic to say that this priest had a very nice and easy life as a priest of the RCC, enjoying easy work for decades. For decades he was ok with everything RCC stands for. RCC provided him a very easy life. I don't approve RCCs doctrine, but I'm aslo puzzled why do people like this priest just don't change church instead living in a lie for decades...

 

[gb2000ie]

Ah, but he did NOT quit the church:



He made them dismiss him in order to put more pressure on the Church to finally make changes.

But it was an intentional protest by the priest, not a homophobic act by the church.

Because he has a partner, this is as much about the church's stance on celibacy as it is about the church's stance on gays.

B.

 

[bigsal]

I think this has nothing to do with the fact that he's gay.

The vatican says he has to be celibate and he took the vow, instead he has chosen to have a partner and enjoy sex with him.

Amen to that! But what did he expect? A gay wedding paid by the vatican? :thinking:

:rofl: )

 

[topdog]

I found it interesting that the Vatican seemed more upset about the embarrassing timing of the announcement than anything else. They almost ignored the actual sexual implications, and complained about the announcement overshadowing their conference.

The backstory here is that there are probably more sexually active gay priests working in the Vatican than anywhere else.

 

[gb2000ie]

what I'm reading in your messages here is that celibacy covers sex between two men and sex between a man and a woman ... but not sex forced on children by priests ...


and another question (purely hypothetical at least I hope) ... Do they have sex ?
How did the Vatican knew they had sex ?

Celibacy is not just about sex - it's about not being romantically involved with any person. The theory is that you marry God, so you should have no room in your life for human romance.

(It's a dumb theory IMO, but that's the RCC for you)

B.

 

[skyward]

I think part of the thinking is that if a priest married, and then dies, his wife & children will still need somewhere to live, and depending on law and jurisdiction the parochial house would remain with the family. There is also the matter of the Church being morally & possibly legally responsible for looking after them. They could not simply toss them out on the side of the street. Celibacy overcomes such issues.

In the case of the Anglican Church, the role of 'Vicar' evolved into a kind of civil-service position. The Vicars had spiritual duties of course, but there was a stronger emphasis on practical duties like conducting marriages and filing birth details. They also had less to fear from the state as, in a sense, they were part and parcel of it.

From the Vatican's perspective they are very much on the outside, separate and independent... how could they trust for example Germany or Britain not to institute laws and practices that would cease property and revenues in a variety of ways, within their respective borders. So celibacy imo was and probably still is about retaining more property and preventing income and funds from passing to a wife or children.

Of course they will never admit any of this. The other issue is that getting rid of celibacy would cause a schism. I would say that at least 20-30% of priests are gays & the church is their closet. If celibacy were removed as a requirement, the closet factor is reduced. So all the gay priests, especially the younger ones, would predictably panic, schism & form their own ultra conservative faction.

The idea of a schism might seem irrelevant to the outsider looking in, but it would actually become a major geopolitical and global issue. The Vatican is basically a western institution, and it ultimately serves western interests. For example, note the Pope's recent 'stop-off' in Cuba. Or how might the Catholic minority in Belarus be useful as a political force?

Interestingly the priest in question has been quite vocal recently about Catalonia, and the 'right of self-determination'. Maybe he became frustrated with the unwillingness of the Vatican to support his position, or maybe he just 'flipped'. Just another moment of drama in the political whirl of Vatican life. It would take at least a couple of assassination plots to really shake up their week.:rofl:

 

[gb2000ie]

I think part of the thinking is that if a priest married, and then dies, his wife & children will still need somewhere to live, and depending on law and jurisdiction the parochial house would remain with the family. There is also the matter of the Church being morally & possibly legally responsible for looking after them. They could not simply toss them out on the side of the street. Celibacy overcomes such issues.

Not to mention inheritance rights - this way the Church got to hoover it all up over the millennia. They didn't get filthy rich by accident!

B.