Married and lusting for guys on the down low

[jw4833]

Hey Guys:

I hope you all had a great Thanksgiving as well as having a lot to be thankful for. I had a situation that occurred earlier in the week with a friend of my cousin (Mark) whom I've known since I was 20 yrs. old. He and my cousin went to school together and I met him through my cousin. Not too long after, we all came out to each other and it was our little "secret" that we kept away from our families and straight friends for several years. Nonetheless, throughout the years whenever Mark name would come up in conversation, my cousin had mentioned that he was happily married with two children. I have to say that I was always perplexed about this information due to the fact that I had seen him in action many times and I knew how much he loved guys and have had many boyfriends. However, this was information that I kept to myself because the conversations never went further into discussion until recently.

You see, years ago, Mark enlisted into the Air Force and had been enlisted for many years before retiring from the Air Force altogether and during that time, my cousin would tell me how Mark had not only boyfriends but "fuck buddies" during his years in the service also. Therefore, I was somewhat taken a back when I found out that he had married a woman.

Nonetheless, it was revealed to me that he would sneak away from his married life and pay my cousin visits over the years in order to have sex with guys which was supposedly unknown to his wife and children because they were under the assumption that he was away on business for his job. He has been married for twenty years and his two children are adults now and both have graduated from college with their Masters' Degrees.

Just recently, he paid my cousin a visit for a week in order to "scratch his itch". Earlier this week, my cousin had mentioned this within our conversation and once this information was revealed to me, I got quiet afterwards. My cousin questioned me why I wasn't saying anything and once I told him my feelings/opinions about Mark leading this "double lifestyle" all these years and how my heart went out to his wife and children. My cousin got frustrated and annoyed with my response.

You know to each its own but if you ask me my opinion on a subject matter then I am entitled to give an honest response. As the conversation went into further details, I came to the assumption that his wife had to be very much aware of his other lifestyle but became adjusted to it because she has grown accustomed to the lifestyle that he has given her and the children over the years and did not want to change things as some women are accustomed to doing especially if they have been with a guy for an extended amount of time. My cousin had also mentioned that Mark informed him that over the years their relationship has evolved into more of a strong friendship instead of a marriage.

With all that being said, my question to the forum is do you any of you think you can be comfortable being involved with someone who is leading a double life while being married for over twenty years to a woman? As always, thanks to all who have taken the time to read this post and thanking you in advance for your responses. JW:big hug:

 

[AleXXX UK]

I think you should remain friends with this guy. You don't know the full picture especially about the marriage. His wife may well know what's going on. She could be so in love with him she doesn't care. They may have an open relationship where she too sleeps with other men or women. She may have less of a problem and not feel threatened because they are other men and not women. She may be bisexual, he may be bisexual. She may be very liberal.

Or she may have no clue despite being married for so long in which case she could be an idiot who doesn't deserve much sympathy. Either way you should let him and her be and not ruin their marriage or your friendship.

Good friends especially life long ones are hard to come by. You don't need to pretend to be happy about what's going on. You're entitled to disagree with that kind of open lifestyle. You may also choose not to play any part of the cover up. Just enjoy your friendship with him.

 

[Tjerk12]

JW,
Did ask yourself the question about your feelings if his double lifestyle would mean doing it with other women instead of men?

 

[Blacky94]

I wouldn't be comfortable around such persons, because I think they are lying and deceiving People who love them. I mean they marry women who love them, because they to afraid that people find out they are gay . They are lying to that women AND cheat on her. They make children
who they are also lying to. For me that is just low.
And if they realize that they are gay after they married woman it is just pathetic not telling her the truth. They risk destroying their Family completly.

But I wouldn't treat them differently or anything like that. A friend is friend and you have to respect their private life. I would, however,
try to talk to them about it but I won't force it on him if he doesn't want to talk about it.

