can you trust anyone online?

[DJCyrus81]

NEVER trust anyone online, unless you met him personally

 

[Tjerk12]

It seems unlikely that the reliability of a person changes when he goes online. There are good people and bad people. Happily the majority is good. Humans have an instinct to protect themselves from bad people: the first impression by first sight. Unfortunately civilization invented all kind of cover ups for the natural signs that expose unreliability. Expensive clothes, make-up, impressive cars and especially money can fool your judgement. In fact the chance that a deceiver wears bad clothes; drives a rotten car and can’t show any money is very little, since it are tools they work with.
On the internet you miss the possibility of first sight (unless you both have a camera). So you have to form an impression by the exchange of words and thoughts. And there comes a major advantage: time. Normally swindlers don’t give you the time to think properly. On the internet you can arrange your own time schedule. So when you don’t blindfold yourself by wishful thinking, the internet offers you far more possibilities to unmask cheaters.
A second advantage of missing the first sight possibility on the internet is that you are far more open for the real personality of a person. A person can be ugly at the outside, but surprising beautiful at the inside.
I made a lot of digital friends. Some of these friends became real friends (even sex friends).
All my life my starting point has been trust. I trust people. Seldom is that trust violated. But one should have realistic expectations. Wishful thinking is dangerous. Use your brain.
I never trust organizations. Most people have a conscience. Organizations have a lot of properties, but no conscience. People who work in organizations can easily hide behind the rules of an organization and salve their conscience. I am an old man and have a lot of experience on that matter: never trust a government (even not on the internet).

 

[Tjerk12]

Nilstreet I think we have a different interpretation of the word trust. Such can have a cultural background, I suppose. In The Netherlands trust means that you belief it is okay. You are not sure about it. So you trust the ice is thick enough to stand on. When you want to be sure, you have to drill a hole in it and measure the thickness. So when I trust somebody I think he is reliable. What you describe we would call a trustful friend. Nice to see, that things are different all over the world.

 

[Tjerk12]

Nilstreet, you are right, people change. But also the meaning of a word can change. In medieval times the word fear had no emotional meaning but was a pragmatic expression of expectation. The word trust went the opposite direction. In my country trust meant an emotional feeling. Nowadays it devaluated more or less to the military expression friend or foe. An object or a person is suspected friendly or hostile (causes harm). This development is understandable (but I am not happy with it) because in modern life people often give their destiny in the hands of strangers, without the possibility (or lack of time) to check if they can trust that stranger (traffic, cars, busses, trains, airplanes). Even when you are able to check things it may appear so complicated that it is impossible. A Dutch director of a charity organisation had to put a very large amount of money on a bank. Ice Save offered the highest interest. So he tried to get information about the reliability of the bank. He consulted the Dutch National Bank and several other specialists in bank business. All guaranteed that things were save. A week after he placed several millions on Ice Save, the bank went bankrupt. And the money was gone.
When you deal with people, at least they have a conscience and what maybe more important, they have a face. When you deal with big organisations, they have no conscience and thousands of faces. Normally the Government is the biggest organisation in a country. One of the top lawyers in The Netherlands declared in an interview: never fight a government. They have a nearly endless source of money; the best lawyers and if necessary they hire even better ones. Not to seek justice, but to win the case. Of course, people who work for big organisations (as a Government) do not differ from “normal” people. They are people like you and me. But it is the organisation that makes the difference.
But in your interpretation of the word trust, I must agree that your conclusions are correct. Nice talking to you, brain fitness.

 

[JonnyFantastico]

Hmmm... for some reason, an experience I went through comes to mind when reading this thread... I put it up as a blog on my MySpace long ago, but I feel like it needs to be re-shared here. There are some great points already expressed and I hope you can appreciate someone who has actually asked this question to himself time and time again...

This is Tyson Scott Radcliff. Tyson is a 24 year old co-CEO of a construction company in Richmond, VA. His mother passed away about one year ago and he lives alone with his dog, Jordan. He has a sister, Samantha and is extremely close to his entire family, so much so that he is usually found at his sister's home, rather than his own. While there, he lives with his two sisters, one nephew and grandmother.

