According to you which of this Martial Arts is the most effective?

[SimplyJakeAndAlex]

I have started taking a new discipline few weeks ago, I've decided to sign up for Thai Boxing. I should already say that I have Black Belt 3 degree in Ju Jit Su and I'm also Level 10 in Shaolin Kung fu (although my kung fu training wasn't made in a commercial setting, for about 14 years my Di-Sifu have been training me 3 times a week in private lessons) At the same time I was taking Ju Jit Su during the weekends

Today my Thai Boxing Instructor has challenged me to show a bit of my kung fu to him and next thing you know I beat his ass up in less than 10 minutes:rofl:. Which brought me to wonder what is the most effective martial arts. And let's be clear for me wrestling is also a martial art. To me what constitutes a "martial art", isn't the uniform or the belts/sash system to be considered martial arts. The moves one learns don't have to have Japanese, Korean or Chinese names. "Martial art" means art of combat. Therefore, boxing, kickboxing, are also sports in which someone learn to skillfully defeat an opponent, and they can all be considered martial arts.

And I also understand that someone who has been practicing for years and master his discipline may not be that easy to beat. Because after all it all comes down to training, perseverance and devotion and speed.

Lately I had a student with a black belt second degree in Taekwondo (we all know that Taekwondo is definitely a martial arts that mostly focus on kicks) but while practicing with him I have been able to block pretty much all his kicks and punches and when I used Ju Jit Su to bring him down on the ground he was totally helpless. My Taekwondo student understood that day that Jiu Jit Su mixed with Shaolin Kung fu is a very explosive and dangerous skill set. I found TaeKwondo a very beautiful martial art but in my opinion it is a little incomplete, most of the kicks they have are also present in kung fu but we use them for show because I swear someone has to be darn fast to use round house kick because it's the kind of kick that if not performed properly, one put his back to the view and a simple punch down the spine will definitely neutralize the oponent. After testing he asked me to go challenge one of his Master BB 9 dan, now that was a little more difficult as the guy was fast like liquid shit... but as soon as I've got into his guard he was also down for the count.

In Shaolin Kung Fu my animal is the mystical dragon, which means I can and will use all techniques of the other animals: Tiger, Leopard, Crane, Snake. And I went through all temples; Emei Shan, Kwantung, Fukien, Wudang, and of course Shaolin. I masters the bo staff, sai swords and samurai (yeah I know not Chinese, but I just happen to love the samurai).

I believe it would be a good discussion for a change, so tell us which martial arts you believe is more effective and why and if not explain why. My apology to all Taekwondo fighters, I just took that example because I had more often fought with Taekwondo Fighters, Karate, Kickboxers, and of all three Taekwondo was for me the easiest to disarm, it doesn't mean that your discipline is useless. Taekwondo fighters are flexible and very precise with their kicks, a very fast and very trained fighter isn't easy to beat and that goes for all disciplines. I have fought lousy Kung Fu fighters too :rofl:

The technique the Shaolin Monk is using is called the snake (it is used to study your opponent). Check carefully what happens once the studying is over . Shaolin Kung Fu also has high kicks... in fact there's about 72 fist techniques, and over 50 combinations of fly and kicks.



In this one I am really not impressed by the Kung Fu fighter, he his scared and his punches and movements lack seriously some definition and style. But the Muay Thai dude... kept to his style

 

[brmstn69]

I'm not one for "beautiful" martial arts... I prefer real world useability. Which means brutal...
Everything I know is a blend of everything else.

American Kenpo karate, which is hard to describe because there are so many variations, but basically combines Chinese and Japanese martial techniques with street fighting...

Krav Maga, developed for the Israeli military and adapted for civilian use. There is no organized sporting as it's focus is on eliminating a threat as quickly as possible, which means broken bones and dislocated joints. Not pretty, but very effective...

MCMAPS (Marine Corp Martial Arts Program) Introduced in 2001 as an more "flexible" (read less lethal) alternative to LINE (more on that later) it combines elements from just about every form of martial arts and is designed as an effective counter against all...