 

[jw4833]

I think you should remain friends with this guy. You don't know the full picture especially about the marriage. His wife may well know what's going on. She could be so in love with him she doesn't care. They may have an open relationship where she too sleeps with other men or women. She may have less of a problem and not feel threatened because they are other men and not women. She may be bisexual, he may be bisexual. She may be very liberal.

Or she may have no clue despite being married for so long in which case she could be an idiot who doesn't deserve much sympathy. Either way you should let him and her be and not ruin their marriage or your friendship.

Good friends especially life long ones are hard to come by. You don't need to pretend to be happy about what's going on. You're entitled to disagree with that kind of open lifestyle. You may also choose not to play any part of the cover up. Just enjoy your friendship with him.

Thanks for your response Alexxx:

However, I never mentioned that I was not going to continue a friendship with this guy although I may not agree with his lifestyle. I do know that his wife and he has never openly discussed his lifestyle because he confided this information to my cousin. Even when they were engaged, he was in a relationship with a guy for quite some time prior to the engagement. What I do know is that most women are very intuitive and I am pretty sure that she has her suspicions but I do know a few women that are married to down-low guys and although they've never openly discussed this with their suspicions with their husbands. however, they have become quite comfortable with the life they have grown accustomed to and therefore declined to discussed them because they are afraid that it will mess things up for them. I know this first hand because last year there was a guy who was trying to pursue me and while on IM, he sent me several naked pics of himself and he had also been sending me pretty raunchy e-mails. To my surprise, his wife found all of this on his PC and contacted me to find out what was really going on because she was not aware of his attraction to men.

Nonetheless, my heart does goes out to those women who are not aware of the other life that their husbands lead because I feel its not fair for them to include them within their confused state of mind under false pretenses and they have to be subjected to being a part of something that they do not deserve to be a part of....This is just my opinion...

 

[jw4833]

JW,
Did ask yourself the question about your feelings if his double lifestyle would mean doing it with other women instead of men?

Thank you Tjerk12 for your response:

As I've mentioned in a previous post that was similar to the question you are asking; I had a guy who was pursuing me and eventually, I discovered that he was leading a double life behind his wife back due to the fact that she contacted me after finding his emails and pictures on the internet that he had sent me earlier. After realizing that I was not aware of his situation or her, she engaged into a very lengthy conversation with me in regard to her not knowing or being aware of his other life and how betrayed she felt because he involved her into a situation that she felt she did not deserve to be a part of. Although I am not a supporter of his lifestyle, I would not continue the friendship that I have with him because he is more of a friend to my cousin as opposed to me and yet, this is something that he has to go through on his own to understand or comprehend to what his lifestyle is doing to those who are considered his family.

 

[Otage]

If someone is living a doublelife, how on earth is that your broplem? Doesn't make you any better person, if you dump him just because of that. Nobodys perfect. He just wants the whole cake. Nothing wrong with that.

 

[Blacky94]

Well it is not our problem. But it is wrong. You lie to people who love and trust you and think they know you. You go and cheat on them and maybe you don't even feel bad about it. Maybe that one person would be happy, but what about his wife, children (and boyfriend/Lover). You can't justify something like that just because it makes you happy. You are deceiving innocent people, just because you can not decide.
It wouldn't be bad if all people knew, but that is not the case, it is simply selfish.

And I never said I am better Person than those people. Saying something like that doesn't make me better at all.

 

[AleXXX UK]

Thanks for your response Alexxx:

I think you'd only have a dilemma if he was chasing YOU. Then you'd be party to the deceit if you went along with Him. As long as he's not pursuing you then continue to enjoy his friendship. If his double life bugs you that much then talk to him, maybe over a beer. You should only be concerned if you think he is a genuinely bad character and is likely to betray you as willingly as he may be cheating on his wife.

 

[AleXXX UK]

Well it is not our problem. But it is wrong.

We don't know its wrong. It could be a very amicable arrangement with his wife.

 

[Blacky94]

As I said, as long everyone knows AND is okay with it, it is not a problem.
Also my last post was not directed at that guy from jw's post.
It was directed to guys who actually don't tell their wifes anything.

