what is EARTH to god??

[etilit]

i was thinking...why would god make the earth? is it a mad experiment?
or is it just a place to play? or perhaps a pastry to bake and see how it turns out?

if so...how many EARTH's are there baking...lol

 

[richym]

Don't know if your really looking for my deep theological answer, but here it is, and this is coming from a Christian perspective.
In the various creation myths of the ancient world, the world is normally formed out of chaos and fighting between the Gods (in some cases the world is one of the gods bodies cut in two). The story of Genesis challenges this perception. It suggests that God actually takes care putting the world together, going through piece by piece, until he gets to the pinacle of creation, humanity.
So then why did he create the world? Because God is a relational being. He likes to be in relationship with others, and so he create a world where he could place humans, who could be in relationship with him.
Could there be other worlds out there, sure.
That's my answer anyway.

 

[etilit]

Don't know if your really looking for my deep theological answer, but here it is, and this is coming from a Christian perspective.
In the various creation myths of the ancient world, the world is normally formed out of chaos and fighting between the Gods (in some cases the world is one of the gods bodies cut in two). The story of Genesis challenges this perception. It suggests that God actually takes care putting the world together, going through piece by piece, until he gets to the pinacle of creation, humanity.
So then why did he create the world? Because God is a relational being. He likes to be in relationship with others, and so he create a world where he could place humans, who could be in relationship with him.
Could there be other worlds out there, sure.
That's my answer anyway.

im allways looking for yours and anyones...deep theological thoughts

it just makes us understand each other better and..after all...wouldent we all be better off...understand each other? lol

 

[richym]

I totally agree Etilit. We need to learn to stop and to listen to others. Not to try and prove that we are right, but to accept that others have a view. Hopefully as together people discuss what they believe, both side will come to discover the truth.

 

[richym]

Well Nilstreet, I believe that as you search, then you find that there is evidence for there being a God and an afterlife. We may never be able to answer all of the questions about God and such, and that's fine, that is why we have faith. Besides once you know everything about something, you become as great as it, or greater. So if God is greater than us, of course we can't fully understand him/her. But we keep searching, to learn more and more. That's what I think.

 

[richym]

Hey Nilstreet,
That's really interesting to hear. Sounds like you have been on a bit of a journey. It is so important to question what we have been taught in the past, to work out what we really do believe, is there enough evidence to prove it. Just sucks that it seems that everything seems to fallen away for you.
Yeah I believe that there is evidence. No there is possibly nothing that I could conclusively prove that God exists, but there is enough evidence out there that stacks up to say that yes God exists. If you want I'm happy to chat about that, but I don't want to push my points of view or anything here.
But I just want to encourage you to keep searching, keep asking questions and keep talking to people. I believe there is truth out there, and the only way to find it is to look for it. All the best.

 

[alexfot55]

What is God to Earth?

 

[richym]

An interesting statement nilstreet. You had obviously done a lot of thinking on all of these issues, which is great. I've probably got a couple of comments to make about it now, sorry don't have too much time to write this.

First thing, I disagree with your statement that Jesus probably didn't exist. If the Bible was the only evidence that we had for Jesus, then yes I would accept that, but it isn't the case. Roman historian Tacitus mentions Jesus was killed during the time of Tibeirus under the proctratorship of Pontius Pilate. Jospehus, a Jewish Historian, mentions that Jesus existed. There is a Syrian letter which talks about how the Jews killed their King, as the Greeks killed Socrates, and this can only be Jesus. And there are numerous refferences to Jesus in the writings of the Jewish relgious leaders of around that time. I believe that no matter what you say about Jesus' claims about himself as found in the Bible, you can not say that this man did not exist. There is clear historical evidence that Jesus lived on earth, and died during the governorship of Pilate. (This is one of the problems I have with Islam when they claim that Jesus didn't die, because it is too strong of an hisotrical fact.)

Secondly I am interested by your terrarium annalogy. For God not to be involved suggests that the world and humanity is just some scientific experiment. Like God woke up and thought, let's try and make humans, I wonder what they will do? We are far more to God than an experiment. We are the ones that God dearly loves, we are the pinacle of the creation. And so I believe of course he gets invovled in our lives, because that is how he shows that he really cares. He is not invalidating anything, because this is not an experiment. This is God building relationships with other.

