Impressive statement

[Tjerk12]

This afternoon I saw a very interesting and touching (Belgian) doentary about the problems between Israel and the Palestinians. It ended with a great statement. This statement could just as easily apply to the problems homosexuals have in many countries.

How can humans bring together, what God has driven apart?

 

[hawtsean]

This afternoon I saw a very interesting and touching (Belgian) doentary about the problems between Israel and the Palestinians. It ended with a great statement. This statement could just as easily apply to the problems homosexuals have in many countries.

How can humans bring together, what God has driven apart?

I would alter the phrasing slightly, to reflect my personal feelings:

"How can humans bring together what other humans, pretending to be God and to speak for Him, have driven apart?"

 

[gb2000ie]

This afternoon I saw a very interesting and touching (Belgian) doentary about the problems between Israel and the Palestinians. It ended with a great statement. This statement could just as easily apply to the problems homosexuals have in many countries.

How can humans bring together, what God has driven apart?

Do you remember the name of the doentary? I'd love to see if I can download it somewhere. (yes, I speak Dutch so I'll be able to understand it)

B.

 

[topdog]

I don't know, that statement sounds to me like someone is blaming God for their own prejudice. I would say "Get back in there and try a little harder. You have much more in common than you have differences. Find the common ground and build from there."

 

[Tjerk12]

Do you remember the name of the doentary? I'd love to see if I can download it somewhere. (yes, I speak Dutch so I'll be able to understand it)

B.

I don't remember the name, but I will try to trace it for you. Will cost some time because my dog shredded my television magazine, so I have to look elsewhere.

 

[jeansGuyOZ]

How can humans bring together, what God has driven apart?

I don't think that's a great statement at all. In fact I think it's nonsense.

If there is no god, it's obviously wrong. And if there IS a god, it's like two kids scrapping in the kindergarten playground and saying it's the teacher's fault because they can't get along.

I would say to those on both sides: Pull your heads in, grow up, and stop blaming your god or other people for problems of your own making.

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Edit: And I don't see what that has to do with homosexuals. If God exists it's not his fault that humans persecute other humans.

 

[SimplyJakeAndAlex]

I don't remember the name, but I will try to trace it for you. Will cost some time because my dog shredded my television magazine, so I have to look elsewhere.

Try to search it in Anonym zu www.topdoentaryfilms.com
I gave this site link once, don't know if anyone visited it but this site is a doentary heaven, just like this board is a gay heaven . The dude who own the site crawls the web and find all kind of doentaries old or new and post them for us to watch and comment on it.

 

[hawtsean]

And I don't see what that has to do with homosexuals. If God exists it's not his fault that humans persecute other humans.

Absolutely on point. The issue is really that humans pretend to speak on behalf of God (whomever and wherever if existent) and then they slice and dice each other up in "His" name. Such travesty and horse manure should be seen for what it is worth - ZERO.

 

[gb2000ie]

I don't think that's a great statement at all. In fact I think it's nonsense.

If there is no god, it's obviously wrong. And if there IS a god, it's like two kids scrapping in the kindergarten playground and saying it's the teacher's fault because they can't get along.

I would say to those on both sides: Pull your heads in, grow up, and stop blaming your god or other people for problems of your own making.

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Edit: And I don't see what that has to do with homosexuals. If God exists it's not his fault that humans persecute other humans.

Unfortunately the CONCEPT of God is very real, and religious beliefs are equally real and powerful. Whether or not there really is a God is utterly irrelevant to problem areas like Palestine.

Nothing insulates humans from common sense like piety - only religion manages to turn critical thinking and logic into a vice (you doubting Thomas etc..). When you teach people that not thinking is good, and thinking is bad, you can hardly be surprised when logic and reason go out the window!

B.

 

[jeansGuyOZ]

Absolutely on point. The issue is really that humans pretend to speak on behalf of God (whomever and wherever if existent) and then they slice and dice each other up in "His" name. Such travesty and horse manure should be seen for what it is worth - ZERO.

...except that horse manure has its uses - it does the roses good. that's more than can be said for persecution in the name of religion.

 

[hawtsean]

...except that horse manure has its uses - it does the roses good. that's more than can be said for persecution in the name of religion.

Point taken regarding the use of manure. However, I believe you'd agree with my thought that religionists generally resemble assholes --- all puckered up and typically producing a smelly output

 

[name_1]

How can humans bring together, what God has driven apart?

To me its more of people trying to evade the issue and simply state: "its natural that i happen, i cant do a crap about it"

not really a positively impressive statement, i think.. (maybe only for this guy it is: :devil: LOL)

 

[Tjerk12]

Do you remember the name of the doentary? I'd love to see if I can download it somewhere. (yes, I speak Dutch so I'll be able to understand it)

B.

Hi.
It is a part of the TV series "De weg naar Mekka" (the road to Mekka). Original is Belgium, but brought by the VPRO (a Dutch Television organisation).
I am a bit surprised that nobody noticed that the statement is the reverse of the marriage statement: "nobody will drive apart what God brought together". I thought it was appropriate for a divorce between peoples. But maybe this statement is only used in The Netherlands for a Christian marriage.

 

[hawtsean]

I am a bit surprised that nobody noticed that the statement is the reverse of the marriage statement: "nobody will drive apart what God brought together". I thought it was appropriate for a divorce between peoples. But maybe this statement is only used in The Netherlands for a Christian marriage.

Actually, Tjerk, many clergymen in North America use that phrase as part of the marriage ceremony, at the closing, as they pronounce the affianced couple duly married. The typical (old English) phraseology is "what therefore God hath brought together, let no man rent asunder" - or similar wording to that effect. Judging by statistics, that pronouncement hasn't had much power these last few decades.