LINE (Linear Infighting Neural Override Engagement) This is old-school Marine (also Army Special Forces and Navy SEALS) Hand to hand combat. Designed for use in limited visibility conditions by fatigued soldiers in full gear, and tight quarters, there are no fancy kicks or hip-throws. It was replaced by MCMAPS because proper execution of the techniques WILL cause death to the opponent...

With the exception of LINE, I haven't had "formal" training in any of these.

I given a crash coarse in Kenpo by a half Japanese half Navajo man (my boss at the time, lol) to be a sparring partner for his daughter, who was a national championship level competitor...

I learned Krav Maga from several Israeli soldiers in joint training exercises...

and MCMAPS from other Marines...

*** If you want to learn something really unusual, obscure, flamboyant, and effective...

Try Bartitsu

 

[SimplyJakeAndAlex]

I'm not one for "beautiful" martial arts... I prefer real world useability. Which means brutal...
Everything I know is a blend of everything else.

American Kenpo karate, which is hard to describe because there are so many variations, but basically combines Chinese and Japanese martial techniques with street fighting...

Krav Maga, developed for the Israeli military and adapted for civilian use. There is no organized sporting as it's focus is on eliminating a threat as quickly as possible, which means broken bones and dislocated joints. Not pretty, but very effective...

MCMAPS (Marine Corp Martial Arts Program) Introduced in 2001 as an more "flexible" (read less lethal) alternative to LINE (more on that later) it combines elements from just about every form of martial arts and is designed as an effective counter against all...

LINE (Linear Infighting Neural Override Engagement) This is old-school Marine (also Army Special Forces and Navy SEALS) Hand to hand combat. Designed for use in limited visibility conditions by fatigued soldiers in full gear, and tight quarters, there are no fancy kicks or hip-throws. It was replaced by MCMAPS because proper execution of the techniques WILL cause death to the opponent...

With the exception of LINE, I haven't had "formal" training in any of these.

I given a crash coarse in Kenpo by a half Japanese half Navajo man (my boss at the time, lol) to be a sparring partner for his daughter, who was a national championship level competitor...

I learned Krav Maga from several Israeli soldiers in joint training exercises...

and MCMAPS from other Marines...

*** If you want to learn something really unusual, obscure, flamboyant, and effective...

Try Bartitsu

Will definitely take a look... and sorry to disappoint but Shaolin wasn't a martial arts for beauty when it first started it was a very deadly one. I fought three Kenpo guys in competition, I beat two of them... but the last one was too fucking smart while I was fighting the others he studied my stance (which is totally open) and he rage into me when he heard fight... he was not going to give me a chance to start fighting LOL. I have to really really give him that victory he really took me by surprise LOL. I still was able to hurt him a little but not enough he won. But I do understand what you mean by usability... this is why I combined the show of Shaolin and the usability of Ju Jit Su Wait I have seen bartitsu just did a quick google search, this was very much the style used by Sherlock Holmes in the movie... well you're right I loved that style but it does have some of Shaolin's crushing bone techniques.

 

[SimplyJakeAndAlex]

Okay that Krav Maga is amazing I love it... it's Ju Jit Su to power of ten, I may just drop thai boxing right now LOL... adding this to my already known technique of Ju Jit Su and Shaolin would make me an even more dangerous weapon :rofl:



Thanks [FONT=&quot]brmstn69 you made me a fan... now I need to find a private teacher[/FONT]

 

[Whisper]

All that I know is that I would love to see you using your skills, Jake, but I think this is no surprise for you. You know me

I don't know much about any of martial arts, but the control of your body and moves with strength, speed, etc have always interested and fascinated me. It is something so amazing what a human body can do.

 

[SimplyJakeAndAlex]

All that I know is that I would love to see you using your skills, Jake, but I think this is no surprise for you. You know me

I don't know much about any of martial arts, but the control of your body and moves with strength, speed, etc have always interested and fascinated me. It is something so amazing what a human body can do.

