Keep Men Out of Women's Restrooms

[W!nston]

Keep Men Out of Women's Restrooms
Chicago Tribune | By Elizabeth Edens | April 7, 2016 5:50 pm

In opposition to sharing bathrooms with transgender men and women​

There is a bully in our country that has been body-building for the last 25 years. That bully has now "come out" and is flexing its muscles, sending fear down the spines of our politically correct population.

There are untold numbers of people who do not speak out for fear of being ostracized or being called bigots. They are not bad people, nor are they bigots. They have simply sucbed to the sound of silence. And as Simon and Garfunkel's "The Sound of Silence" song goes, silence, like a cancer, grows.

The bully is political correctness, and it does not scare me.

I live in North Carolina, and I support the new controversial state law that says people must use the bathroom that corresponds with the sex listed on their birth certificates. However, the law is flawed — the part that allows for LGBT people to be discriminated against in employment should be repealed.

That being said, the rest of it is on target. It needs to be a federal law so that I can feel safe in a bathroom anywhere in this once-great country of ours.

I am a 61-year-old white woman, married 42 years to a straight man. That makes me a target. My right to privacy is being assaulted. My right to feel safe in public bathrooms is being denied. Where is the American Civil Liberties Union? Why is North Carolina being trashed for trying to protect me and my rights?

Businesses are pouring out of the woodwork to condemn North Carolina, taking away jobs, refusing to do business with the state, etc. Now is the time for them to put their money where their mouths are. PayPal had the perfect opportunity to step up to the plate and say, "Hey, we are building a place in North Carolina and providing 400 jobs. We want to do it right and be the first to offer a safe, comfortable bathroom for everyone." But instead, PayPal pulled out in a huff, whining about the law instead of showing the world how to resolve the situation.

Because this "gender identity" bathroom issue has a very simple solution. Businesses need to provide traditional men's and women's bathrooms and a third single-occupancy bathroom for any and all genders. Fathers can take young daughters to these bathrooms, mothers can take toddler sons and those who are uncomfortable in traditional multiple-occupancy bathrooms, for any reason, can use these new bathrooms as well. Some places already have a family bathroom; rename these restrooms single-occupancy, and we are good to go. Alternatively, even a third multiple-occupancy bathroom could be identified as a general restroom, allowing anyone to use it, with the understanding that people may encounter the opposite sex in those facilities.

If being fair and compassionate is the issue, all individuals have a right to feel safe, not just LGBT people. Allowing men in a bathroom for women offends me and makes me extremely uncomfortable. Why are my feelings and my comfort less valid? Why is my right to feel safe overridden by those of a man who chooses to dress like or identify as a woman?

This option of a third bathroom is not rocket science. .

My right and that of others who simply desire same-sex restroom accommodations is being disrespected and dismissed. Doesn't this fly in the face of the whole issue of equality? I am seeking only the same rights as my transgender brothers and sisters.

PayPal, are you listening?

Elizabeth Edens, a Chicago native, spent 20 years in Kansas where she owned several businesses and served on the City Council of Olathe. She now lives in Hillsborough, N.C.

SOURCE

I agree with her. This has gone too far. Single Occupancy restrooms or General Unisex restrooms in addition to the traditional Men and Women restrooms should be required. Not what is happening now.

She also says the portion of the bill that prohibits cities from enacting anti-discrimination laws against Gays should be removed. I agree with her on that too.

She is correct about the 'Big Bully' that has America in a choke-hold. The PC bullies are insidious. Everyone remains silent to avoid being ostracized. This is how the Nazis rose to power.

I'm sure there are some who will disagree with this solution. But they will be wrong - IMHO, of course

 

[brmstn69]

That might be a simple solution for big companies, but what about small businesses? A small family owned store or restaurant may not so easily be able to absorb the cost of adding another restroom and may not even have space...

My real issue is that the law states "Gender assigned on birth certificate" when it should read "legal gender" or whatever gender is on your official state ID...

 

[W!nston]

Small businesses usually have no public restroom or a Single Occupancy restroom to begin with. So they would already be in compliance. If necessary they could always close their restrooms to the public to comply.

