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Being religious or coming out?

richym

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Glen, that is an interesting point to make, unfortuantely I believe that to believe in God is to believe in something that is true, so to throw that out just because it doesn't seem to fit with who we are does not work. Yes it might take some thinking to do, but that's life. It is not always a simple thing, especially trying to understand God, because God is an amazing being, and not easy for us to understand.

Nelson all the best as you struggle with this issue, if you need any help please ask mate.
 

alexfot55

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Being gay is not adverse to being religious.It has to do with the dignity you behave in every aspect of your life.As for the religious fanatics condemning gayiness,they probably do not dare to admit their secret passions,and I speak out of first hand info for many similar cases.
 

topdog

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Very good points being made here. I'll add a couple from my perspective (and I am a Christian).

It's Easy for You to Judge..

It is very easy for straights to rant on about how homosex is vile and the gays all have to repent or go to hell. Easy because they know that they will never face that particular temptation, so it costs them nothing to be as harsh as possible. It reminds me of how Jesus condemned the church elites of his day for forcing the people to follow religious rules that they themselves would never be able to keep. ("Like tying a millstone around their necks" was the way he put it.)

However, if you bring up something that Jesus says very plainly, like for example "It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to get into heaven", then these same people suddenly become very quiet. A literal interpretation of the Bible no longer seems like such a good idea because we are now talking about something that actually might apply to them.

Homosexuals: "Perverts" or "Inverts"?

Next, put the writing of the Bible in this context: Until around 1860, everyone assumed that every person was heterosexual - but some "deviants" insisted on having sex with persons of their own gender. They figured that sometimes these "perverts" became so twisted up inside that they actually preferred same-sex to opposite-sex activity.

It wasn't until the middle of the 19th Century that a scientist saw a pattern in the men in her case studies, and suggested that maybe these people weren't naturally opposite-sex oriented at all, but instead experienced an "inverted" sexuality. They were normal in all aspects, except they were attracted to and formed relationships with men and never women.

And then it wasn't until the 1960's that this concept of differing sexual orientations started moving into popular culture and thought. Today, most people take for granted this idea that many people are straight, but that some people are gay.

Mind the Gap

My point here is that there is a cultural gap between today's Bible readers, and the authors of the ancient texts. When the Bible writers discuss "homosexuals", they are talking about straight people (because they assumed that everyone was straight), having gay sex with each other in various specific instances that they found in their culture. Some examples from biblical times are male prostitutes, pagan worship ceremonies, and the Greek man-boy "apprentice with benefits" relationships. It would never have entered their minds that there were people for whom falling in love with someone of the same sex was as natural as heterosexual love. (They also didn't know that the world is round and that the earth spins around the sun, not the other way around. So, there's a long list of things they didn't know about and couldn't be expected to comment on.)

However when we modern readers see the word "homosexuals" in the Bible, we think of our current understanding of gay people: men who are attracted to and fall in love with men, and women with women. And so we easily misinterpret the passages because the writer was addressing one situation, (temple prostitutes, for example), but we are thinking that they are talking about something else entirely (all gay people).

Easy Answers = Wrong Answers

If we allow the ancient writers to be bind to the actual workings of the solar system, we also have to allow that they were blind on the concept of sexual orientation. Contemporary people are not reading the Bible for guidance on how to deal with temple prostitues or boy apprentices. They are looking for answers on what to do about gay people who will never be attracted to the opposite sex, and just want a home and a life with someone they can love.

That issue is not addressed anywhere directly in the Bible. Christians who want guidance on that topic will have to gather together what the Bible teaches about God's love, grace, and justice and figure things out for themselves.
 
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Sander

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if at any time you are repressed by your religious believes perhaps it's time to take a strong hard look at them. Why are you religious? when did it start, people aren't born christian, jew, whatever, but people are born gay, you can't change that. Religion on the other hand can be. Religion has been used so unbelievably wrong so many times, as a weapon, tool, shield and crutch of ignorance. Do we not have the free thinking ability to know whats right and wrong? Do we need to been told what is right or wrong from a 2000 year old book? Critically think about it.
 

richym

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Sander, I think that you point to the problem with many people's view of religion. Particularly from my perspective as a Chrisitian, religion is bad. We should not just have a list of rules to follow, that if we do the right thing then God will accept us. Rather we are to have a relationship with God. By doing so we choose to act in certain ways, but we are never forced to, and it is most definately not that we should feel that we have to do these things for God to love us. Now unfortunately many people, and saddly probably most churches have spent their time teaching that we have to do all of these lists of rules. And so anyone who is out of the norm is made to feel terrible. It's rubbish. We need to get away from the rules and focus on the fact that God loves us, and just wants us to love him back.
 

Ranlirui

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In all History there is only one hidden reason what makes being gay not important:

A Gay is no good soldier, A Gay is more intelligent which is not good for the goverment.
 