The search for science to explain everything is an interesting one, and could lead to the whole discussion of whether we are moving to post mordernity where we realise that it just isn't going to happen or not. But I like the statement I have seen around the place, Science tell us how the world works, and how it is here, Religion (philosophy if you like) tells us why.

Thanks for your comments, and I look forward to continuing this dialogue.

 

[richym]

I wish I had some time to look at John Armstrong's work, life is just too busy. Too much to read and too little time. There seems to be a misconception that the Council of Nicea was responsible for putting together the Bible as we have it today. Actually the Council of Nicea did not deal with the issue of cannon (what is in and out of the Bible) at all, and the Old Testament was set long before, and the majority of the New Testament books were agreed upon long before that date. And I would disagree that we don't know who wrote the Bible. Some of the books we are certainly not sure of, but I would argue that almost all of the New Testament we can point to their exact authours, and yes there would be scholars who would disagree with me, I get used to that.
It is interesting, because we expect that there would be lots and lots of books written about Jesus, because that is what we do, we see something and we write about it. But that is not the case in those times. Oral tradition was far more important, and seen as more reliable than written tradition. So it is not surprising that we don't have a whole heap of books about Jesus, although we can be sure that there were other written sources it seems that haven't made it down to us. And yes Jesus was a common name (a derivative of Joshua), but most historical doents refer to Jesus Christ, a formula that was used for no one else.
Also we need to note that within the Bible we have four independant accounts of Jesus. It is not like one person sat down and wrote the four gospels. They are four different people recording what has happened.
Does it seem strange that a man would do these amazing things, yes. That is one of the things that points to the fact that Jesus is more than just a man.
I probably wasn't clear sorry, my problem with Islam is not that it is not believeable that Jesus didn't die, but that it does not fit with the strong historical evidence. I studied ancient history at University, including a lot of Biblical history, so proving things with historical sources is important to me. Like you, if you can't back it up with the evidence that is there, you won't get me believing you.
As you say the terrarium analogy is just a hypothesis, and can't be proved either way. I just thought I would throw out a different thought on it.
Well I have to go again, life is just too busy. Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts, it is interesting to hear your points of view. Although some Christians believe you just have to blindly believe what the church tells you, I think it is important to liste to what others believe, and to question your own thoughts. So thanks for your input and helping me to continue to question what I believe. I hope we will both continue to question and to search for the truth.

 

[tomba]

Hey Nilstreet,
That's really interesting to hear. Sounds like you have been on a bit of a journey. It is so important to question what we have been taught in the past, to work out what we really do believe, is there enough evidence to prove it. Just sucks that it seems that everything seems to fallen away for you.
Yeah I believe that there is evidence. No there is possibly nothing that I could conclusively prove that God exists, but there is enough evidence out there that stacks up to say that yes God exists. If you want I'm happy to chat about that, but I don't want to push my points of view or anything here.
But I just want to encourage you to keep searching, keep asking questions and keep talking to people. I believe there is truth out there, and the only way to find it is to look for it. All the best.

This is typical Christian nonsense.

'Yeah I believe that there is evidence. No there is possibly nothing that I could conclusively prove that God exists, but there is enough evidence out there that stacks up to say that yes God exists.'

Which is it? It can't be both. For most sane people, 2+2 would make four. But it seems for Christians, 2+2 can make any result they want it to make. Is idiocy also proof of the existence of your God?

'I believe there is truth out there, and the only way to find it is to look for it.'

Have you looked for the truth? How hard have you looked? Looked hard enough for the pretty clear evidence that God is nothing more than a man-made construct? Looked hard enough at the established churches' unwavering opposition to anything which undermines their very reason to exist? Looked hard enough to question why so many faiths want to keep followers in ignorance about anything which falls outside their own tenets.

The most dangerous and insidious aspect of religion is the tendency to explain away far too many of our most pressing problems (from world hunger to wars and poverty) as, somehow, God's will. The price we pay as punishment for some long-past crime. All that for an apple?

It turns out that your 'God of Love' can, like most Gods, be horribly vindictive. That single word alone should tell you that the concept of a God is a man-made one. There is nothing God-like about possessing a vindictiveness which stretches through all time. There is, however, something horribly human about it.

