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Gay marriage - is it really all that?

AleXXX UK

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Personally I think it means very little indeed. Our former colony, America still has a long way to go. In the UK after we invented homosexuality in our public schools, gays were granted not only civil partnerships but full blown marriage. Not only that, straight couples themselves now have a choice of not only marriage but civil partnerships. Unlike you, we have a true separation of State and Church.;)
 
S

Stoic

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I don't get it.

Are you dissing gay marriage?

Are you dissing USA's gay marriage?

Are you dissing USA as a country?
 

gb2000ie

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I don't quite follow the logic of the opening post, but I do think gay marriage is very important.

Marriage is a very important structure within our society, it's how we define people who have chosen to live as a couple legally. Even if you don't give a monkeys about the emotional importance of making a commitment in front of your friends and family, the practical legal stuff is really important. It comes down to the very basics like inheritance rights, pension rights, hospital visitation rights, and next of kin rights.

Civil unions can give some of this stuff, but, separate but equal is just a bad idea that we know doesn't work. For that reason I think we need full marriage equality in the eyes of the law. What churches choose to do is their business, their prejudices should not be enshrined in the laws of a nation.

B.
 

jw4833

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In respect of how things are ran in your country in regard to acceptance, I can see your perspective on the matter. However, things of that nature is important here in the USA because gay people do not have the privileges of acceptability that are associated with sexual orientation as your country and that is why this is such an important matter whether you have gay people that are with or against gay marriage. The principal of the matter is that they should be able to have that option to do so as straight couples do. But then again, we in the USA are not subjected to severe violence ramifications as other countries in regard to homosexuality like for example; Israel and other Middle Eastern countries. Consider your country lucky in that respect. What I am proud of is the fact that my country has come a long way with acceptance of gay people because it has become an important topic of discussion and you have parties that did not share an interest in making sure that gay people have the same marriage rights as straight people, are supportive in making this happen even though there are some individuals who still do not believe that they are entitled. Nonetheless, I'm happy to see that this is a work in progress. I mean, after all of the years, who would have thought that we would have our first black president, but we do. Therefore, although things have progressed very slowly in this respect, but the outcome is that things are looking very promising for change and that's what matters to me.
 
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AleXXX UK

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I don't quite follow the logic of the opening post, but I do think gay marriage is very important.

Marriage is a very important structure within our society, it's how we define people who have chosen to live as a couple legally. Even if you don't give a monkeys about the emotional importance of making a commitment in front of your friends and family, the practical legal stuff is really important. It comes down to the very basics like inheritance rights, pension rights, hospital visitation rights, and next of kin rights.

Civil unions can give some of this stuff, but, separate but equal is just a bad idea that we know doesn't work. For that reason I think we need full marriage equality in the eyes of the law. What churches choose to do is their business, their prejudices should not be enshrined in the laws of a nation.

B.

The UK and Europe in general is very secular. I'm a little struck by Obama and Romney. Mixing religion and politics is a big no-no down here. It's a sure fire way to be yourself labelled a religious looney.

With all public sector jobs you can assign your same sex partner to inherit and benefit for your pensions and all financial assets and inheritance. In the same way, if you divorce your partner you risk losing everything. My point is that if you choose to partner up a certificate won't make a darned bit of difference to your relationship, al least not in Europe.

In fact its the straights that seem to be fighting for equal non-religious rights with gays here. America seems to be a little behind the times here.

Gay rights and abortion don't even come close to making it on the political agenda this sida the pond
 
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AleXXX UK

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Lets say if all straight people move to civil partnerships its better.
 
S

Sinnerr

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I think it's not all, but it's a lot. For somone less, for someone more. It's a law which makes equality of rights. Life is not about law, love is not about document. But when straight couples can get it, if they want it's cool that you can too, if you want.
I would say it's more important for guys who are from religious/traditional familly/enviroment, than for me - guy from country where is cca 80% of population atheist/agnostic. And where cca half of str8 couples who are also parents aren't married and don't plan it neither. I'm glad in my country is possibility to have "registered partnership", althought I'm single at the moment and also too young to "marry". I would be more glad if it would mean absolutely same rights as straight "marriage" but I don't care about its name.
 

tonka

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America is behind Europe for gay rights, but what's striking is that the issue is moving forward pretty rapidly.
In 2004, the republicans made opposition to gay rights a signature issue, and they won. Eight years later, they only talk about it if they are asked, and answer in the blandest terms possible.

Gay marriage rights at the federal level really would matter for some people. Immigration rights, pension rights. As a political issue, it's a signal. Does this candidate respect his fellow citizens, or is he an asshole?
 

bigsal

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Do not lose sight of two important points:
Love and rights.
But above all, the right to love.
 

gb2000ie

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My point is that if you choose to partner up a certificate won't make a darned bit of difference to your relationship, al least not in Europe.

Actually - it will make all the difference in the world!

In Ireland, when one partner dies, the spouse can inherit everything tax-free. A live-in-lover can't, meaning the death of one partner is likely to cost the other the house.

Similarly, if one partner falls ill, without the piece of paper the other partner hasn't even got visitation rights, let alone the power of attorney. If the family of the ill partner is on good terms with the healthy partner, then there will be no problem, the family will defer to the partner, but, if the family are hostile to the partner they would have the legal right to stop hospital visits and to take over power of attorney.

In more day-to-day stuff it also affects your tax bands and your entitlement to various benefits.

Finally, while the government in the UK may be good enough to allow partners to take over pensions, not everyone works for the UK government, and not every government is as forward thinking. Unless you are married, if you die your employer has ever right NOT to give your partner a widow's pension.

In fact its the straights that seem to be fighting for equal non-religious rights with gays here. America seems to be a little behind the times here.

What is there to fight for? If you don't want a church involved you can just have a civil wedding. You've been able to do that for as long as I can remember.

Gay rights and abortion don't even come close to making it on the political agenda this sida the pond

Speak for yourself. If you pop across the Irish sea to the island next to you you'll find a very different reality. Our government are working on a controversial abortion bill this very second!

Generalisations are dangerous - be careful of them!

B.
 

intowner

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I find that the word marriage is the point of greatest resistance. While fighting for the word, people are being denied property, survivorship, guardianship and all kinds of stuff that have been proven to be more-easily acquired in various places around the USA.

Part of me thinks we should focus on that and discuss the word later, but it's not so simple. Separate is never equal. Giving us all the privileges of marriage but not the word is not equal.

Instead, I think we should continue to fight for the word, but also try to get the privileges that they deny us that we can get now until we get the word to go with it. I'd rather be able to visit my guy in the hospital over being able to say "married" until we are able to say it.
 
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