Homophobic attacks

[Jamie]

Hmmm..did you guys hear on TV about that arab..talliban...islamist or whatever nation he was...about this guy who joined the gay forums and/or communities so he can meet gay people and kill them in the name of Allah almighty? LOL! That scared the hell out of me

 

[iFairylicious]

Oo WHAT THE FUCK?!?!

 

[Irishman25]

eek that is sick!
hear about the yng trainee cop in the UK who was set upon by 5 teens outside a gay pub cause he was gay?

 

[Jamie]

When did I start this thread? LOL! I remember writing that but can`t recall where..in what thread
And it is true. They showed on a romanian channel a few weeks ago..not more than a month I think...cause I remmeber I was so like:WTF! Jesus! These are nuts, darn tallibans or islams...it was one guy who believed in Allah and whatever..LOL

 

[XMan101]

eek that is sick!
hear about the yng trainee cop in the UK who was set upon by 5 teens outside a gay pub cause he was gay?

It was more than 5, more like 15 or more I think. They were all aged around 14 to 16 years old and just hanging around outside this gay bar.

The poor guy is critical in hospital with multiple head injures , a fractured eye socket. If he recovers it may even be the end of his career before it's started.

Apparently this kind of thing often goes unreported and is becoming more and more common in British cities! They are bringing out a law that any homophobic abuse will be a punishable hate crime. whether it does any good remains to be seen, but kids that age have probably got parents who don't care where they are of what they get up to.

The word "gay" is often used now to mean something bad, and that has probably filtered into the psyche of some of these thugs! Never like hearing that word used in this way, I'll always pull someone up on it.

You think it's the age of enlightenment, well there is still a big hill to climb sadly

 

[iFairylicious]

Well remember in the US tomorrow (Wednesday) that they are going to make that Matthew Shepard Hate Crime Bill in effect so if you have someone come attack you you could be like bye bye fucker when you get arrested you will be in jail for a LOOOOOOONG time!

 

[glamfunk84]

Always watch who you hang out with, test them out before being open with them.

 

[iFairylicious]

totally true dear!

 

[goejavin]

Well remember in the US tomorrow (Wednesday) that they are going to make that Matthew Shepard Hate Crime Bill in effect so if you have someone come attack you you could be like bye bye fucker when you get arrested you will be in jail for a LOOOOOOONG time!

Well, I don't think I'd go that far...just as the death penalty doesn't serve as a detterent, I'm pretty sure anyone out to bash a gay person isn't going to care about the consequences. In fact, as it stands, there are 32 States with hate laws based on Sexual Orientation (11 of those that include transgender) so in many areas the penalties already exist. This law allows the Federal Government to prosecute IF its determined that the State has not or is unable to (because of no laws) prosecute a crime as a hate crime based on the cirstances. God knows how many crimes go unreported or are covered up to prevent prosecution. And then we have a very understaffed, over burdened US Attorneys office that must make the determination on pursing prosecution and then prosecute. If we have any reason to feel better about it is that we have a Democratic Administration. With republicans and conservative christians opposed to the Bill, how likely will there be a rush to prosecute when the Republicans take over?

Its all sad but true. And while it is a milestone, as one mother of a murdered son said, this "is not the end of the fight. We need to change the hearts and minds." Unfortunately, those with venom in their hearts, and there are many, just wont give a shit.

So, I say take the Integritas approach. I would also suggest just not straying alone if at all possible. And I dare say that more gay-related crimes occur in less populated areas in the US...where gay bars especially are located far off the beaten path.

And btw...a pepper spray canister costs $10 around here...I've bought one for every sister and neice I have. They even make them for keyrings. So, better safe than sorry.

 

[laduqesa]

Hmmm..did you guys hear on TV about that arab..talliban...islamist or whatever nation he was...about this guy who joined the gay forums and/or communities so he can meet gay people and kill them in the name of Allah almighty? LOL! That scared the hell out of me

Any chance of a link to this allegation?

 

[dargelos]

The original post was too far back to remember where it came from but this is not an allegation, this is a fact of life in Russia and Iran, I have heard of this from Syria and Saudi Arabia, and no doubt other countries too, but what I really have to say, ref the post above yours, a pepper spray will not deter a queer basher, it will be used against you.

 

[brmstn69]

a pepper spray will not deter a queer basher, it will be used against you.

No, but with proper training a .45 and the willingness to use it will...

 

[brmstn69]

The problem about weapons is that you have to be prepared to kill with them if you draw them. At that point there is no deescalation possible anymore from your end. If you don't look like you could kill, people who are used to aggression will still attack you. Therefore looking harmless forces you to act.

Which the end just means: Most likely you have to kill or seriously hurt them and you make that decision the moment you take them along. Which of course sounds fine in a dangerous situation.

