The General Star Trek Thread

[Manta1983]

Here's my (admittedly probably over-optimistic) view on homosexuality in Star Trek - we're not told about it because it isn't any more of an issue than your eye color. If say Riker had a boyfriend/husband and they both were on the Enterprise, Picard wouldn't have blinked an eye.

Given the way that the Star Trek series was handled after DS9 when censorship about GLBT on TV was lightening up? I wouldn't have trusted TIIC to show a homosexual relationship with any sort of dignity or class instead of making it into a stereotype.

As far as I'm concerned - I pretend Voyager and Enterprise didn't happen. The last episode of Voyager is un-forgivable, and the pussification of the Borg in Enterprise (and indeed Voyager) is an equal cardinal sin. After DS9 it's all down-hill, and Enterprise is just pure sell-out. *ducks for cover*

I can't completely turn my back on Voyager because it was the first Star Trek series I ever watched beginning to end in the first run. They did have some good episodes (mostly in the 4th season) but it's the most disappointing, given the excellent premise and TPTB instead chose to make it "TNG in the Delta Quadrant" and did very little with it's characters excluding the Doctor and Seven of Nine, who on the other end of the spectrum we saw TOO much of.

As for Enterprise I hated the first two seasons (stopped watching season 2 after the travesty of "A Night In Sickbay") but the last two were fairly good. Their finale however was a total mess and simultaneously ass-raped both Enterprise AND "The Pegasus". Valentine to the fans indeed :no:

 

[gb2000ie]

Here's my (admittedly probably over-optimistic) view on homosexuality in Star Trek - we're not told about it because it isn't any more of an issue than your eye color. If say Riker had a boyfriend/husband and they both were on the Enterprise, Picard wouldn't have blinked an eye.

I'd love to be able to look at it that way - but if that were true, then surely we would have seen two guys together in the background somewhere some time? I don't think ST needed a gay plot, just the odd random gay couple in the background who totally blend in because homosexuality is simply not an issue.

B.

 

[Manta1983]

I'd love to be able to look at it that way - but if that were true, then surely we would have seen two guys together in the background somewhere some time? I don't think ST needed a gay plot, just the odd random gay couple in the background who totally blend in because homosexuality is simply not an issue.

Perhaps we have - two of the nameless faces in Ten Forward or Quark's or Voyager's Mess Hall could very well have been the odd random gay couple. Yes once again I know I'm overly optimistic.

The only Trek ep that dealt with possible same-sex romance that gave it some dignity was the DS9 episode "Rejoined" where Jadzia reconnects with a Trill female doctor and two of their symbionts' previous hosts (a man and a woman) were married, but Trill society forbade successive hosts from getting involved. It was a very good but very sad episode, and coming from me (not a Dax fan here, of either Jadzia or Ezri, always thought Kira was much more interesting) that's a compliment.

The other episode is "The Outcast" from TNG, which I always felt they copped out on by having the gender-less Soran clearly played by a woman. If it had been a male actor and Cmdr "Resident Enterprise Pussy Hound" Riker had followed the same actions, it would have been better and make more of a statement than it did. But then again, in 1992 when this episode aired, homosexuality was still relatively taboo on TV.

When VOY was bringing on the Seven of Nine character, there was talk that she may be a lesbian. Obviously that's not what we got, but I wish they'd been able to go ahead with it and hook her up with Janeway. J/7 is my crack pairing and God knows Janeway needed the lovin', and *NOT* from a hologram. There are few episodes of Voyager I loathe more than the ones featuring that stupid Fair Haven holo-village.

 

[Dendood]

Man, Fair Haven gets all the rough breaks. My bud despises EVERYTHING about that storyline but I kind of liked it. If you want bad, run with the episode where she inherits the ghost house... talk about Romance novel bad. -At least Fair Haven had the very delectable "Tom", with his come hither cleft chin and manly fur face. I luv Irishmen, even in fiction.

