Gay Marriage...thumbs up or down?

jwgx3 · Oct 1, 2011

Are you guys for gay marriage? I feel we should get the same federal rights even if the rights come under a different name. I feel some heteros treat marriage like a joke.

topdog · Oct 1, 2011

I am for gay marriage, and not settling for civil union. (Not that anybody has to get married, whether you are hetero or homo.) But the choice needs to be there. Here's why:

"Civil union" is a new legal term. Insurance policies can include civil partners, or not; likewise laws can be written to apply to civil partners - or not.

But hundreds of thousands of laws, insurance policies, shopping discounts, inheritance laws, child custody, club memberships, hospital policies, social security and pension benefits, etc. already specify privileges for a married spouse. By letting gay couples marry, they are immediately grafted in to all of these social benefits.

For civil partners it's a different story. Unless a policy, law or benefit specifically mentions civil unions, there is no assurance at all that a partner has any legal standing.

The U.S. tried "separate, but equal" before, and it didn't turn out so well.

grant12 · Oct 1, 2011

topdog said:
I am for gay marriage, and not settling for civil union. (Not that anybody has to get married, whether you are hetero or homo.) But the choice needs to be there. Here's why:

"Civil union" is a new legal term. Insurance policies can include civil partners, or not; likewise laws can be written to apply to civil partners - or not.

But hundreds of thousands of laws, insurance policies, shopping discounts, inheritance laws, child custody, club memberships, hospital policies, social security and pension benefits, etc. already specify privileges for a married spouse. By letting gay couples marry, they are immediately grafted in to all of these social benefits.

For civil partners it's a different story. Unless a policy, law or benefit specifically mentions civil unions, there is no assurance at all that a partner has any legal standing.

The U.S. tried "separate, but equal" before, and it didn't turn out so well.

Completely agree.

shannon · Oct 1, 2011

No. Gay marriage is a fantasy dream created by flamers (IE: gay people you see on tv.) A will can get you the same return on a 20 partnership as any marriage licences.

brmstn69 · Oct 1, 2011

I find the very concept of "legal" marriage to be unconstitutional and in violation of the separation of church and state. Marriage is a religious bond, not a legal union.

Civil unions should be used for legal benefits and should be available for all. Marriage should be between you, your church and your God.

This way, if you want your union to be legal, go to the court house. If you feel that the union must also be in the eyes of God, talk to a priest.

This also takes "Defense Of Marriage" out of the governments hand and places it in the clergy. So if the Catholics and Baptist don't want gay marriages, they don't have to perform them, gays can always go to the Episcopalians...

gb2000ie · Oct 1, 2011

shannon said:
No. Gay marriage is a fantasy dream created by flamers (IE: gay people you see on tv.) A will can get you the same return on a 20 partnership as any marriage licences.

Sorry, but that is just not legally correct in any any legal jurisiction I am familiar with.

A Will does not get you visitation or next of kin rights in a hospital, a Will does not get your inheriting partner the same tax status as a spouse, and Will does not get you the same tax benefits through life as a spouse does.

In Ireland, spouses inherit EVERYTHING tax-free. The estate just passes to the remaining partner without any inheritance tax. No Will can get you that, only a marriage certificate!

A Will is a heck of a lot better than nothing, but it falls a long way short of marriage.

B.

gb2000ie · Oct 1, 2011

brmstn69 said:
I find the very concept of "legal" marriage to be unconstitutional and in violation of the separation of church and state. Marriage is a religious bond, not a legal union.

Civil unions should be used for legal benefits and should be available for all. Marriage should be between you, your church and your God.

This way, if you want your union to be legal, go to the court house. If you feel that the union must also be in the eyes of God, talk to a priest.

This also takes "Defense Of Marriage" out of the governments hand and places it in the clergy. So if the Catholics and Baptist don't want gay marriages, they don't have to perform them, gays can always go to the Episcopalians...

When did the religious lot get to fully own marriage? It has been a legal institution for centuries if not millennia! Sure, it's also been a religious institution for millennia, but that's no reason to just hand it over and let them have it!

If anything, Marriage was a social contract long before it was anything else. It's about your society recognising that two of you are a couple. The religious and legal stuff is all secondary, it's primarily social.

So no, we should not surrender our quest to have our marriages recognised by our governments and our societies. As an agnostic I couldn't give a crap whether churches recognise any marriages, but I expect governments not to discriminate, and indeed, I expect society not to discriminate.

Finally, I think it's a complete pipe-dream to expect straight people to give up on the term marriage for anything but religious ceremonies, it won't happen, so if you settle for 'civil partnerships', you settle for 'separate but equal', and like Topdog said, that doesn't turn out so good when it's tried!

Atheists get married, and so should gays.

B.

mateo · Oct 1, 2011

Marriage :thumbs up:, although having civil union is better then having nothing.
I would be perfectly happy if current law (in my homeland Croatia) about same sex partnership would change into civil union law.

Progress has been always difficult, so all or nothing immediate changes are almost impossible, in my opinion better to do it in two steps civil union now, marriage in 5 to 10 years.

jw4833 · Oct 1, 2011

I do feel that the gay people should have the right to be married just like straight people.

jeansGuyOZ · Oct 1, 2011

My personal preference would be to do away with the legal standing of marriage altogether. Marriage should be something that two people can do if they wish, in the church of their choice. It should be completely divorced (pun intended) from any legal rights or responsibilities.