 

[jw4833]

I think you'd only have a dilemma if he was chasing YOU. Then you'd be party to the deceit if you went along with Him. As long as he's not pursuing you then continue to enjoy his friendship. If his double life bugs you that much then talk to him, maybe over a beer. You should only be concerned if you think he is a genuinely bad character and is likely to betray you as willingly as he may be cheating on his wife.

Hey Alexxx:

I don't have a dilemma and this was only brought up on the forum just for conversation piece and for others' opinions on this subject matter. Like I've mentioned just because this is a lifestyle that I do not support doesn't mean that this behavior is going to stop because of my dislike for it. Mark have chased me several times prior to him being married and when we first came out into the gay life. Unfortunately and possibly a blessing in disguise, the timing for us to get together was all wrong. Also, Mark does know how I feel about it because he brought the subject matter up to me while we were having a personal conversation and I told him my thoughts/opinions on it which he revealed to my cousin. However, I feel if you ask me my opinion, I'm going to give it to you straight with no chaser...With that being said, with my bringing this up for discussion has nothing to do with whether I am interested in him because I'm not.. Furthermore, I would never put myself in a position to be involved with someone whether they are married or with someone else. Just not my thing..its all or nothing at all...

 

[jw4833]

As I said, as long everyone knows AND is okay with it, it is not a problem.
Also my last post was not directed at that guy from jw's post.
It was directed to guys who actually don't tell their wifes anything.

Hey Blacky94:

I totally understood where you were coming from with your response...thanks for sharing it...

 

[Otage]

Well it is not our problem. But it is wrong. You lie to people who love and trust you and think they know you. You go and cheat on them and maybe you don't even feel bad about it. Maybe that one person would be happy, but what about his wife, children (and boyfriend/Lover). You can't justify something like that just because it makes you happy. You are deceiving innocent people, just because you can not decide.
It wouldn't be bad if all people knew, but that is not the case, it is simply selfish.

And I never said I am better Person than those people. Saying something like that doesn't make me better at all.

It doesn't automatically in this situation mean, that other people involved are misarable. Sometimes the thinking-out-side-of-the-normal works. It's a peculiar situation, I agree on that, but it doesn't necesserily mean it's a bad situation. And I think his wife know (only a guess), but it would be odd if she didn't. And his boyfirend(s) might be the type, that just don't wont any commitment, which I personally think is somenthing we cherish, just because the things have always been like that.

 

[jw4833]

It doesn't automatically in this situation mean, that other people involved are misarable. Sometimes the thinking-out-side-of-the-normal works. It's a peculiar situation, I agree on that, but it doesn't necesserily mean it's a bad situation. And I think his wife know (only a guess), but it would be odd if she didn't. And his boyfirend(s) might be the type, that just don't wont any commitment, which I personally think is somenthing we cherish, just because the things have always been like that.

Hello Otage:

Thanks for responding to this post. As I've mentioned in an earlier post, his wife does not know about his lust for guys because he had mentioned this to my cousin when he visited him last month. However, as I do, he believes that she has her suspicions but for some reason, they have not discussed this situation openly with each other. The boyfriend that I had mentioned in an earlier post is someone that I do know very well and he did not know anything about him being attractive to women yet alone him being engaged. I know this first hand because I was one of the people that the boyfriend contacted on a continuous basis. The only reason I brought this up for discussion on the GH forum is for participation and just to see what other members opinions may be on the topic.

 

[Otage]

Hello Otage:

Thanks for responding to this post. As I've mentioned in an earlier post, his wife does not know about his lust for guys because he had mentioned this to my cousin when he visited him last month. However, as I do, he believes that she has her suspicions but for some reason, they have not discussed this situation openly with each other. The boyfriend that I had mentioned in an earlier post is someone that I do know very well and he did not know anything about him being attractive to women yet alone him being engaged. I know this first hand because I was one of the people that the boyfriend contacted on a continuous basis. The only reason I brought this up for discussion on the GH forum is for participation and just to see what other members opinions may be on the topic.