Simple dudette... next time Liam comes home I'll take him for a sparring match, he's Taekwondo and I'll just use Ju Jit Su on him because the last time I used Shaolin on him I almost broke his leg (he's too cute to be broken:rofl:rofl: I also have my Alex to whom I taught the basic of Shaolin and although I have vids of my competitions when I was competing I am not posting them here

Well it's kind of normal though he has only pass 7 years so far and I'm over 18 years of practice... but he's a real spectacular Taekwondo fighter that's why I often do sparring matches with him and it helps him practice with someone that is not from its discipline. He even learned to do some of my leg to legs blocking (which is not part of Taekwondo, but it his quite current in shaolin). We do have some fun and you'll get to watch on skype but don't bother me with it... anyway he's heading for his competition in Puerto Rico, not time to break his spirit I want him to win

 

[Whisper]

Simple dudette... next time Liam comes home I'll take him for a sparring match, he's Taekwondo and I'll just use Ju Jit Su on him because the last time I used Shaolin on him I almost broke his leg (he's too cute to be broken:rofl:rofl: I also have my Alex to whom I taught the basic of Shaolin and although I have vids of my competitions when I was competing I am not posting them here

Well it's kind of normal though he has only pass 7 years so far and I'm over 18 years of practice... but he's a real spectacular Taekwondo fighter that's why I often do sparring matches with him and it helps him practice with someone that is not from its discipline. He even learned to do some of my leg to legs blocking (which is not part of Taekwondo, but it his quite current in shaolin). We do have some fun and you'll get to watch on skype but don't bother me with it... anyway he's heading for his competition in Puerto Rico, not time to break his spirit I want him to win

Well I'll try to control my impatience
And good luck to Liam :thumbs up:

 

[slimjim]

Well with all due respect to the above suggestions it's obvious which is the most effective : ORIGAMI

Think about it.... those paper cuts can be really nasty and painful X_XX_XX_X

 

[loretta]

have you ever heard of the german ju jutsu? it is an open system that combines techniqes from all martial arts such as Kali , Arnis de Mano, Eskrima, Sambo, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, Wing Chun, Muay Thai, Boxing and others, new techniqes will be added frequently. it was developed for the special forces in germany in the 1960s. it ist a very efficient self defence martial art because of the wide variety of possibilities you have if someone attacs you. you learn to fight against all kinds of attacs, standing upright or lying on the ground, with or without weapons.
i started with it when i was 14 and thanks to g'd i had to use it only once in my live in a real fight when a guy tried to stab me with his knife, i broke both his arms. i am not proud of this but i was happy that i only had a small scratch on my back and i think he learned that it can be dangerous to attac someone.

 

[Rebel7]

A graceful combination of few of those would be hard to deal with. I don't know some of the listed (as never heard of) and honestly not all (in the sense of never practiced any)..only attended a few demonstration. So can't seem to single out any.

But according to you Jake which ones of the list (if any) is good for anger management ? Like you know, redirect anger in another form of expression (more passive than aggressive).

 

[MaximumT]

Well with all due respect to the above suggestions it's obvious which is the most effective : ORIGAMI

Think about it.... those paper cuts can be really nasty and painful X_XX_XX_X

Just thinking about it makes me cringe. The pain...!! So much pain! X_X

 

[bigsal]

Ciao Jake, :hug:

I missed your posts.

I voted Ju Jit Su, because it is the only one of the disciplines listed that I practiced.

I do not know frankly if this discipline is more or less effective, because I do not have a benchmark.

I chose to practice Ju Jit Su, because the technique was about self-defense and not for offend.

:big hug:

 

[SimplyJakeAndAlex]

A graceful combination of few of those would be hard to deal with. I don't know some of the listed (as never heard of) and honestly not all (in the sense of never practiced any)..only attended a few demonstration. So can't seem to single out any.

But according to you Jake which ones of the list (if any) is good for anger management ? Like you know, redirect anger in another form of expression (more passive than aggressive).

Well I'd have to say that Shaolin Kung Fu is pretty much the one. See unlike many other martial arts Shaolin KF is really just for the development of mind and body. Although the technics we use can be very deadly, the main philosophy of Shaolin isn't to attack. Now I know few would say what's the point? But yeah one would take Shaolin not just for the combat technique, but also all the meditation, breathing exercise and philosophy that is attached to the arts. I took Shaolin because i needed to calm down and movement of Shaolin are learned through thai chi... which is a very relaxing way to learn, it's repetitive, it's sometimes very mind boggling because one wants to test their skills right away, but trust me breathing, focusing on movements and learn the philosophy of Shaolin did make me a much much much relaxed individual. I know I can be beaten, but I know that the one who engage in a fight with me will certainly gains some well deserve bruises lol. Nobody is invincible and that's one of the first rules to remind in all martial art disciplines.