Unfortunately, I don't see that happening anytime soon. The fact is, marriage is a legally recognised institution, conveying all sorts of things that have nothing to do with religion. That being the case, I have eventually come round to the belief, after years of being apathetic about gay marriage, to thinking that it's an important right that we should have.

Whether I myself would want to get married is another matter.

777 · Oct 1, 2011

For gay marriage. Everyone should have the right if they want to get married, because like gb2000ie said, it's about social standing and legal rights, not about religion. I don't see a system that would cover the spouses rights the same way as marriage does, though I think our system could be depending less to it.

I also think group marriages should be recognised, but that isn't as urgent an issue as gay marriage is. We need at least the same legal standing for everyone first.

blam · Oct 2, 2011

thumbs up

brmstn69 · Oct 2, 2011

gb2000ie said:

When did the religious lot get to fully own marriage? It has been a legal institution for centuries if not millennia! Sure, it's also been a religious institution for millennia, but that's no reason to just hand it over and let them have it!

If anything, Marriage was a social contract long before it was anything else. It's about your society recognising that two of you are a couple. The religious and legal stuff is all secondary, it's primarily social.

So no, we should not surrender our quest to have our marriages recognised by our governments and our societies. As an agnostic I couldn't give a crap whether churches recognise any marriages, but I expect governments not to discriminate, and indeed, I expect society not to discriminate.

Finally, I think it's a complete pipe-dream to expect straight people to give up on the term marriage for anything but religious ceremonies, it won't happen, so if you settle for 'civil partnerships', you settle for 'separate but equal', and like Topdog said, that doesn't turn out so good when it's tried!

Atheists get married, and so should gays.

B.

Click to expand...

I think you misunderstood me... I think that civil unions should include all rights currently appointed to "legal marriage" for everyone. My argument is that here in the U.S., there is supposed to be separation of church and state. So what I'm saying is the government has no right to recognize anything but than a legal civil union. Just as there are many churches here that refuse to perform gay marriages in states that gay marriage is legal, there are also churches that are willing to perform gay marriages in states where gay marriages are illegal.

Now, you have the clergy trying to dictate the terms of a "social contract" to the government based on religious beliefs, and the government telling clergy that they cannot recognize a union because of legalities...

So, you separate the two, legal civil unions that by law grant rights to all couples and all must recognize and "Spiritual" marriage that's left to the individuals and communities to decide if they choose to recognize.

gb2000ie · Oct 2, 2011

The word 'marriage' EQUALLY covers religious and civil stuff. It is not a violation of the separation of church and state.

I refuse to surrender such an important word to the religious right. The word belongs to everyone. Like I said before, the fact that atheists get married proves it is much more than a religious ceremony.

B.

jwgx3 · Oct 3, 2011

I don't like how straight guys love watching lesbians in films yet don't support gay marriage. As long as it's enjoyable for them to beat off to then it's "hot!" The second we want to have the same rights as heteros, then our lifestyle isn't so "hot" to them. We need more PSA in the porn business to support gay rights if you like what you see.

davewa23 · Oct 4, 2011

For it.

Otage · Oct 5, 2011

From my opinnion: If gays wanna get married and be as miserable as many straigth couples, then go a head. I know though there are happy couples too, but its just that I'm not really into marriage cause I'm not that religious person. As long as there is love I think thats enough and if someone feels its a matter of equal treatment for gays and straights, I really don't see why not.
Christians say it's only for man and women. What can I say to that? It's their thing though. Why not invent a different kind of marriage, non-christian marriage? Don't wanna attack on anything, it's just my thoughts, my opinnion and just wanted to share even though the subject isn't close to my heart.

gb2000ie · Oct 5, 2011

Otage said:
From my opinnion: If gays wanna get married and be as miserable as many straigth couples, then go a head. I know though there are happy couples too, but its just that I'm not really into marriage cause I'm not that religious person.

Talk about a non-sequetor, you may as well has said "but I like cake so I'm against the idea of marriage". Marriage is NOT purely a religious thing, at most, Marriage is one third religious, the other two thirds being social and legal.

Atheists get married, agnostics like myself want to get married. Don't surrender marriage to the religious crowd, they didn't invent it and they don't own it!

Otage said:
Why not invent a different kind of marriage, non-christian marriage?

Wait ...What? You think Marriage is a Christian idea and a Christian thing? Really?

Marriage was around LONG before Jesus magically appeared in Mary's womb, and it's a part of every culture and religion on the planet!

Be careful saying insulting things like that around Muslims, Jews, Hindus, pagans, .................

Clearly the religious right have succeeded in stealing the concept of marriage from the world

B.

jeslandin · Oct 5, 2011

I hope all gaypeople around the world could have the same rights in this as Hetero people has. I should be a acceptable choice if you want to get married as a gay persons. In my homecountry many are married as gays.....

peepeep · Oct 5, 2011

Hi All

Definitely for. Why not? It's for the two people concerned to make the decision , and not for others to dictate.

There.

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