We met in the AOL Chat Room "Gay Man's 20's" through another person I know. He had been trying to get over his ex-boyfriend, Shawn. Apparently, Tyson tried to be with Shawn and Shawn more or less played him and the relationship never happened, leaving Tyson devastated. Tyson even went as far as to send plane tickets to Shawn... Shawn ripped them up. Tyson offered to come out there. Shawn told me no for different reasons. Tyson sent Shawn money... which Shawn used, for other things; his cell phone bill to talk to other men. But, I've been there to patch his heart up and show him that I was there for him. Also, he tends not to eat too much, works out to the point of exhaustion and then works long hours on top of that.

And for four months, he was my boyfriend.

There wasalways been something off about Tyson's story, but I didn't know what. For one, if he had the means to live alone, why was he always at his sister's house? I understand being close to your family and all, but he was always there (his reasoning was that his job site was much closer to his sister’s place, so he stayed there often).

He had a habit of believing everything that everyone else said before listening to anything I had a chance to explain things. And he had a weird jealous streak, considering I knew people in the chat room before he did. Although my friends; chat and actual, told me many times that I should just leave him alone, I defended his actions; thinking that it was more or less about a trust issue, so I kept taking him back and forgiving him. Eventually, the trust issue faded and he opened up more to me over time.

But I still had that feeling something was wrong...

After some initial dramatics, things were going great for Tyson and I; so much so that we had been telling each other that we loved each other (this was 4 months into our “relationship”; so don’t think this was a fast thing). We had discussed me possibly visiting there and decided to make it official. He wanted to take care of everything, considering he had the assets to do so. So, he offered to pay for my tickets and just about everything else. I gave him my info and he told me I could invite anyone I wanted; but since most of my closest friends were busy, I would be going alone. He would also send me some money to cover my safe trip there. Everyone on his side knew I was coming and vice versa. I planned to tell my mother and my close friends the info to get in contact with me, which he definitely was good with. So, after being super confused with the Priceline and Orbitz ticket websites, he decided it would be best to let his father make the arrangements. His father paid for the tickets with his credit card and they were sent to his house this past Thursday. From there, they would be sent to me and should have arrived here that following Saturday.

After being excited and nervous, I awoke to find… that the tickets didn’t come.

Now, I probably should’ve thought differently, but the mail does mess up all of the time, so I just assumed that it was possible that they were lost in the mail; so I called his house, where his grandmother answered. I told her to tell Tyson to call me immediately and she agreed.

To get over the disappointment, I decided to head out to a party with some friends. When I came back home; about midnight, I received an e-mail from Tyler (Tyson's best friend)… and the news was not good.

That day; Tyson had been involved in a serious car accident. He passed out at the wheel due to malnourishment and was admitted to the hospital with a broken leg; several broken ribs and a punctured lung. He underwent surgery and is currently breathing with some assistance. He said that Tyson’s father had my number and would be in contact with me to update Tyson’s condition and he would do the same. In turn, I told Tyson’s ex; considering they still spoke from time to time. He was just as shocked as I was, if not more and I told him I would keep him updated.

Considering my worry and of not knowing much, I decided I would find a way around it. After not getting much help from Tyson’s grandmother (who said I was calling the house too late), I remembered that Tyler had told me what hospital Tyson was in. So, I called information and found out the number; figuring that I could at least possibly find out something. Once I got the number, I called and asked for info regarding Tyson Radcliff:

“I’m sorry, sir. But there is no Tyson Radcliff registered here.”

“Um… are you sure. R-A-D-C-L-I-F-F?”

“Yes, sir. There is no one here by that name.”

“Um… can you check under Tyson Scott?”

“Sure. *types and after a few seconds* There’s no one here by that name, either.”

The receptionist went as far as to ask the extent of his injuries and to see if they matched someone who had been unclaimed. Since Tyler told me his family was there, I knew that was possible, but I told her what I knew… and there was someone there with those injuries, but they were not in their 20’s; not even close.