Here what I teach to my student... this text come from one of the best Shaolin Academy in Australia, they are world wide reknown and I did ask them to use their text in order to teach where Shaolin comes from... but I will summarize it as the real version is quite long.

Shaolin was a city (Monastery City) in China. It was burned three time (but was rebuilt) in 1645ce when the Quin Dynasty took over China and once again in 1927ce during China Internal Provincial War. Shaolin Monks were killed. Mao Tse Tung and previous other successful Chinese rulers have condemned shaolin kung fu and forbid it to be taught all accross the Chinese empire under treat of being immediately imprisoned. This of course led to the exode of all Shaolin practitioners to all other parts of China, where they buried this ancient martial under secrecy and was taught for generation in old Chinese families.

Although in many Chinese movies, and even to this day, the Hollywood movies, the idea of Shaolin is depicted as a very violent martial art where the main goal is to KILL KILL KILL or fight fight and fight, and yet that is definitely not the goal. Shaolin takes its philosophical root DIRECTLY from Buddhism and from what I know Buddhism doesn't prone violence in any form.

In order to understand Shaolin philosophy one need first to understand the basic of Buddhism. So let's stroll in that for a moment.Buddhism believes that we are as children blundering through life relying on our base instincts, much like animals rely on instinct and intuition. We are like children in a sandbox with incredibly powerful and complex toys. Although the simplicity of a child is commendable and at times desirable, there is a reason we grow up. Yet, as long as we are not enlightened, we are relying on potluck for mistakes and learning's, and not always understanding what the learning's are. Although this is also a way, it is the way of trial and error, a very long way, which sees many people not reaching the 'True Path' and not achieving an enlightened condition.

Buddha taught; that to reach enlightenment, you need to know the 4 Noble Truths and follow the Noble Eightfold Path and thus truly enter the cycle of adult hood. All our efforts, once leaving puberty, should be focused on achieving Enlightenment before any major life decisions were made or any serious responsibilities could be taken. Any decision made before that (without the guidance of an Enlightened Elder) are shallow and often not fully considered.


The Buddha taught that in life there exists sorrow and suffering. This suffering is caused by desire and want. Therefore, unenlightened life is suffering. Birth is suffering, aging is suffering, illness is suffering, death is suffering; union with what is displeasing is suffering; separation from what is pleasing is suffering; not to get what one wants is suffering. This is described in the 4 Noble Truths

1. All life is suffering
2. The cause of suffering is desire
3. The end of suffering is the end of desire
4. The way to end suffering is the 8 Fold Path

It is said that; "A person who does not follow the path to an enlightened life lives like a preoccupied child playing with toys in a house that is burning to the ground around them. Even if you do not fully comprehend the need for the 8 Fold Path, you should start the journey as soon as possible.

1. Right Speech - Not hurtful, not exaggerated and always truthful way.
2. Right Actions - Wholesome action, avoiding action that would do harm
3. Right Livelihood - One's way of livelihood does not harm in any way oneself or others; directly or indirectly
4. Right Effort/Exercise - One makes an effort to improve
5. Right Mindfulness/Awareness - Mental ability to see things for what they are with clear consciousness
6. Right Concentration - Being aware of the present reality within oneself, without any craving or aversion.
7. Right Thoughts - Change in the pattern of thinking.
8. Right Understanding - Understanding reality as it is, not just as it appears to be. (This is to me very important)
   

Buddha said that if we are not following this path, we cannot live right.

Now what is that "enlightenment" they speaks so much of in Buddhism?

First thing to realize is that enlightenment isn't a myth or even very difficult to achieve; it is though, not easy to maintain for longer periods. As a child, you use to often daydream, that is a very very close for of enlightenment; when people seem to phase out, they are also on the verge. When you have a brilliant insight or inspiration seemingly from nowhere, this often comes from brief periods of Enlightenment. So you see, achieving Enlightenment is not difficult; it is a natural part of human life. Yet, maintaining this state for longer periods is what requires maturity of purpose.