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Sander

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Sander, I think that you point to the problem with many people's view of religion. Particularly from my perspective as a Chrisitian, religion is bad. We should not just have a list of rules to follow, that if we do the right thing then God will accept us. Rather we are to have a relationship with God. By doing so we choose to act in certain ways, but we are never forced to, and it is most definately not that we should feel that we have to do these things for God to love us. Now unfortunately many people, and saddly probably most churches have spent their time teaching that we have to do all of these lists of rules. And so anyone who is out of the norm is made to feel terrible. It's rubbish. We need to get away from the rules and focus on the fact that God loves us, and just wants us to love him back.

I believe being good, moral, ethical what have you is not something your taught, your born it, sure there is the whole nature vs nurture debate which i won't get into because there is no clear winner there. As a Pagan, converted from i think catholic but i dunno, i saw paganism as a much more accepting faith not even religion then any others (well aside from Buddhism too but it seem like to strict a faith for me). If you break down most all religions to their most basic levels, remove all the fluff and names, people ect, most if not all have the same fundamental belief which is to be kind to others. People can't see past that, they give up their free thinking ability to blindly worship and follow something just cuz its old or was passed down.
 

chema

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I agree with Alexfot55:
"Being gay is not adverse to being religious.It has to do with the dignity you behave in every aspect of your life."
I can be gay and love to other persons: family, friends,... I can love to another guy and become his boyfriend. Love, religion and gay sexual love can go together.
 

richym

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Sander, yes as you look at all religions there is a desire to treat others well. I believe that is because the desire to connect with God, and God's imprint has spread throughout the world. We may not all see God the same way, we may not all fully understand God, but we are trying to reach him. And his desire to connect with us is seen in all areas.
I agree with you that you should not just give up your free thinking and follow what you were taught. It is crucial that you question what people tell you to believe. Because ultimately it isn't till you question it, and find out the answers for yourself that it becomes your belief.
 

Jawja

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I grew up in a mildly religious family. When I was about ten or eleven, I decided I thought religion was all pretty ridiculous even though motivated at times by virtue and spirituality. Now I see religion as the curse of mankind...the good deeds done its name are far, far outweighed by the divisiveness and utter evil that result from the actions of overzealous "believers."

The fact that my love for my partner is considered "sinful" is reason enough for me to turn my back on religion altogether.
 

richym

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Jawja, it is sad that we have humans left to run religions. As humans we are not very good with dealing with things that are different, and so they become evil and bad.
I come from a Christian position, and some how the leaders in the church over the years decided that some how sexual sins were the worst, and that therefore it seemed homosexuality was the most terrible thing ever. Yet as you read the Bible you find that all sin is equal, and so no person is worse than another because of what they do. We also have a number of scholars arguing now that what the Bible says about homosexuality is not the wonderful loving relationship you have, but the often abusive relationships of those eras. So I don't believe that your love for your partner is sinful, I think it is a wonderful thing that God smiles upon. I guess I would just say don't let the stupidity of humans get in the way of you seeing God's love. And good luck with ur relationship, I hope you and your partner are really happy.
 

Stonecold

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I agree with Glenn, it amazes me that educated people can get depressed over what some people think some ancient book says. I guess I was lucky and knew in my heart who and what I was and knew I wasn't bad. I think people that have problems with Christianity and being Gay need to seek help. The best way is to truly study the bible.
"The best cure for Christianity is reading the Bible." Mark Twain.

One book I would recommend you read is the book of Judges. I doubt that there is any book out there that could possibly top that dreadful book in terms of violence and sheer cruelty. I had never heard of a man cooking his daughter in celebration of a military victory until I read that book in the bible.
 

richym

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Yeah Stonecold, there are some pretty terrible things happen in the book of Judges. But it reflects the period that it is recording. Study history, and you quickly discover that people do terrible things. In no way is the book of Judges saying that is the right thing to do, rather it records what happened, showing that the heroes didn't always do the right thing, sometimes they messed up. I would rather follow the Bible where we see humans who mess up, than some great supposidly holy people.
But I do agree with the statement, we really need to read the Bible. As we do that then we discover that some of the assumptions that we have made, and that the church has told us simply are not true.
 

name

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I think you should drop the religion bit. I think you'll feel better about yourself. This man Christopher Hitchens is one of my heroes. You should watch/listen to this 15 min video showcasing his comments and opinions on religion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQorzOS-F6w


Exactly.

You have been indoctrinated by your parents into a dogmatic system that is based on a book of myths and fairy tales. This system labels you and everyone here as sinners because when "god" created you he decided to create you a homosexual. This, of course, doesn't make any sense nor should it - religion supresses reason and questioning your faith is not encouraged.

My advice - be done with religion and become a free man.
 

richym

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Hey name,
I hate religious people who tell you that you just have to believe. We have to question what we believe, firstly because if we don't, then it's not our belief, it is just something that someone has told us. But the Bible encourages us to question, to ask why we believe things. To check out what others are telling us to make sure that it is right. Yes religion will try to trap us into just believing what the establishment says. True faith has us engage with our beliefs.
 
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