So he just wants to have the whole cake to himself. Kinda rude. But also kinda hard situation. It would be great to know what everyone involved thinks about it. And it isn't necesserily "evil" behaviour from the married guy, I mean he can hate the situation, but just doesn't know what to do or could be in some sort of denial. If it bothers you, try to talk to him. If he doesn't wanna talk about it and it still bothers you too much, you could consider the bossipility of leaving him be, cutting off, for your own sake:thinking: Or create a huge drama by telling everyone involved and be the preachy annoying nagging one who takes solving of other peoples personal broplems to his own hands. And do it drunk and drag everyone in to the situation. When the fights break loose, just smile sardonically:rofl:

 

[jw4833]

So he just wants to have the whole cake to himself. Kinda rude. But also kinda hard situation. It would be great to know what everyone involved thinks about it. And it isn't necesserily "evil" behaviour from the married guy, I mean he can hate the situation, but just doesn't know what to do or could be in some sort of denial. If it bothers you, try to talk to him. If he doesn't wanna talk about it and it still bothers you too much, you could consider the bossipility of leaving him be, cutting off, for your own sake:thinking: Or create a huge drama by telling everyone involved and be the preachy annoying nagging one who takes solving of other peoples personal broplems to his own hands. And do it drunk and drag everyone in to the situation. When the fights break loose, just smile sardonically:rofl:

Ever since I've known Mark he has always loved to be with guys. I have been in the company of him occasionally being with a female. In fact, one of the females I knew really well and although she knew of him having an attraction for guys and even knew one of his boyfriends, she was under the illusion that she could change him altogether. I just want to reference a part of an earlier post of this topic that I've written in regard to giving my opinion of the whole situation to Mark due to the fact that he asked me my opinion...Mark does know how I feel about it because he brought the subject matter up to me while we were having a personal conversation and I told him my thoughts/opinions on it which he revealed to my cousin.

And again...as I've mentioned a few times already...this is not an issue that I sit and ponder on. I brought this up only for the purpose of participation on the forum just to see what other members thought about guys who want to have their cake and eat it too. This situation does not effect me personally at all...

 

[topdog]

I think there are some additional moral dimensions here that have not yet been brought up.

And since the point of the story is to discuss the type of person, rather than Mark, specifically, let me make up a parallel character that I'll call Joe.

It's 1992 - in the US there has been a Republican president since Joe was in grade school. Joe is 25 and has for the first time met a girl that he could see himself married to. He is just starting to advance in his military career and he wants to be married and have a family. The only problem here is that he loves screwing guys.

Of course he loves screwing women, too. And everyone sows some wild oats in there early 20's and then settles down and gets married, right? He has to make a decision. It's not that hard. Every moral authority around him - church, military, family, peers - tell him directly or indirectly that marriage is holy, right, and next step in his journey as a man.

No matter how much he likes man sex, he sees no future there. The gay community, (with which he doesn't really identify), seems to be all about AIDS and civil rights. He doesn't have AIDS. He doesn't know anyone with AIDS. And since he doesn't broadcast his same-sex exploits, he doesn't face any discrimination.

Marriage to a man isn't going to happen in his lifetime and the only gays with kids are lesbians.

So Joe makes a choice that is so obvious that it doesn't even feel like a choice - he gets married.

Ten years pass - it's 2002. Joe now has a position of authority in the military. Who would have thought ten years earlier that he would now be leading men (and women!) in a war after his country was attacked.

Joe has kids in school, a devoted wife who he has grown to appreciate even more as a partner over the years. He's respected in his community.

But, in some respects marriage hasn't turned out the way he thought it would. It has turned in to something of a sexual void - there is nothing there of any interest. But he can deal with that and get sex elsewhere. The hard part is he is feeling more and more isolated from his wife, his family, everyone really. He has this secret - this dark terrible secret. If he was to let this secret out then his whole world would collapse. Keeping this secret has almost become a second career.