Why is it people think it's a good idea to force women to allow persons with a penis to join them in the Women's room? It is ridiculous. It is going too far. If you have a penis go the the Men's room. If you are post operative and have had your penis turned into a vagina then by all means go to the ladies room. The same goes for people with vaginas. If they still have a vagina go to the Women's room. I don't want to see a pussy in the Men's room. It's going too far.

This whole business is crazy. Just plain crazy.

 

[mattla]

I think having unisex bathrooms (other than the single occupancy type) is going too far. I suppose if a man is dressed (convincingly) as a woman and goes into a women's room it probably wouldn't raise any attention since they are in a stall - unless the male brings attention to themselves. Still - men's rooms for men - women's rooms for women. One side note - speaking from the point of view of one who has had to clean women's restrooms - not just the public ones but also the employee ones - that is not a place we should want to be. Women's bathroom habits can be just downright filthy - they may act like they are the cleaner gender but their restrooms often tell a much different tale. I am not saying that men are perfect - far from - but in general their restrooms were cleaner.

 

[brmstn69]

If you have a penis go the the Men's room. If you are post operative and have had your penis turned into a vagina then by all means go to the ladies room. The same goes for people with vaginas. If they still have a vagina go to the Women's room. I don't want to see a pussy in the Men's room. It's going too far.

This whole business is crazy. Just plain crazy.

Because this isn't an open invitation to an ass kicking...


And where would this chap go?


Think again...


There is no black and white, just 50 shades of gray...

 

[gb2000ie]

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[gb2000ie]

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[gb2000ie]

Let's leave asside the fact that I think all this hang-ups over gender and needing separate bathrooms is prudish nonsense. I know lots of people feel that way, so let's pretend I do for a moment.

Trans people live their lives as the gender they have transitioned to. To them, they have always been that gender, there was just a bit of a boo boo in the womb, and their body parts did not match their brain.

If you think coming out as gay is hard, well, that's NOTHING compared to coming out as trans, and going through the process of transitioning.

So, you have gone through all that. It has been a decade of hell, but you have your shit together, and you are happily living as the gender you always knew you were.

Now, out of the blue, you are LEGALLY FORCED into the wrong bathroom. Who does that help in ANY way? Who does that PROTECT from anything?

So - you look just like a man, and now you have to go into the ladies bathroom. Do you think those ladies will feel safer that way? Do you think they will feel at ease in any way?

Or, you do it the other way around - you force someone who for all intents and purposes is now a woman into the mens bathroom, who is that protecting? Who is that making safer?

NO ONE!

I know how I would feel if I was forced to use the wrong bathroom - humiliated and dehumanised.

It is literally forcing people to out themselves as trans, or break the law each and every time they need a pee.

Who does that help? How is that not cruel?

If you ask me this is all about years of social conditioning, sub-concious predjudices, and un-analysed emotions. Stop and think people. Stop and think.

B.

 

[gb2000ie]

On a more practical note - how do you implement this law? Mandatory passport checks as the doors of restrooms?

What if you are post-op - surely now that your anatomy and your brain are back in sync, and now that you are entirely the gender your brain always was, why should you be forced into the wrong bathroom?

The more you stop and think, the stupider and the more insane this whole law becomes. It does not solve any real problems that actually exist in the real world. It is just people getting their personal predjudices enshrined in law, and fucking over a whole load of human beings in the processs.

B.

 

[W!nston]

I've never been in a women's restroom. Never. But I've heard they do not have stand-up urinals. They have sit-down toilets in stalls. I've also heard they adjust their undergarments like panties and pantyhose in there. Out in the open where a peek of a pussy would be no more than in the men's room where we stand at a trough with peckers hanging out.

I would not want to have a person next to me who has no penis but a vagina with a clitoris hanging out to pee. I don't want to see that. It's hard enough to relax and piss in public as it is.

Do you honestly think there aren't crossdressing men or women or transsexuals who don't already use the men's or women's bathrooms discretely by using a stall? Granted it would be easier for a person with a penis to use the women's room than a person with a vagina to use the men's room unless the stalls actually have doors which many do not these days. Especially in public schools.