It really should've clicked then, but I was still worried to believe anything bad about it. So, I went online and found the numbers of every hospital in Richmond. There were 8; 6 of them being actual hospitals. So, thanks to my unlimited long distance service; I called them all and they all said the same thing: no Tyson Radcliff was registered.

Now, I was pissed… how could someone go so out of the way to cover their asses? This was beyond unfair and rude and cruel. On top of that, my friends were right all along and Tyson DEFINITELY wasn’t the one for me. I knew they were defending my honor (rightfully as a friend should), but because I had fought for him so hard and so long, it was hard to admit defeat and worrying about any “I told you so” comments.

The next morning, I let his ex, Shawn in what I had found out. And from there, what we unearthed about Tyson’s stories could be approved for Academy Award nominations:

1) Tyson had never given Shawn anything. He made promises of tickets, money and other gifts; none of which Shawn ever received. On top of that, Shawn was promised that Tyson would fly out to visit him and that also never occurred. This was the real reason behind their break-up: Tyson’s continuous lies.

2) Tyson didn’t have his own place. He actually lived with his sister (which explained why the number always came up under her name and never his). Also, his cell phone voice mail was never set up, which made me wonder if it was his in the first place.

3) His actual money value as well as his profession have both come into question.

4) “Tyler” may actually be Tyson, considering the similarities of their names.

5) Tyson had a "chat friend" named Rick, who once told Shawn that Tyson is a compulsive liar and that he should never believe a word Tyson said.

6) It also turns out that Tyson was secretly trying to get back with Shawn. The “game” he was playing was really incentive to get back with Shawn.

And the biggest one:

7) Tyson did not even live in Richmond, Virginia. After all was said and done, I Googled his area code. 304 is an area code in West Virginia, not Richmond.

Now, this story should’ve ended there and it did; pretty much. Tyson and I were more or less over… except that he called me with tears in his eyes; denouncing all of Shawn’s words. He admitted to be that he did truly live in West Virginia and he lied to me only to make sure that I was real about us and it was his only secret. I was so stuck on what to believe. I made a decision.

I wouldn’t sever all ties yet. Not until I knew the full truth about it all. Just in case I was misunderstanding things or this was a long game, I needed to know. I deserved to know.

And I found out everything I needed about 2 weeks later.

Earlier that week, Tyson signed onto AIM on his cell phone. His cell phone was receiving my messages a bit later than I had been sending them and I told him it might be best to respond once he got home. About an hour later, Tyson’s screen name was still signed in under his cell phone and I sent him a message.

Someone replied back to me saying that he wasn’t there and that they had just dropped him off at his home following work.

I apologized to this person; all the while thinking, “Wait. Wasn’t he signed in on his own cell phone?” I pretty much knew something was up, so I kept the conversation going. The person replying was his co-worker; a woman named Stephanie. She seemed nice and understood and ignored my error… which is when I had an epiphany. She worked with Tyson and if I couldn’t get anything out of him, this would be my only chance to find out anything.

So, I gave her a response that would get the flood gates open: “Well, I know he’s tired from working in construction all day; so I’m glad he had someone to take him home.”

Her answer: “Huh?”

I repeated the statement and she said, “Well, unless he has another job, I have no idea what you’re talking about. He works with me at the gas station.”

Gas station. Construction. Yeah.

From that point on; the floodgates opened. She gave me all of the info on him I could’ve possibly wanted… and then some.

His real name was David Posey. He was 27 years old and from a totally different part of West Virginia than he “admitted” to. Also, he was married (to Samantha Posey; the woman he had said was his sister) with 2 young daughters; the same two little girls he told me were his nieces. He lived in a trailer and the picture he sent wasn’t even of him. She gave me a totally different description of him. Also, there was no "Tyler", either.

This story could’ve ended much worse. For example, I could’ve never gotten to write this; if you follow what I’m saying with this. Which is why the main gist of it is this: BE CAREFUL AT ALL COSTS.