I believe I covered this when I said "the willingness to use it"... I fought and killed in the military to defend people I didn't know or even really give a shit about, I have no issues with killing to protect myself or loved ones...

But at which point do you decide that this degree of escalation is fitting.

Part of "proper training" is knowing when, if ever drawing a weapon is necessary. In the 20 plus years I've carried firearms, I've only drawn once. I was working at a liquor store and some dumb-ass tried to impress his girlfriend by scaring me with a cigarette lighter gun. I was a much faster draw and the only thing that impressed his girlfriend was the amount of urine he left on my floor. Pulling a gun should always be a last resort. I've been in many fights and altercations, some that have left me seriously injured (broken jaw, orbital socket, busted knee, etc,), I've had guns pulled on me and even been shot, and still didn't find it necessary to draw my weapon. But it's nice to have it if it ever becomes necessary...

Plus you also have a weapon to lose, which could get in the wrong hands and be used to hurt your or even others who have nothing to do with that situation. So when there is a minor incident, the stakes get suddenly absurdly high, simply by your very own choice to bring a weapon along. Someone wants to steal your money? It might be just a few bucks. But you have the weapon. So you are forced to protect your gun with your gun and end up living with shooting somebody because of the five dollars you would have lost...

That argument is akin to saying "he was asking to be mugged, walking around in that fancy suit with the expensive watch" or "she was asking to get raped dressed like that" and chances are that if you only have a few bucks, it'll just piss them off and they will hurt you for spite...

In the end this ends up in sort of a "high noon" mentality where everybody is forced to act first. The result is easily visible in the USA, when suspects get hurt or killed without having a proper reason except bad expectations, because a cell phone or a soda can just looked too much like weapon in the dark.

No, you very seldom hear about the judicious use of firearms because it's not news worthy. What you do hear about is racist cops that are trigger happy because they think the are above the law and idiots like Martin Zimmerman who go out looking for trouble. But for every bad cop and Zimmerman there are 10,000 cases of firearms being used properly to save lives you never hear about...

 

[franklyn]

Homophobia is as old as the planet and goes back to the time that Moses went up Mt. Sinai and wrote all theat crap about Mankind lying with Mankind as he would with Womenkind.

Tha fact is that there are people who are always looking for someone to hate and base their hatred on religion. Traditionally hated was leveled at Jews but Antisemitism has has reached new levels and is financed by the Muslim world where being Gay is at best a flogging offense although in many countries Gays are executed. However, because of oil and the fact that the Arab Oil Sheiks have bought their way in controlling some of the biggest companies in the world as well as sport, the civilized world would rather appease than act and this is what these sub-humans who call themselves Islamic State or more correctly Da'ash are feeding on.

Of course we all know the plight of Gays in Russia and the Ukraine where the Gay Pride Parade was broken up and we must ask how different the Conservatives in the great USA from those who slaughter homosexuals?

 

[brmstn69]

No, it is much more like bringing your little sister along in a short skirt. The stakes get higher.

When a boy gets shot because he ran around with a toy gun, it happened because of the probability that the gun could be real. You don't reduce that probability by injecting more and more guns into a society.
Because they don't exist. There are probably indeed 10000 cases of firearms not getting used at all, which is about as safe as having no firearms at all.

Also keep in mind that not everybody is a trained killer.

I'm not going to get into a debate on firearms here, it's pointless as I have little chance of bringing you over to my side, and you have zero chance of convincing me to join your camp...

But, I will say that your argument of escalation is invalid, because we're not talking about about a robbery or a mugging.

This thread is about gay-bashers, people whose primary objective is injure, maim, or kill you. There is no hand it over and you won't be harmed. They have every intent on harming you no matter what. There is little room for escalation because somebody IS GOING TO GET HURT. And given that bashers are nothing but cowards and will not fight you man to man, you can almost guarantee that they will be armed themselves, be it knives, clubs, a baseball bat, tire iron, gun, etc. or there will be multiple attackers. That leaves you with only two options. Submit to their attack and hope they stop short of doing serious harm or killing you, or fight back.

I for one, have very little faith that people of such character will find enough restraint to not take things too far.

And believe me, I know what I'm talking about here because I was the victim of a particularly brutal gay-bashing that left me crippled.

I used to drink a lot, and I had gotten a DWI and was out of jail on bail, therefore I wasn't carrying any weapons what so ever. I also had my drivers license suspended, so instead of driving I was riding a scooter.
I was visiting some gay friends, very obvious gay friends, everybody in the neighborhood knew they were gay and that all their friends were gay as well.