Many have recognized the tangible, scientific and easily noticeable benefits of Meditation which includes;

• Reduced need for sleep
• Greater clarity of thought
• Increased stamina and fitness
• Improved resistance to sickness and stress
• Clearer focus
• and many more health and lifestyle related benefits

Shaolin and Buddhists believe that causing intentional harm to any sentient or living being puts a weight on your spirit that is difficult or even sometimes impossible to lift. They refrain from any activities that are rooted in any emotion as emotions usually lead to foolish actions. Especially emotions of anger, revenge, hate and fear. These are guaranteed to cause lasting spiritual baggage.


Shaolin has taken the path of using Kung Fu training with aspects of Yoga, Chi Kung and Tai Chi to train the body, mind and spirit and prepare it for right meditation; which in turn can/will lead to Enlightenment. Although Shaolin Kung Fu has been portrayed as a violent and powerful martial art, it is not the way Shaolin Buddhists would use it.


In the Shaolin way of using Kung Fu, the practitioner requires high degrees of control and dedication to master the art to such a degree that they do NOT have to hurt an attacker. As a Buddhist they would rather be hurt themselves than to cause hurt on others. Thus, they learn to be so good at their Kung Fu that they can effectively disarm, stop and placate an opponent without the need of hurting or harming them. And they practice Chi Kung to be able to take the occasional blow, even from a Weapon, without being overly hurt.


Shaolin were real people, with real problems in a country that was constantly engaged in one war or another, territorial disputes and of course the constant invasions by surrounding countries. As such, there were cirstances where Shaolin chose the path of force rather than emptiness. Yet, as with any struggle, occasional setbacks are part of the path and should not be seen as the rule or norm, and these exceptions are definitely not to be aspired to.


Shaolin power lies in its ability to focus on the internal aspects of martial arts. To focus on Health and Well-being, Meditation and Enlightenment. These are not to help Shaolin Monks become superior martial artists, but rather superior Kung Fu is the path to be better Shaolin Buddhists. It is this small but significant difference that defines Shaolin versus the Martial arts that are taught today.

 

[SimplyJakeAndAlex]

Just thinking about it makes me cringe. The pain...!! So much pain! X_X

Yeah that's pretty dangerous indeed:rofl:

 

[Rebel7]

Nice, Jake thanks for the enlightening post

You know, i been doing Yoga for some time now as a way to be more relaxed and focused (it works to some extent) but for a hyperactive guy (also easily excitable) like me i feel like need more space and movement. Also nice to hear it has Buddhist philosophy as basis, having had a gf who's into Buddhism, i'm aquaint to it to some degree.

 

[SimplyJakeAndAlex]

Nice, Jake thanks for the enlightening post

You know, i been doing Yoga for some time now as a way to be more relaxed and focused (it works to some extent) but for a hyperactive guy (also easily excitable) like me i feel like need more space and movement. Also nice to hear it has Buddhist philosophy as basis, having had a gf who's into Buddhism, i'm aquaint to it to some degree.

Than you need something that will immediately provide you with the level of energy you need to spend... Shaolin has a lot of theory into it... it can take a good month before I show a new student actual martial art movements. So I'd say that Taekwondo get you into action immediately... so those pretty much any other martial arts that is mostly based on competitive philosophy. Judo, Hokkaido, Kenpo, Thai Boxing, all of them often goes straight in training and they teach their philosophy at the same time... but Shaolin (or at least the way I've learned it doesn't)... lot of theory, a whole lot.

 

[brmstn69]

Okay that Krav Maga is amazing I love it... it's Ju Jit Su to power of ten, I may just drop thai boxing right now LOL... adding this to my already known technique of Ju Jit Su and Shaolin would make me an even more dangerous weapon :rofl:



Thanks [FONT=&quot]brmstn69 you made me a fan... now I need to find a private teacher

Well... The guy in the video does private instruction, and there's a phone number at the end...[/FONT]