All the Politically Correct non-sense is an attempt to make anyone who disagrees with the 'PC bullies' feel ostracized and accused of some evil act. Stop it. Just stop the PC BS. There are penis and vaginas in this world.

And don't call me a prude again. Please.

 

[gb2000ie]

Do you honestly think there aren't crossdressing men or women or transsexuals who don't already use the men's or women's bathrooms discretely by using a stall?

Of course there are. What's wrong with that? Does no one any harm at all. But, it's just been made illegal, and you think that's a GOOD thing.

You want someone who everyone thinks is a woman, including the person themselves, to be FORCED to use the mens room and make every man in there uncomformtable, and humiliate that poor person each and every time they need to answer the call of nature.

How is that not a totally dick move?

All the Politically Correct non-sense is an attempt to make anyone who disagrees with the 'PC bullies' feel ostracized and accused of some evil act. Stop it. Just stop the PC BS. There are penis and vaginas in this world.

Treating people with dignity and respect is not 'PC nonsense', and standing up for people who are routinely discriminated against, threatened, and oppressed is not being a bully, it is STANDING UP TO BULLIES.

Forcing trans people to cause a scene each time they wnat to pee is bullying of the worst kind. It is those with all the power forcing those with no power to humilate themselves. Bullies get their jollies from oppressing people. That's what this law is. Christian bullies getting their jollies by victimising trans people.

Before this law came into effect, trans people were discretely using the approiate bathroom for the gender they are living as without problem, and without incident. THERE IS NO PROBLEM TO BE SOLVED!

Or, have you experienced terrible problems with vaginas being stuffed in your face? Is this really a thing? I HIGHLY doubt it.

B.

 

[W!nston]

I'm not using caps.

I know there are crossdressers and transsexuals who use the women's room discretely and that is fine. I have yet to see a person with a vagina standing at a urinal next to me but the battle for 'bathroom equality' has gone too far. The proponents of it want public schools to be forced into unisex bathrooms. Do you really think that is a good idea?

Maybe in Belgium or Ireland or wherever some people live that would work. You can call me any name you want but I don't think it is a good idea to mix sexes in the bathrooms. Period. I'm entitled to that opinion and I will thank you not to impose your opinion on me.

 

[cacc]

Fully agree that restrooms need to be kept separate, this is absolute madness.

 

[W!nston]

Let's ask a question of the GH members who are reading this.

Should public schools and businesses be required to allow sexes to mix in the restrooms?

How about it? In Ireland or Belgium let's say. Or any other country like Italy or Germany or elsewhere. Do school children use mixed sex bathrooms? America is being portrayed as backwards because there is opposition to this proposal. Does Ireland and Belgium already have mixed sex bathrooms in their public schools, public buildings, sporting venues such as stadiums, arenas, coliseums, and businesses like restaurants, medical offices, hospitals, airports, train stations, bus terminals etc etc etc? Do they?

 

[gorgik9]

OK let's see if I understand ANYTHING : If it's true that the State Congress of North Carolina is about to decide about a state law demanding that a NC citizen must go to the bathroom for the sex described in the persons birth certificat, then I must say I fully agree with gb and question how anyone can fail to see that this is a legislation deliberatly intended to humiliate transsexual people; I think it's the shittiest kind of shit, it like a legislation demanding that muslim and jewish citizens must eat pork.

This doesn't solve any kind of practical legal problem and the only real meaning is to tell transsexual people loud and clear: we've got the instruments to humiliate you as much as we want!

But then again, when the NorthCarolinians have figured how to humiliate transsexual people, then what on earth will they do with intersexuals? The people called Hermaphrodites in ancient terminology? Suck on that you un-natural Biblical bastards!

 

[gb2000ie]

I know there are crossdressers and transsexuals who use the women's room discretely and that is fine.

But the law you support just made that illegal!

I have yet to see a person with a vagina standing at a urinal next to me but the battle for 'bathroom equality' has gone too far. The proponents of it want public schools to be forced into unisex bathrooms. Do you really think that is a good idea?

This law is not that. This law is the inverse of that.

This law is banning all trans people from doing what we both agree is a perfectly normal and reasonable thing to do.

I would not be in favour of forcing unisex on people. It'll come naturally if and when people are ready for it.