I got on my scooter and as I was leaving the parking lot I passed three teens, two boys about 19 and girl who was 17. As I rode past one of the boys hit me upside the head with a tire iron. I fell over with the scooter landing on top of me, and the guys pounced on me hitting me with the iron, kicking me, but I still managed to make it back to my feet and get a couple of blows in myself. That's when the girl, who turned out to be the one calling the shots, pulled a gun pointed it at me and tried to shoot me. By sheer dumb luck the pistol she was using, a.40 semi-automatic had a magazine disconnect safety (the gun won't fire without a magazine, even when a round is chambered) and the stupid bitch hit the mag release as she drew it, dropping the magazine to the ground. The gun wouldn't fire, lol...

So in her frustration, she proceeded to pistol whip me as the two guys held me down. When she tired of that and decided to look for the pistols magazine she dropped, the guys went back to work kicking and hitting me with the tire iron again.

That's when one of my friends stepped out for a smoke and saw what was happening. He called the others out, but being the silly queens they are, rather than jump in and help me, they just yelled at the attackers that they were calling the police.

Faced with witnesses, they abandoned their attack and fled, one on my scooter.

To their credit, the police did catch them twenty minutes later.

I was left with my face a bloody pulp. A shattered orbital socket, half my teeth knocked out, and a severely busted leg and knee. I now have a limp and have to use a cane for any distance greater than a few blocks.

There was no justice though, our lazy ass prosecutor, even though he had a slam dunk case here with charges of...

Assault and battery
Assault with a deadly weapon
Assault with intent to commit bodily harm
Attempted murder
Possession of an illegal weapon
Possession of a weapon by a convicted felon
Use of a firearm in commission of a felony
Armed robbery (my scooter)

Dropped them all in exchange of a guilty plea for simple assault, a misdemeanor...

The boys were both on parole and returned to prison to finish out their original sentence plus 6 months for the assault.

Yeah, 6 fucking months is all they got.

Even worse, little miss thing, because she was still a minor by about 2 months got time served, 6 weeks in juvi and 6 months probation.

I got 18 months for the DWI, how's that for justice?

But Karma is a beautiful bitch... One of the boys got shanked in prison and will be shitting in a bag the rest of his life. The other guy ended up doing a total of five years in prison. Three months after he got out, he beat his girlfriend to death and is now serving a life sentence without parole. And the girl? She died of internal injuries, alone on the bathroom floor, several hours after her boyfriend, only three months out of prison, beat the shit out of her...

On the plus side, I haven't drank since that night. Booze put me in a position where I couldn't carry a weapon to defend my self against this attack, and I won't let it happen again.

If I had my gun then, it might have been enough to scare them off, and it would have definitely been enough to stop them. Who knows? Things could have turned out better for all of us...

But I will tell you that this experience was more traumatic than anything I experienced in combat...

 

[Shelter]

My dear God, Brmstn69, what a bitter story. When happened that? I hope so much you are fully recovered. Wow - this is a story for a movie. And it is similar to what happened two friends of us sometimes ago. They left a bar, kissing on the street and some gay bashers have been insulted from this viewing and kicked them into hospital. That happened in 2014!
Much of luck to you and the best of health. And I truly understand you and your motives.

 

[brmstn69]

And how exactly would you know that you just run into a mugging and therfore leave the gun at home before?
And would they wear uniforms and their goals would be clear, I'd say: everybody takes a rifle and then we clean the world from that s. But the fact is: we don't recognize them and we don't know what exactly are they up to and whether they stop after minor teasing or want blood. I guess in most cases they don't know either. That is the grey zone. The assholes always have the advantage that they can strike first, as they are defined by their aggression. Of course one could kill them the moment the say "faggot" just to get sure nothing worse can happen. Every group has a dynamic and that dynamic can change events in every direction. Unless you can spot that early (which is absolutely possible in some cases and something good policemen are good at) you can recognize where it ends. People not trained for confrontation of that kind can not.

Of course there are clear cases like the one you described: someone pointing a gun at you after already attacking you is a damn obvious case of self-defence. But even in that situation - play through all the alternatives:

They hit you, you try to get your gun, they are faster and then shoot you with it, because, hahah, their gun did not work. Then they go on and use the gun on several occasions because they now have that nice spare gun they can throw away if they have used it enough.

They hit you, you draw your gun, and you shoot immediatly and end up knee-deep in dead bodies without knowing what the outcome would have been, hadn't you done anything.

You don't have time to grab the gun, everything happens as it happens, but the moment they flee, you shoot the fuckers in their backs. Which they deserved. But: did you deserve to be that person?

I am not saying that a weapon could not have helped, but the conditions are by far not as clear as you make them appear. Neither is that "felt" mistake of not arming yourself. There was injustice because the attackers wanted injustice to be there. Even killing them one by one would not have stopped the injustice, as you would have been forced to take the responsibility, if not in front of court, than at least in your own mind. This is why I refuse to believe that this can be an adequat solution.

I know, the feeling of being in control is nice, but in the end you are not in control as the aggressor dictates how the game moves on.