I am not saying that everyone online is a horrible person who will cause you harm. Granted, I have met many people from the internet and most of them are very good and true. Their stories have never changed; their pictures never suddenly look different and they are generally amazing people. But there are always bad apples in the patch and this was one of those times. So, be cautious above all else and protect yourself if you do decide to meet someone from the internet. Bring your friends with you, make sure that nothing is secretive and of course: ask as many questions as you need to and continue to ask questions as time goes on. Make sure nothing ever changes.

To paraphrase something Tyler Perry once said as his popular character Madea: “I was so good at asking questions, I would be up to question 217 and still be able to go back to question number 10 that I asked months ago.” You need to be this smart, people.

But in truth, I did do this and something still didn’t feel right. Always listen to that little person inside of you. It will never steer you wrong. Although I muted mine for a bit; after a while, I let him speak and it brought me to the truth I needed.

Oh... and the picture he provided? It was a cast member from "The Real World"; a season that I had missed. Go figure, huh?

 

[jw4833]

Hmmm... for some reason, an experience I went through comes to mind when reading this thread... I put it up as a blog on my MySpace long ago, but I feel like it needs to be re-shared here. There are some great points already expressed and I hope you can appreciate someone who has actually asked this question to himself time and time again...

WOW...WOW...WOW...WTF??!!!! Dude...I am TOTALLY with you on that...I also had some really bad experiences with some guys online and that made me very cautious with submitting photos...especially face photos...the few that I had submitted had wound up being submitted to gay porn studios where they were photoshopped to look more provocative or my body shots were photoshopped with another head/face..I was constantly hounded by porn studios which is not my thing ...all because someone whom I had exchanged pics with broke our confidentiality and took it somewhere that I didn't expect of this person. But, you live and learn...with all that you have endure during this situation, I have to tell you..You're still fortunate and blessed..because I had a best friend who went through similar formalities as you did, however, the guy came to our city to visit him and this trip ended with the guy robbing him and leaving him dead in his own house for days before being discovered...you see where I'm going with this??? So, what I do is because I have so much going on in my life at the present, in order to take a break from everything, I get online just for chat..maybe every now and then if I'm feeling flirty, I will submit a few body shots..but nothing with my face. Now, not saying that there are no genuine people online..but there are far and few in between than what is...I even had a guy who flew into town to my city's airport and had kept emaling me that he was in town and wanted me to pick him up at the airport without us even having a conversation about him visiting in which I would have never confirmed due to the fact that I just started chatting with two weeks prior..and by the end of the first couple of days of chat..he was a total turnoff because he was acting as if we were a couple and we were in love ????? ..he found out my city/state location from my profile page..I'm a strong believer that when things happen in your life, they are either to make you stronger or a learning experience to make you wiser..you cannot learn anything unless you've been there to be able to relate....think about it...Thanks so much for sharing your story...

 

[odyssey1989]

aaaaaaaa No :no:

 

[Fredric13]

Trust Online

When I came out, I was living in a very conservative community and didn't know any gay people. I came out to my family and after a rather nasty scene with my best friend, very few others. I continued to live very closeted almost with a belief that there were no real gays in the world. It was all a trap.

Grudgingly, I came out to a girl with whom I'd developed a friendship. She blackmailed me into a two year marriage until I could get the money together, leave town and start a new life somewhere else.

I guess my point is that, after my limited experiences, I can't trust even real people. I mostly stick to an online life making no promises and taking everything everyone says with a huge grain of salt.X_X

 

[Tjerk12]

Boys, it’s really sad to read such stories. To get cheated hurts. And the great danger of it is that it can destruct the basic fundaments of life: to feel save and secure. As you can see is cheating not exclusive for the internet. I have now for more than 30 years my own small business. In that position you are vulnerable for cheating. Yet it happened only once that I had a client who was a real cheater. Several times I had people who did not pay their bill, but that was always because they did not have the money. Things went wrong for those boys, so finally it went also wrong for me. But only once there was a person who really planned in advance not to pay. For a while it destructed my trust in people. But I didn’t like to live like that. So I restored my attitude and started to trust people again. And I am happy I did . I must admit that I have little experience with Chat sites. I tried once, but I did not like the atmosphere. Normally you have little methods to test the reliability of a situation. Actually I couldn’t find any for that situation. For me Chat sites are a bit surrealistic. But perhaps that’s the result of my age.

