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Mormon leaders call for measures protecting gay rights

W!nston

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Mormon leaders call for measures protecting gay rights
Associated Press By BRADY McCOMBS and RACHEL ZOLL

SALT LAKE CITY (AP) — Mormon church leaders are making a national appeal for a "balanced approach" in the clash between gay rights and religious freedom.

The church is promising to support some housing and job protections for gays and lesbians in exchange for legal protections for believers who object to the behavior of others.

It's not clear how much common ground the Mormons will find with this new campaign. The church insists it is making no changes in doctrine, and still believes it's against the law of God to have sex outside marriage between a man and a woman.

But church leaders who held a rare news conference Tuesday said "we must all learn to live with others who do not share the same beliefs or values."

The language of the new campaign mirrors a website the church launched in 2012 instructing Latter-day Saints to be more accepting and compassionate toward gays. The church made clear then and now that it still opposes gay marriage and insists on its right to apply its own rules within church-affiliated charities, schools, businesses and properties, even those that provide services to non-Mormons.

The church announced the campaign in a rare news conference including three elders from a high-level Mormon governing body called the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles.

Church leaders condemned discrimination against gays in stark terms, speaking of centuries of "persecution and even violence against homosexuals." bc

"Ultimately, most of society recognized that such treatment was simply wrong, and that such basic human rights as securing a job or a place to live should not depend on a person's sexual orientation," Neill Marriott, a member of the church's Public Affairs Committee, said in a prepared text ahead of the news conference.

Mormon leaders still want to hire and fire workers based not only on religious beliefs, but also on behavior standards known as honor codes that require gays and lesbians to remain celibate or marry someone of the opposite sex. The church also wants legal protections for religious objectors who work in government and health care, such as a physician who refuses to perform an abortion, or provide artificial insemination for a lesbian couple.

"Accommodating the rights of all people — including their religious rights — requires wisdom and judgment, compassion and fairness," said Jeffrey R. Holland, one of the apostles. "Politically, it certainly requires dedication to the highest level of statesmanship. Nothing is achieved if either side resorts to bullying, political point scoring or accusations of bigotry."

Accommodations for religious objectors have factored into every state legislative debate over gay rights. But political pressure on rights groups to make concessions to religious conservatives is plummeting as support for same-sex marriage grows around the country. In some states, such as Arizona, business leaders now side with gay advocates, saying extensive religious exemptions hurt a state's image.

When the U.S. Supreme Court set a broad expansion of gay marriage in motion last year, religious conservatives said they would press states to allow some groups, companies and people to refuse some benefits or service for gay spouses. And gay rights groups seeking job and housing protections have faced an uphill battle in the more politically and religiously conservative states. Under these circumstances, advocates for broader religious exceptions believe they can win some concessions.

The Mormon church operates an extensive network of charities, schools and for-profit businesses around the country, with total operating budgets in the billions of dollars, but the new LDS approach is likely to be especially significant in the Mormon strongholds of Utah, Idaho, Nevada and Arizona, where the church and its members play a large civic role.

After coming under intense criticism for leading the fight for California's Proposition 8, church leaders have been trying to heal tensions by telling Latter-day Saints to be more loving and respectful toward gays and lesbians, while appealing to gay and lesbian Mormons to stay in the church.

SOURCE

Wolves in sheep's clothing...

"The church is promising to support some housing and job protections for gays and lesbians in exchange for legal protections for believers who object to the behavior of others."
 

gb2000ie

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It's far from perfect - but it's surely a big leap forward to where the Mormon Church used to be!

(not saying we should accept their offer, but at least they're looking at gays as human beings now)

B.
 

topdog

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Dear LDS,

You give me equal protection under the law, and I'll agree to switch bakeries if you decide to throw a tantrum over making me a wedding cake. I can live with that. (There are an awful lot of gay cake decorators, wedding planners, and photographers out there, you know.)

Have a nice day. :)
 

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But church leaders who held a rare news conference Tuesday said "we must all learn to live with others who do not share the same beliefs or values."