Emotionally, he is at a crossroads. He's 35. He feels too old to start again from scratch, but too young to be settling for a life that is going in the wrong direction. What does he do? What is the right moral path?

• He could tell his wife that he is gay. (She would go ballistic. She would divorce him. She would take his kids away. She would end his military career. He would become an object of pity and ridicule among all his friends.)
• He could stop having sex with men. (Right. Like he hasn't promised to do that 100 times before. It never sticks. And, in a way, it's the occasional "sexual vacations" that make his marriage possible. He would never have made it this far otherwise.)

He decides to double down on the marriage. He will not get a divorce and abandon the commitment he has made to his wife and children. He will do whatever it takes. It may feel like he is losing a piece of his soul, but if that's the price of keeping the secret and saving his family, then that's what he will do. He has made his choice.

Another ten years go by - it's 2012. The last kid has started college. The nest is empty. He's only 45, but now has retired from the military with a pension. He has recently started a new job with a defense contractor at a good salary. Money, which had been so tight in the early years, is now no problem.

But there is a new crises on the home front. There's a young man that has come into his life. It started as casual sex. But emotionally he's fallen harder for this guy than he ever thought was possible. He had become so used to the polite distance at home, that he was shocked to find out this late in life that he could actually be intimate with someone at every level. He could be completely himself and not hold anything back.

He is again at a crossroads. Which way to go? He has put twenty years into his marriage. But now there doesn't seem to be anything there. His kids don't need his support - well not in the same direct way anymore. He might have been able to go on with his wife for years. But now that he has experienced what being a whole person in love feels like, he can no longer make the sacrifice.

***

It's easy to isolate one aspect of Joe's life and draw moral conclusions, while ignoring other parts of the story. Joe certainly got into a mess. But what I'm trying to say here is that there are no easy choices. Yes, many have been in Joe's shoes and taken different paths.

Some (like me) had at least enough foresight in those early years to know that getting married wasn't a solution - it just dragged one more bystander into the plot. But others like Joe really thought that marriage was their moral obligation.

And once you start down that road, you soon face the fact that you can only reverse course by blowing up your whole life, and injuring a lot of innocent people in the process.

It's easy from the outside to say that if Joe had exited the marriage at 35, he could have survived that crises, and by 45 been happy in a new life AND still have his kids (maybe even his wife) still in his life as well.

But on the other hand, I don't think his decision to stay committed was obviously wrong in that moment. And as I said back then, sometimes the only thing that makes the marriage possible is the ability to find sexual satisfaction elsewhere.

At the same time - relationships are built on trust and intimacy. Keeping secrets kill both those things and will kill the relationship eventually. Joe paid an emotional price for the cover-up. His "solution" for preserving the marriage killed it in the long run.

 

[AleXXX UK]

I think there are some additional moral dimensions here that have not yet been brought up.

And since the point of the story is to discuss the type of person, rather than Mark, specifically, let me make up a parallel character that I'll call Joe.

It's 1992 - in the US there has been a Republican president since Joe was in grade school. Joe is 25 and has for the first time met a girl that he could see himself married to. He is just starting to advance in his military career and he wants to be married and have a family. The only problem here is that he loves screwing guys.

Of course he loves screwing women, too. And everyone sows some wild oats in there early 20's and then settles down and gets married, right? He has to make a decision. It's not that hard. Every moral authority around him - church, military, family, peers - tell him directly or indirectly that marriage is holy, right, and next step in his journey as a man.

No matter how much he likes man sex, he sees no future there. The gay community, (with which he doesn't really identify), seems to be all about AIDS and civil rights. He doesn't have AIDS. He doesn't know anyone with AIDS. And since he doesn't broadcast his same-sex exploits, he doesn't face any discrimination.

Marriage to a man isn't going to happen in his lifetime and the only gays with kids are lesbians.

So Joe makes a choice that is so obvious that it doesn't even feel like a choice - he gets married.

Ten years pass - it's 2002. Joe now has a position of authority in the military. Who would have thought ten years earlier that he would now be leading men (and women!) in a war after his country was attacked.