Being against active discrinination like is going on here is not at all the same thing as being in favour of enforced unisex.

My view is that it should be "live and let live" - I'm against laws that stop people living their lives in peace and with diginity, but I am equally against forcing arbitrary rules on people.

It's not government's place to either ban trans people from the appropriate bathroom, nor is it government's place to enforce unisex toilets on anyone.

Maybe in Belgium or Ireland or wherever some people live that would work.

Forcing unisex would not work here anymore than it woudl work anywhere else.

We have unisex toilets in work, and they are a complete non-issue. Each 'stall' is actually a wee room with its own sink, so what you really have is lots of one-person bathrooms in a corridor with a big mirror and some more sinks.

You can call me any name you want but I don't think it is a good idea to mix sexes in the bathrooms. Period. I'm entitled to that opinion and I will thank you not to impose your opinion on me.

Let's leave asside that I don't agree about mixing being a bad idea. I live in that reality every day, and it's just fine.

If you assume that mixing is bad, then you should be in favour of trans people using the bathroom for the gender they have transitioned to. They are living as a man/woman. They have almost certainly been taking hormones, so they most probably look like they have always been that gender. Many have had surgery, so their anatomy now also matches the gender they transitioned to.

This law forces people who have become women, and who are totally indistinguishable from any other woman into the gents. If you want the genders separated, do you really want a woman in the gents doing her makeup and all that? That insane situation is what this law mandates.

B.

 

[gb2000ie]

Let's ask a question of the GH members who are reading this.

Should public schools and businesses be required to allow sexes to mix in the restrooms?

How about it? In Ireland or Belgium let's say. Or any other country like Italy or Germany or elsewhere. Do school children use mixed sex bathrooms? America is being portrayed as backwards because there is opposition to this proposal. Does Ireland and Belgium already have mixed sex bathrooms in their public schools, public buildings, sporting venues such as stadiums, arenas, coliseums, and businesses like restaurants, medical offices, hospitals, airports, train stations, bus terminals etc etc etc? Do they?

Talk about a strawman!

Being opposed to this law is NOT the same as being in favour of FORCED unisex toilets!

The only way this makes sense is if you don't beleive trans people really are trans.

I have two good friends who are trans. They were one gender, they are now the other. Making them use the bathrooms for their old gender is an absolute nonsense, that is what they WERE, not what they ARE!

Focing people to keep using the bathroom on their birth cert is FORCING mixing of the sexes, not preventing it!

B.

 

[W!nston]

I'm not from North Carolina.

The legislation in North Carolina is only the latest reaction to the push by proponents of the idea requiring all public bathrooms to be open to anyone of any sexual identity. This includes schools and all the other public bathrooms.

Pennsylvania just passed such a law:

This State Just Did Something Good For Transgender People
04/07/2016 04:07 pm ET

SOURCE

I know I'm in a minority around here on this issue and so be it.

If you don't mind my asking where does your country stand on the issue of allowing men in women's (and vice versa) public restrooms (which includes public schools from kindergarten to high school and college)? I know Sweden is very much liberal on sexual things so I'm very curious to read your answer.

 

[gb2000ie]

If you don't mind my asking where does your country stand on the issue of allowing men in women's (and vice versa) public restrooms (which includes public schools from kindergarten to high school and college)? I know Sweden is very much liberal on sexual things so I'm very curious to read your answer.

Do you believe that a trans man is not a man?

I believe that people can and do change gender. I have seen it with my own eyes. I believe that those people have the right to be treated as the gender they have transitioned to.

This makes the whole problem vanish. Once you accept that a man can become a woman, then there are no men in womens toilets and all that.

Here in Ireland you have the legal right to change the gender on your birth cert, so you can truly become the gender you transition to.

*poof*

problem gone.

 

[W!nston]

So I will assume Ireland nor Belgium have required unisex bathrooms in public schools or businesses. That's good to hear.

There is a movement here to do just that. To require unisex bathrooms in schools and public buildings.

That is the movement the North Carolina law is a reaction to.

I agree that it should be a non-issue but this time the religious right are reacting to the warped logic afoot with the push for unisex toilets in public schools and buildings.