That sums up the whole Mormon position to me. Like so many others on the far right fringe, they refuse to recognize that homosexuality is NOT a matter of "beliefs or values". It's a question of genetics; compromise and exchange have NO PLACE in the discussion.
 

W!nston

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How the Mormons Punked the Press

The Mormon church punked the national press yesterday by calling a press conference purportedly about their support of some basic rights for LGBTQ people. The press conference was, in fact, mostly about defending Mormons' right to discriminate.

Major news organizations led with headlines claiming the Mormon church had come out in favor of LGBTQ rights.

The New York Times: "Mormon Leaders Call for Measures Protecting Gay Rights."

ABC: "Mormon Leaders Call for Measures Protecting Gay Rights.

CNN: "Mormon church backs LGBT rights -- with one condition."

But if you go to the Mormon church's own website, what you'll find is a news release titled "Mormon Leaders Call for Laws That Protect Religious Freedom." The Mormon church's latest maneuver is not about gay rights. It is primarily about giving believers the right to discriminate.

The new Mormon position is like that candy with a razor blade inside that your mom warned you about on Halloween. While calling for LGBTQ people to be protected from those who hate them for non-religious reasons (and who are those people, anyway?), they have hidden their real agenda, which is to legalize such discrimination by anyone who claims their prejudice is backed by faith.

Today's press conference took place in a twilight zone where parents are in danger of being jailed for teaching their kids about Jesus, and where believers can't "share their views openly in the public square." Oh, please. Show me the Mormons who have been jailed for sharing their views. There are none. And if you can point to one instance of the government preventing good Mormons from practicing their religion in their homes, we'll eat our hat.

One of three speakers at the press conference was Dallin Oaks. He has long been the Mormon church's lead antagonist of gay people. A few years ago Mr. Oaks was asked what a parent should say to their own gay child if he asked, "Can I bring my partner to our home to visit?" Mr. Oaks said, "I can imagine some circumstances in which it might be possible to say, 'Yes, come, but don't expect to stay overnight. Don't expect to be a lengthy house guest. Don't expect us to take you out and introduce you to our friends, or to deal with you in a public situation that would imply our approval of your 'partnership.'" It is galling that the LDS church would use him as a mediator with the LGBTQ community.

The key moment in Mr. Oaks' speech comes when he claims, "Churches should stand on at least as strong a footing as any other entity when they enter the public sphere to participate in public policy debates." At least as strong? Why does Mr. Oaks think that religions should enjoy more influence than other entities? He wants special privileges and special rights for churches and for religious people. The painful irony? He is demanding something gay people have long been accused of seeking: special rights. The LGBTQ movement only demands equal rights. We want to be treated fairly. It is the religious people in this country who demand special treatment, who receive special treatment, and it is profoundly inappropriate.

If these Mormon leaders were true disciples of Jesus, they would hold a press conference tomorrow and complain about the Pharisees in their ranks. They would apologize for the hatred and intolerance that their church has shown gay people for decades. They would apologize in tears, remembering all the LGBTQ Mormons who have taken their lives because of the bigotry their church fostered. And they would unconditionally endorse legislation that protects gay people from discrimination, especially from religious people.

Don't believe for one second that the LDS church this morning showed compassion or humanity. They're just trying to codify their right to discriminate against LGBTQ people.

SOURCE
 

cockyblu

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what is that legal protection for believers... ah okay, so a right to discriminate.

how nice of them to sugar coat their true intentions.
 

W!nston

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So they are okay with all the 'non-believers' being bound by the Constitution as long as 'believers' aren't?

What a recruiting technique! All a bigot's gotta do is say they are a 'believer' to have the legal right to discriminate? "What a country..."

Somehow the use of the term 'believers' reminds me of some rhetoric spewed by Islamic 'believers' and the 'non-belivers' (infidels).

There should be no religious exemptions where the law is concerned.
 

hhindd

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Anyone see that TV show about the Mormon men who are out & proud but are married to women? I couldnt work out if it was a joke or not, truly bizzare.
 

hhindd

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Anyone see that TV show about the Mormon men who are out & proud but are married to women? I couldnt work out if it was a joke or not, truly bizzare.

dailymail.co.uk news article Gay-advocates-assail-new-TV-"My-Husbands-Not-Gay" (buy they are gay!?)
 