Joe has kids in school, a devoted wife who he has grown to appreciate even more as a partner over the years. He's respected in his community.

But, in some respects marriage hasn't turned out the way he thought it would. It has turned in to something of a sexual void - there is nothing there of any interest. But he can deal with that and get sex elsewhere. The hard part is he is feeling more and more isolated from his wife, his family, everyone really. He has this secret - this dark terrible secret. If he was to let this secret out then his whole world would collapse. Keeping this secret has almost become a second career.

Emotionally, he is at a crossroads. He's 35. He feels too old to start again from scratch, but too young to be settling for a life that is going in the wrong direction. What does he do? What is the right moral path?

• He could tell his wife that he is gay. (She would go ballistic. She would divorce him. She would take his kids away. She would end his military career. He would become an object of pity and ridicule among all his friends.)
• He could stop having sex with men. (Right. Like he hasn't promised to do that 100 times before. It never sticks. And, in a way, it's the occasional "sexual vacations" that make his marriage possible. He would never have made it this far otherwise.)

He decides to double down on the marriage. He will not get a divorce and abandon the commitment he has made to his wife and children. He will do whatever it takes. It may feel like he is losing a piece of his soul, but if that's the price of keeping the secret and saving his family, then that's what he will do. He has made his choice.

Another ten years go by - it's 2012. The last kid has started college. The nest is empty. He's only 45, but now has retired from the military with a pension. He has recently started a new job with a defense contractor at a good salary. Money, which had been so tight in the early years, is now no problem.

But there is a new crises on the home front. There's a young man that has come into his life. It started as casual sex. But emotionally he's fallen harder for this guy than he ever thought was possible. He had become so used to the polite distance at home, that he was shocked to find out this late in life that he could actually be intimate with someone at every level. He could be completely himself and not hold anything back.

He is again at a crossroads. Which way to go? He has put twenty years into his marriage. But now there doesn't seem to be anything there. His kids don't need his support - well not in the same direct way anymore. He might have been able to go on with his wife for years. But now that he has experienced what being a whole person in love feels like, he can no longer make the sacrifice.

***

It's easy to isolate one aspect of Joe's life and draw moral conclusions, while ignoring other parts of the story. Joe certainly got into a mess. But what I'm trying to say here is that there are no easy choices. Yes, many have been in Joe's shoes and taken different paths.

Some (like me) had at least enough foresight in those early years to know that getting married wasn't a solution - it just dragged one more bystander into the plot. But others like Joe really thought that marriage was their moral obligation.

And once you start down that road, you soon face the fact that you can only reverse course by blowing up your whole life, and injuring a lot of innocent people in the process.

It's easy from the outside to say that if Joe had exited the marriage at 35, he could have survived that crises, and by 45 been happy in a new life AND still have his kids (maybe even his wife) still in his life as well.

But on the other hand, I don't think his decision to stay committed was obviously wrong in that moment. And as I said back then, sometimes the only thing that makes the marriage possible is the ability to find sexual satisfaction elsewhere.

At the same time - relationships are built on trust and intimacy. Keeping secrets kill both those things and will kill the relationship eventually. Joe paid an emotional price for the cover-up. His "solution" for preserving the marriage killed it in the long run.

This one is easy. Joe Simpson is a coward. He picked every easy option in life, tried to please as many other people in his life as possible - except himself. He landed a wife, some great kids, excelled in his career - all at the expense of denying himself his true feelings and happiness. Joe sold out. Was it rewarded? In many respects but ultimately Joe is a self deceiving cowardly closeted liar.

Now in his twilight years, tired of lying to himself and others, wondering whether it was all worthwhile, realising its either now or never. It starts with a double life and ends up shacking up with a twink younger than his kids. Pathetic.

There are no hard decisions in life, only right one and wrong ones.

 

[peter123]

Pathetic.
There are no hard decisions in life, only right one and wrong ones.

Not Pathetic lol. there are hard decisions in life and right one and wrong ones.