 

[777]

This afternoon I saw a very interesting and touching (Belgian) doentary about the problems between Israel and the Palestinians. It ended with a great statement. This statement could just as easily apply to the problems homosexuals have in many countries.

How can humans bring together, what God has driven apart?

If only the problems in Palestine were only about religion... Try water resources for starters. It doesn't seem like that has much to do with God. Religion is only the top of the iceberg and an excuse for the rest, just as it always has been.

I'd turn that into "how can God bring together, what humans have driven apart". Since according to Bible, God gave us free will and Jewish, Christians and Muslim do believe in the same God.

 

[hawtsean]

Since according to Bible, God gave us free will and Jewish, Christians and Muslim do believe in the same God.

If t'were only that simple. I have made extensive studies and have known people of all three faith/belief systems for many years. They do not at all believe in the same God. The deity worshiped in each faith is quite different from the others, and so are the critical tenets of faith and belief. None of the three faiths can abide the others description of their God and His power and authority, and each of those faiths' holy writings forbid believers to co-mingle belief systems.

Of course there are numerous parallel thoughts and commonality of practices - but not so much as to bring these three faiths together without strife over whose system will be predominant.

 

[gb2000ie]

If only the problems in Palestine were only about religion... Try water resources for starters. It doesn't seem like that has much to do with God. Religion is only the top of the iceberg and an excuse for the rest, just as it always has been.

I'd turn that into "how can God bring together, what humans have driven apart". Since according to Bible, God gave us free will and Jewish, Christians and Muslim do believe in the same God.

Like all conflicts it's about being able to de-humanise the opponent into some form of 'other'. 'us' and 'them' is rooted deep in the primeval parts of our nature, and it's hard to control. In places like Palestine and Northern Ireland religion is important only in so far as it makes a nice clear easy marker to divide the 'us' and the 'them'.

B.

 

[777]

If t'were only that simple. I have made extensive studies and have known people of all three faith/belief systems for many years. They do not at all believe in the same God. The deity worshiped in each faith is quite different from the others, and so are the critical tenets of faith and belief. None of the three faiths can abide the others description of their God and His power and authority, and each of those faiths' holy writings forbid believers to co-mingle belief systems.

Of course there are numerous parallel thoughts and commonality of practices - but not so much as to bring these three faiths together without strife over whose system will be predominant.

Does any of them have to be predominant? Co-existing would work just fine. The thing is, Muslims, Jews and Christians used to live in peace in the Palestine area until the western countries decided that they needed to have a solution to the flood of unwanted refugees, and caused another flood of unwanted refugees by their actions.

I've met people who do believe that it is the same God in all three, from all three religions, and from historic point of view it definitely is. Christianity evolved from Judaism, Islam from both aforementioned. The differences are more about cultural influences. Jewish God was the God of Jews, no one else's (which means there was other gods), Prophet Muhammed offered his message to Arabs in a form that appealed them, and Christianity is what it is nowadays because the Roman version of it won. Our world might look completely different if any other rivalling sect would have been the one to come on top, or say, Jesus would have been successful in shaking up the Jewish community without his followers making a breach from it. New Testament would definitely look like a different book if Paul wasn't hanging there like he belonged. Religion is always living in the time, and these times aren't friendly. Like gb200ie said:

Like all conflicts it's about being able to de-humanise the opponent into some form of 'other'. 'us' and 'them' is rooted deep in the primeval parts of our nature, and it's hard to control. In places like Palestine and Northern Ireland religion is important only in so far as it makes a nice clear easy marker to divide the 'us' and the 'them'.

B.

 

[hawtsean]

Does any of them have to be predominant? Co-existing would work just fine. The thing is, Muslims, Jews and Christians used to live in peace in the Palestine

All of the three faiths demand predominant obedience from their followers, and inculcate the mindset that any other faith is false, defective and a sham. Kinda difficult and strained at best to co-exist when each faith preaches strongly against all others. I hate to burst your bubble, but the Jews and the Muslims have been at each others throats for several thousands of years. Whatever peace shakily existed was between wars when either side was regrouping or working secretly against the other. with either Britain, France or the USA. Christians stood back and watched the ongoing fracas while waiting for a winner to emerge. It hasn't happened yet.

I've met people who do believe that it is the same God in all three, from all three religions, and from historic point of view it definitely is.

Again I am sorry to disappoint your beliefs, but there is no written history - as opposed to opinion - that I am aware of (and believe me I have studied it) that proves each of those three faiths to believe in the same God. Their own holy writings vehemently deny that any other faith practice can worship a true (in their eyes) deity unless that faith is forsaken for the self-proclaimed "true" one. By their own holy writ, each excludes the other. I cannot imagine what history you have read that contradicts this fact. I sincerely would like to know how you come by this info, as I maintain a lifelong interest in human faith towards deity. THere are many offshoot belief systems which foster the ideal of syncretism - the melding of various faiths into one supposedly harmonious belief. Bah'ai is one of those, with it's basis in Islam. Sadly, the other Islamic sects murdered the founder of the Bah'ai faith........and his (Baha'ullah) writings took root in Islam, with vestiges of Judaism, Christianity and a few other bits and pieces. The problem with any syncretistic religious structure is that there is no definitive standard. Things might be right or might be wrong, depending on which melded-in faith one wishes to cling to.

Those believers of whom you speak are denying their own faith's commandments. I would earnestly love to see peace and common acceptance among all Jews, Muslims and Christians.............but it just ain't so! Your version of the origin of these faiths is interesting and has some fact to it, but many specific and critical events are overlooked that have created completely separate faith structures.

 

[jeansGuyOZ]

I think the reference to the marriage ceremony passed many of us by, for the simple reason that most of us are not, and have never been, married.