W!nston

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I think the Mormon's can read the writing on the wall and know Gay Equality is about to be the law of the land once the Supreme Court's decision on Gay Marriage Equality is published later this year. Once that benchmark is set for Gay Marriage all other facets of discrimination against Gays will be under the magnifying lens. Jobs, housing, medical, insurance, property, civil and criminal rights... all will be given the same equality for Gays and all other Americans.

The religious minority is trying to get their special 'rights' and exceptions in place now before the law of the land demands fair and equal treatment for Gay Americans.

These Mormon leaders are cunning. They offer Gays an olive branch with one hand and a new set of shackles with the other. Don't be fooled by these wolves dressed in sheep's clothing...
 

W!nston

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No apology? Really? Mormons question leader Dallin H. Oaks’ stance

No apology? Really? Mormons question leader Dallin H. Oaks’ stance
Salt Lake Tribune | By Peggy Fletcher Stack | Published Jan 30 2015 02:30PM

2060356417bd4e3375fc4afd4f16a1feda070816.jpg

(Al Hartmann | The Salt Lake Tribune) LDS Apostle Dallin H. Oaks makes a public statement for religious freedom and nondiscrimination in Salt Lake City Tuesday Jan. 27, 2015. He was one of four LDS leaders that called for legislation that protects vital religious freedoms while at the same time supporting protections in housing and employment for LGBT people

LDS apostle Dallin H. Oaks set off a global chain reaction among Mormons this week, when he said he wasn't sure apologizing for the faith's past rhetoric on homosexuality would be advisable.

"I know that the history of the church is not to seek apologies or to give them," Oaks said in an interview Tuesday. "We sometimes look back on issues and say, 'Maybe that was counterproductive for what we wish to achieve,' but we look forward and not backward."

The church doesn't "seek apologies," he said, "and we don't give them."

The Mormon leader made the same point, only stronger, Thursday during a video chat on Trib Talk by insisting that the word "apology" doesn't appear in LDS scriptures.

Many Mormons across social media have reacted with dismay at hearing an LDS apostle reject out of hand the idea of apologizing.

"I have to be honest, few actions or comments over the last few years from the church that I have committed to and served all my life, have stung so deeply and so personally than Elder Oaks' glib and dismissive remarks said today, after the LDS Church's press conference," Mormon filmmaker Kendall Wilcox wrote Tuesday on his Facebook page. "It has been hard to maintain composure."

Still, Wilcox said, he would take Oaks' words "as yet another challenge and opportunity to be stretched and expanded by the effort to empathize with his life and perspective. Empathy is not for wimps."

Salt Lake City lawyer Steve Evans, writing on the Mormon blog By Common Consent, took up the question of institutional LDS apologies.

"We've come close," Evans wrote. "Pastor Cecil Murray received a personal apology from President Gordon B. Hinckley for the church's participation in slavery and racism. In 2007, Elder Henry B. Eyring offered words of apology on behalf of church members at a memorial service for victims of the 1857 Mountain Meadows Massacre. The church also issued a public apology for performing baptisms for the dead on behalf of victims of the Holocaust."

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints doesn't apologize for "doctrines," the blogger noted. "Doctrines come from God; they don't change and we do not make excuses for them."

Everything else is "human," Evans wrote. "I think we can apologize, and have apologized, for messing things up and figuring things out as we go, and we do that once in a while."

Several By Common Consent commenters echoed that sentiment.

"Apologies can also have another really important effect of signaling to members that things have really changed or need to change," onecommenter wrote. "Sadly, I think this is now the case in the area of LGBT issues. I think it is clear that the church really does want us to deeply examine throughout the church how we treat our LGBT brothers and sisters. Yet, clearly that message is not clear for ever so many."

Apologies, especially "if they are rare and special," the commenter noted, "get significant attention and have serious symbolic weight."