 

[JonnyFantastico]

Don't get me wrong, guys; yeah, I have been cheated by certain people in life as well as online, but I don't think the majority of people are bad. Like here on GH: I have made some amazing friends and good accomplices that are incredibly sweet and caring (you guys know who you are and you know your place in my heart). You can't lump everyone into one group because that's just unfair and you might miss out on some great connections. Without a certain person who used to be here on GH (that will go unnamed), I would've never found some very sweet friends (WTF, iotbg, XMan, Jimmy, Mike... the list goes on and on). Without those bad people in my real life, I never would've had the true friends I have now.

It's all about the lesson you take with you at the end of the day. We grow from this pain and we learn things about ourselves that we never probably thought of. In a small sense, you have to thank the negative because without it; you would never find the positive. :heart:

 

[StarG]

I met a fellow (years before chat rooms, facebook, etc) - in a bar - who was in town for a 2-week seminar. We hit it off; had dinner several times. Then he went back to the midwest where we kept up a weekly phone call for several months. We planned a trip for him to come back to FL to stay with me for a holiday weekend. He told me his father was "cool' and paying for the ticket. Got the flight time, etc -went to the airport, he wasn't on the flight. Called several times over several days, voice recorder every time - never heard from him again. Weird... but human nature has all kinds - even before eLife.

 

[XMan101]

So true. I've had good & bad both on & offline and even before online ever happened.

It never stopped me trusting again, far more I've found to be honest than not, and it's a better feeling to trust than not trust, although being wary until you know more is always a good thing, and that goes for all of life, not just anyone online.

 

[imadorky]

i love evryone
believe? why not ?

 

[diklik]

Believe with caution!

As a bi guy who is older than many on this site, and whose personal kinks tend toward the BDSM side of life :butslap:, I have learned to be very wary of people on the internet. Back in the dark ages before the WWW, personal ads in newspapers and gay mags were about the only way to make contact. Although they were just as potentially fraudulent as many personal ads are on the net - at least it was only a short time of them screwing around before they were blacklisted or banned from publishing their come-on ads with no response or (worse yet) blackmail attempts. Since the advent of email, IMs, and social networking sites, many thousands of innocent guys could be hurt by just one jerk playing games.

I would advise any newbie here to take all of it with a grain of salt....be careful and accept no one at face value until you can exchange a few emails and maybe a phone call if that feels comfy for you. One needs to get a sense of who they are interacting with, and email is great for hiding behind a false persona.

Be careful and play safe. Special note if you hookup with strangers for any play, let a trusted buddy know all the address and contact details. If you don't show up back at home in reasonable time, at least someone you trust can look for you or get help if needed.

 

[dismal]

Hmmm, mine answer is: YES i can trust someone online.

In mine community fess up to be gay is... like social suicide. Noone really knows any gay in real, but they assume, that they're bad and they're like not humans, lol. That's why it's impossible for me (and others) to find anyone in real and get to know with him. Here comes the web with dating services, where i seek for someone for me .

Actually im getting to know one man. I know him only for a 2 months, but i trust him very much and - it's the first time i got the feeling - i think i feel in love with him. He's older than me (much older, about 28y difference between us) and I live about 600km from him, but i know, it's not a problem for us. Next month we want to meet for the first time in real (NOT for sex, only to spend time together) and then we'll decide if we want to continue our relationship. For now i hope he's the one for me and i'd like to move to his place one day. Not now, not in next year, but as soon as it will be possible i'd like to do this.

So, all in all: yes, i can trust and i can fall in love with someone online .

Have a good day everyone

 

[braex27]

Yes, but cautiously so.

 

[noordon]

i trust few guys only