For all the bad rap the Trek series gained over the years: Captain Mom. Starship Hilton. Federation Group Hugs. -I think the episodes hold up to repeat viewing years later. Lots of really good story telling. In an age of reality TV, it's nice to know people CAN write a beginning, middle and end AND wrap up a story in a single hour. That takes real skill and I tip my hat to anyone who can pull that off.

Some favorites:

First contact with the Borg.

Melding the Tribble story from the original into DS-9.

The year of Hell.

Data reprising a Fist Full of Dollars Western parody.

And my favorite "gay" episode....

Jordi gets into an interracial bromance with a sweet heart of a Borg...One with a nice bubble butt to boot.

Battlestar Galactica rewrote the script of Sci-fi, but the Trekks set a high standard.

 

[Manta1983]

Man, Fair Haven gets all the rough breaks. My bud despises EVERYTHING about that storyline but I kind of liked it. If you want bad, run with the episode where she inherits the ghost house... talk about Romance novel bad. -At least Fair Haven had the very delectable "Tom", with his come hither cleft chin and manly fur face. I luv Irishmen, even in fiction.

My biggest dislike of Fair Haven was what it did to the character of Janeway. Quite frankly it made her look mentally unstable - not a good thing given that we had seen her go off her rocker in "Equinox" at the start of the season and that season 5 had some questionable characterizations. I just can't buy that an experienced Starfleet captain would *fall in love* with a hologram. I could see her using him as some sort of holographic vibrator on legs (and he *was* hot) to relieve six years of tension but actually falling in love. I would expect that out of an adolescent having their first sexual experience on the holodeck. He's not a "special" hologram like The Doctor, just a normal run of the mill holo-man. Then in the follow up "Spirit Folk" she actually said "we shouldn't reset the holograms because the crew have gotten attached to them" while Tom, Harry and the Doctor were in danger in the holodeck! Uh yeah, Kathy, don't you mean you don't want your "man" reset? I actually screamed at the TV "You fucking stupid bitch!" when this episode first ran and 11 years later it still burns me up. :angry: Not a good legacy for Trek's first main female captain.

Oh my, Lt. Hawk :drooling: And yes, in the section 31 novel set after First Contact he is indeed gay. And this may or may not be a popular opinion but I find early TNG Data ridiculously hot.

 

[anamia]

The Next Generation

 

[Wes2475]

I thought Wesley Crusher and the Traveler was kinda gay moment. Kinda like a stalker way..lol...
I got hook on "Voyager" only cause I was hoping they would finally put a gay character on Star Trek. I thought since this was suppose to be a distance future of ours.
The two character they could have made gay to me would have to be "Ensign Harry Kim and Tom Paris..lol..I know they were good friend but there were time they were stuck in the shuttle together...
Janeway and Seven of Nine would have been a good gay character..

 

[loretta]

hey there,
if someone do not know:

google star trek phase II.
a fan project doing their own vids - extremely good and there is a gay episode "fire and blood" watch it! i cried so much
their stories are excellent and some of the old actors are involved: Sulu or Tasha Yar

 

[dutchpig]

I always thought Janeway is a real fag hag

 

[rdroomvj]

Voyager

Paris and Kim.

Hmm nice poyential

 

[XMan101]

Voyager

Paris and Kim.

Hmm nice poyential

Damn you're so right ) You took the thoughts out of my head

 

[Cerno]

Star Trek is a strong franchise but why did ST Enterprise flopped and had to be canceled?

The only thing I hate about Star Trek is their ridiculously humanoid aliens. But then again, I understand the cost of creating real aliens will b so expensive. Yet, viewers want to see more exciting aliens.

Perhaps Star Trek should hv created monstrous creatures like Aliens franchise.

 

[brmstn69]

Star Trek is a strong franchise but why did ST Enterprise flopped and had to be canceled?

The only thing I hate about Star Trek is their ridiculously humanoid aliens. But then again, I understand the cost of creating real aliens will b so expensive. Yet, viewers want to see more exciting aliens.

Perhaps Star Trek should hv created monstrous creatures like Aliens franchise.

Given that the original "Star Trek" was cancelled after three seasons and Enterprise lasted four, it's hardly fair to say it flopped. It just wasn't as popular as TNG, DS9, or Voyager...