You know what? I can't always tell what peoples intentions are, but it they are trying to threaten or attack me, be it a gay-bashing, robbery, or what ever the fuck else, I'm dropping the fuckers. And I won't loose a bit of sleep over it. I'll give them about as much thought as the shit I scrap off the bottom of my shoe...

You don't want to carry a gun, that's fine. It's your choice. I would recommend you take a self defense coarse. A good instructor will teach you about situational awareness and how to spot potential threats.

You talk about the attackers potentially getting hold of my gun and using it on me, and yes that's always a risk. But the odds are still more in my favor than if I were unarmed. Again it all comes down to proper training.

And if you haven't noticed yet, I like to stack the deck in my favor and stay a couple of steps ahead. So, say they did get my gun and turned it on me. What would happen? There's a 99% chance that they can't get it to fire. Because I've already accounted for this type of scenario.
My primary weapon of choice is a 1911 .45 Officers ACP. A gun based on a 100+ year old design that requires training and lots of practice to use effectively. But with that training and practice, it's the best damn hand gun made. Unlike most modern automatic pistols that are double action, meaning that pulling the trigger both cocks and fires the gun, mine is a single action and must be cocked before firing. This means that mot people using guns like mine carry them in "condition 1", round chambered, cocked and safety on, which some consider to be unsafe for carry. But mine is different, it's modified with a Cylinder & Slide "Safety Fast Shooting System". This modification was developed for police for the very reason of a suspect getting a hold of their weapon. Until activated, the hammer, slide, and trigger are all locked in position. You cannot rack the slide to cock it, you cannot manually pull the hammer back, rendering the the gun useless. When it's activated, the hammer springs back in to the cocked and ready to fire position.

Something else you should understand is that people who have proper training and carry guns rarely have just one. So while they're trying to figure out my 1911, I have plenty of time to grab this...



A tiny little derringer, most never see it coming. Sure it's only two shots and in my case there were three attackers, but at least I could even the odds.

Now I'm sure that your next argument will be "what if you hit an innocent bystander or the bullet goes through a wall and hits someone" Again, there's always a risk, but I'm an expert marksman, trained as a sniper, and with that 1911, I can empty the clip, rapid fire (7 rounds) into a 2" grouping at 25 yards, And I only use Glaser Safety Slugs, a bullet designed for Air Marshals. The bullet won't penetrate a wall, it won't ricochet, and explodes into tiny, harmless pieces upon striking any hard surface, but completely shreds human tissue.

So, as you can see, I don't just strap on a gun and go, I realize all the dangers in carrying a weapon and take every precaution possible to reduce or eliminate those dangers.
I survived, my attack purely by dumb luck and I may never find myself in that position again, but If I do I know that I'm prepared for it and will do what ever is necessary to survive.
If you were to ever find yourself in the position I was in, and I hope you never do, no one should ever have to endure that, but if you did, you'd probably see things my way.

P.S. Keep in mind that I was a soldier (or as you put it, a trained killer, which was a really ugly and hurtful way to put it BTW) trained in Kenpo, Krav Maga, and Marine hand to hand combat and was still put in a situation where I was helpless. If they could do that to some one like me, just imagine how an ordinary civilian would have fared.
As I said before, drawing a gun should always be a last resort, but I don't ever want to be down to my last resort again and it not be there...

 

[fatty]

This is not about attacks on us but rather the power of religion and how dangerous it can be for many. Religion is a business and if there was no money in it, it would not exist. For some religion is good for them but to be unduly influenced by anything is extremely unhealthy. Much has been written about Islam but Islam in itself isn't evil, only those who use it to manipulate others into doing their dirty deeds are evil.
For a change, let me tell you about another religion of which I am no longer a part and what it did in my country. The country is Ireland and the religion Catholicism.
For a long time the clergy were in control here. Priests would denounce others from the pulpit and even tell people who to vote for. Day after day the baskets were filled with money from the people while many of the priests were abusing young boys.
And women who fell pregnant out of wedlock were put into homes run by nuns called magdeline homes where they worked their fingers to the bone, for food and bed. Some were beaten and some became fodder for priests. Even some women whose parents were afraid might have pre-marital sex were sent there. Many stayed there all their lives and the children taken from them and adopted without their consent or put into homes or in some cases experimented on. So they are some examples of how powerful and evil religion is to me anyway. Now I respect everyone's right to support religion should they wish but I am merely pointing out how other seemingly good and normal people albeit a little impressionable can be manipulated and in the meantime the bastards responsible for brainwashing these pawns are still allowed to walk the street to do even more damage protected by those in the higher echelons of that religion. I say question everything and read into the cirstances behind the seemingly crazy person. Don't let people quote from this book or that book because paper never refuses ink unless you are gullible to believe otherwise. It makes me think that in a religious exam where we were asked why Mathew wrote his gospel that one guy wrote "because he got a new biro for christmas", actually understood as a fourteen year old something that some people never learn!