Having a handy, all-encompassing, diety would help explain away what could not, at the time, be easily explained. It helped impose social order, at a time of utter chaos, with the threat of eternal punishment for those who did not obey 'God's' laws which, rather handily for some, a small group of men had exclusive access to and the right to interpret at will.

If people like you are happy to base your entire lives around such fantasy, go right ahead. However, you might like to pause and think what your nasty and vindictive God might make of you being here on this forum - amidst we Hell-bound cocksuckers eager to nab ourselves some porn.

But then I've always found religion and hypocrisy to be two sides of the same coin.

 

[tomba]

I didn't notice this from your later post:

'I wish I had some time to look at John Armstrong's work, life is just too busy.'

Surely that means, show me all the evidence you like but don't expect me to look at any of it, let alone accept any of it.

 

[richym]

Hey Tomba,
Thanks for your comments. I understand that sometimes it can sound like Christians are hedging their bets. For me it is an acceptance that the spiritual journey for each of us is different, and there are different ways that we will come to understand God. Different things will prove God to different things. I come from an historical background, it is what I studied at univeristy, so the historical facts are important for me. That would bore the socks of others and they will understand God through experiences, which I think it just airy fairy, but it true for them.

Yes I have questioned faith. I've talked with people from other religions, I've read stuff that questions the whole existence of God. The Bible college I went to got us to question our beliefs, questions what we think the Bible is saying. To not just read it on face value, but to get into it and study it. We were taught how to read and interpret the Bible, and how to teach others to do the same. You are right, the Bible should never be interpreted by just the select few. All must be able to read it, and helped to understand it. (And for some bits of the Bible boy do we need help).

And yes I would like to read John Armstrong's work, but unfortunately life is short, and I read terribly slowly. My bookshelf is piled with books I need to read.

I think we need to be careful, we can get so good at blaming everything on God, and that goes for people inside and outside the church. We look at the world and we ask why do people starve. Well God has given the world enough food, it's just that those of us in the West over eat and are greedy, and we do not share our wealth. It's much easier if we just blame God, because then we don't have to feel bad about ourselves. But the church is standing up and saying we need to change, we need to make a difference. In fact if you took the church out of society, governments would collapse because they could not replace all the social welfare that the church does. Yes Christians have been good at focusing on ourselves in the past. We have focused on our getting to heaven, and getting others in. But we are called as Christians to make a difference in this world.

Last point I want to make for today. I hope this hasn't been too disjointed. I don't actually believe that gay people are going to hell. I believe that as you carefully read that Bible, God is talking about how he doesn't like abusive relationships, not all gay relationships. So I have no problem being here, because that is who God made me to be, and there is nothing wrong with it. Ok he may not like all the porn I download, but that's for God and I to work through.

I hope all this makes a bit of sense. You probably think I'm a raving mad Christian, and hey maybe I am. But I'm more than willing to continue to discuss this if you want.

 

[c750dt]

If there really is God, I'd imagine it would have come about in the same manner as the universe itself. Was there something before or was it by pure chance? Maybe somewhere out of this world, time doesn't actually exist but is instead something for us as mortals to dabble with.

I don't believe in a god. However, one thing I dwell on from time to time is this report I once read explaining that, in theory, everything in the universe cancels out; sum of all matter is ultimately nil. If that's so, then is it a mere system of one body of matter canceling out another (think about batteries; once all positive and negative cells have paid each other a visit, the battery is spent) or is it some odd, unexplainable situation (maybe outside the universe, there really is nothing; if you find a way to exit the universe, can you get back in?) or maybe there's just no way for us to have any understanding. What if this isn't the only universe? Even then, we're dwelling on stuff generations dating back to the advent of formal communication have tried to answer. Maybe this is stuff not meant to be thought too much of.

Either way, whether this was all created by a god or whether there is no god, you still have to explain how the object or being that was first present came about. I consider the existence of all we know to be equally impossible for a living person to explain whether there is or isn't a supreme being. Unfortunately, the ones most likely to really know for sure are the dead and they don't seem too able to tell us anything.

 

[Sander]

Reality Tv?