"Stargate Universe", now that was a flop...

 

[ihno]

Yes, it flopped. I think it's fair to say that. And it flopped because it was bad. Rick Berman didn't change his concepts since the 80s and people just got bored with seeing every week the same stuff. Voy was already a copy of TNG but ENT was the copy of a copy. Enterprise got better when Coto took over in the last season but the watchers were already away, when that happened.

"Stargate Universe", now that was a flop...

I don't remember that...

 

[Cerno]

"Stargate Universe", now that was a flop...[/B][/SIZE][/COLOR][/FONT]

Stargate Universe is actually better than Star Trek in term of concept. At least in SGU, we don't see human-looking aliens like in Star Trek. But SGU lacks of action, too much drama, slow-paced. And SGU was also born from the cancellation of SG-Atlantis. So many fans boycott the series.

I think SGU season 2 is getting better but it's too late. Lifeline had been unplugged

 

[ihno]

SGU had no concept other than stealing from Battlestar Galactica. The producers replaced the certain lightness and humour from SG1 and replaced it with "bad mood TV". They failed and that was good.

 

[Cerno]

SGU had no concept other than stealing from Battlestar Galactica. The producers replaced the certain lightness and humour from SG1 and replaced it with "bad mood TV". They failed and that was good.

I did hate the drama on SGU. Not exciting and slow paced. I dont think SGU stole BSG concept. Similar only in term of spaceship going no where. Then again, Star Trek franchise is also like that.

 

[ihno]

I did hate the drama on SGU. Not exciting and slow paced. I dont think SGU stole BSG concept. Similar only in term of spaceship going no where. Then again, Star Trek franchise is also like that.

Maybe we have a misunderstanding about "concept"...

SGU's concept was not a "ship going out".

The "new" concept was the way the story was told: focusing on personal problems, dark light, one depression after the other, forbidding the actors to smile, bad mood, everbody hates everybody, shaking camera etc. pp. And that was stolen from BSG.

The same with Star Trek: Rick Berman produced TNG, VOY and ENT. Even though they have a different "setting", he never changed the concept "alien of the week".

 

[Cerno]

Maybe we have a misunderstanding about "concept"...

SGU's concept was not a "ship going out".

The "new" concept was the way the story was told: focusing on personal problems, dark light, one depression after the other, forbidding the actors to smile, bad mood, everbody hates everybody, shaking camera etc. pp. And that was stolen from BSG.

The same with Star Trek: Rick Berman produced TNG, VOY and ENT. Even though they have a different "setting", he never changed the concept "alien of the week".

Well, if u want to find similarities among things, u'll always find some. I call it coincidence. maybe SGU producers were inspired. But really, SGU season 2 started to get interested as they set out to find "god". Now, the plot hangs :angry:

Yeah I dont like Star Trek aliens, too humanoid for me. More like Halloween costumes >< Can;t they make creatures like Aliens?

 

[ihno]

Well, if u want to find similarities among things, u'll always find some.

Lol. You can hardly miss the constant plagiating they did. SGU deserved to fail: SG1 and SGA were shows, that had humour and didn't take themselves very seriously. That were the strong sides of them. They took that away in order to copy another, more sucessful show - the audience didn't appreciate that.

I call it coincidence. maybe SGU producers were inspired.

This "inspiration" is called "copy and paste".

But really, SGU season 2 started to get interested as they set out to find "god". Now, the plot hangs :angry:

The producers installed this plot hastily even they knew there would be no third season.

Yeah I dont like Star Trek aliens, too humanoid for me. More like Halloween costumes >< Can;t they make creatures like Aliens?

No, they can't, at least not often. Too expensive (if they shall look good) and too effortful (greenscreening etc.). They had some CGI-creatures like species 8472 (VOY) and in the third season of ENT. But they look quite much like plastic. CGI-creatures often look unrealistic on the big screen too. For example Yoda from Star Wars. The full CGI didn't look good in Episode 1 - so you're stuck with human actors. Of course the weekly alien with a different foreskin-bulge got boring after a while.