A blogger who goes by Christer1979 at Feminist Mormon Housewives quoted the following verse from the Doctrine and Covenants, part of the LDS canon: "And now, behold, I say unto you, that the thing which will be of the most worth unto you will be to declare repentance unto this people, that you may bring souls unto me, that you may rest with them in the kingdom of my Father. "

The blogger does not need Mormon leaders "to pretend to be above apologies.

"My church membership was never about them," Christer wrote. "It is the things they taught me: Jesus Christ and his gospel. It is about hope and forgiveness and growing through our mistakes.

" ... I would have greater trust for my church leaders and their ability to help me follow Christ," the blogger added, "if they could candidly discuss the mistakes they've made and how they're becoming better."

SOURCE
 

Urban

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What an absurd exchange! And what hogwash!

I wonder if the word "honesty" appears in the Mormon scriptures.
 

W!nston

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'Mormon Stories' Podcast Founder Contemplates Excommunication

'Mormon Stories' Podcast Founder Contemplates Excommunication
NPR | FEBRUARY 01, 2015 7:32 AM ET

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John Dehlin tells NPR's Rachel Martin he thinks "excommunication is definitely the path that the stake president's going to take."
Catherine Weber Scott /Courtesy of John Dehlin


John Dehlin started a popular podcast and website called Mormon Stories as a space for people to question Mormon teachings. Next Sunday, he'll face a disciplinary hearing where he expects to be officially excommunicated from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

Dehlin is charged with apostasy for publicly supporting same-sex marriage, the ordination of women, and for questioning church doctrine.

Dehlin tells NPR's Rachel Martin that 15 years ago, when he started studying the church's history, he found what he learned about founding prophet Joseph Smith "deeply disturbing."

Like the fact that he married more than 30 women, Dehlin says. "Many of them were teenagers, one as young as 14. Many of them were other men's wives, who, you know, were still living."

And beyond that, he has doubts about the foundational scriptural texts for Mormons, The Book of Mormon and the Book of Abraham. "I discovered that there's a mountain of evidence that indicates that they're 19th century documents and not anything necessarily directly of God. And so that's led me to not be able to believe everything the church teaches."

Dehlin is a fifth-generation Mormon, and was raised "very devout and active." He knew he was taking a risk, talking about his concerns. "I started Mormon Stories about 10 years ago and I was petrified about that first microphone," he says. "I thought, wow, there's no going back once I do this, and to be honest, I've lived with the fear of excommunication and other types of things for 10 years."

After trying for years to stay with the church, Dehlin and his family stopped attending services in the summer of 2014. "Honestly I haven't missed church yet at all," he says. "In fact it's been an incredibly healing thing for our family. That's not to put down those who do go to church ... I guess we still have hope that we can make the Mormon church our home, but they would have to make a lot of very significant changes before we could do that."

SOURCE
 

W!nston

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A thought crossed my mind earlier that I want to share.

The Church of Latter Day Saints - The Mormons - are seeking a pre-emptive 'religious exemption' in exchange for not fighting against Gay Equality. That thought has been eating at me since I first read it a few weeks ago. This flim-flam offer comes from a very wealthy and powerful cult that has some stranger than usual quirks of their own.

They are a hypocritical in their assertion than God says marriage is between one man and one woman... but, but, but what about their polygamous past? Who knows how many polygamous households still exist among these 'believers'? The Brown Family's 'Sister Wives' case for example. Polygamy is widespread in the Old and New Testament of the Bible. Lot's of 'begatting' going on. Not to mention other religions polygamous marriages.

This little extract is from a family law website:

Polygamy and bigamy are illegal in the US, but as the Utah "sister wives" show, it goes on anyway. Essentially they mean the same thing - someone has more than one spouse. More often than not, it's when a man has more than one wife.

SOURCE

Polygamy is still practiced today among the Mormons. How does that fit the definition of one man + one woman?

So how can they demand a religious exemption to discriminate against Gay couples and Gays in general really while they have had a history of polygamy instead of the one man/one woman concept?

Maybe I didn't explain that very well but I hope you get my meaning.

I'm a little bit tired and I probably should have waited to post this until I'm more clear headed.

:)
 
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