• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest which gives you limited access.

    By joining you will gain full access to thousands of Videos, Pictures & Much More.

    Membership is absolutely FREE and registration is FAST & SIMPLE so please, Register Today and join one of the friendliest communities on the net!



    You must be at least 18 years old to legally access this forum.
  • Hello Guest,

    Thanks for remaining an active member on GayHeaven. We hope you've enjoyed the forum so far.

    Our records indicate that you have not posted on our forums in several weeks. Why not dismiss this notice & make your next post today by doing one of the following:
    • General Discussion Area - Engage in a conversation with other members.
    • Gay Picture Collections - Share any pictures you may have collected from blogs and other sites. Don't know how to post? Click HERE to visit our easy 3-steps tutorial for picture posting.
    • Show Yourself Off - Brave enough to post your own pictures or videos? Let us see, enjoy & comment on that for you.
    • Gay Clips - Start sharing hot video clips you may have. Don't know how to get started? Click HERE to view our detailed tutorial for video posting.
    As you can see there are a bunch of options mentioned in here and much more available for you to start participating today! Before making your first post, please don't forget to read the Forum Rules.

    Active and contributing members will earn special ranks. Click HERE to view the full list of ranks & privileges given to active members & how you can easily obtain them.

    Please do not flood the forum with "Thank you" posts. Instead, please use the "thanks button"

    We Hope you enjoy the forum & thanks for your efforts!
    The GayHeaven Team.
  • Dear GayHeaven users,

    We are happy to announce that we have successfully upgraded our forum to a new more reliable and overall better platform called XenForo.
    Any feedback is welcome and we hope you get to enjoy this new platform for years and years to come and, as always, happy posting!

    GH Team

An Open Letter to David Cameron and the IOC By Stephen Fry

Oege

Member
Joined
Jun 26, 2013
Messages
166
Reaction score
0
Points
0
UK actor/writer Stephen Fry published an open letter on his website, please read it, copy it and post it around!


An Open Letter to David Cameron and the IOC
By Stephen Fry
August 7th, 2013
Dear Prime Minister, M Rogge, Lord Coe and Members of the International Olympic Committee,
I write in the earnest hope that all those with a love of sport and the Olympic spirit will consider the stain on the Five Rings that occurred when the 1936 Berlin Olympics proceeded under the exultant aegis of a tyrant who had passed into law, two years earlier, an act which singled out for special persecution a minority whose only crime was the accident of their birth. In his case he banned Jews from academic tenure or public office, he made sure that the police turned a blind eye to any beatings, thefts or humiliations afflicted on them, he burned and banned books written by them. He claimed they “polluted” the purity and tradition of what it was to be German, that they were a threat to the state, to the children and the future of the Reich. He blamed them simultaneously for the mutually exclusive crimes of Communism and for the controlling of international capital and banks. He blamed them for ruining the culture with their liberalism and difference. The Olympic movement at that time paid precisely no attention to this evil and proceeded with the notorious Berlin Olympiad, which provided a stage for a gleeful Führer and only increased his status at home and abroad. It gave him confidence. All historians are agreed on that. What he did with that confidence we all know.
Putin is eerily repeating this insane crime, only this time against LGBT Russians. Beatings, murders and humiliations are ignored by the police. Any defence or sane discussion of homosexuality is against the law. Any statement, for example, that Tchaikovsky was gay and that his art and life reflects this sexuality and are an inspiration to other gay artists would be punishable by imprisonment. It is simply not enough to say that gay Olympians may or may not be safe in their village. The IOC absolutely must take a firm stance on behalf of the shared humanity it is supposed to represent against the barbaric, fascist law that Putin has pushed through the Duma. Let us not forget that Olympic events used not only to be athletic, they used to include cultural competitions. Let us realise that in fact, sport is cultural. It does not exist in a bubble outside society or politics. The idea that sport and politics don’t connect is worse than disingenuous, worse than stupid. It is wickedly, wilfully wrong. Everyone knows politics interconnects with everything for “politics” is simply the Greek for “to do with the people”.
An absolute ban on the Russian Winter Olympics of 2014 on Sochi is simply essential. Stage them elsewhere in Utah, Lillyhammer, anywhere you like. At all costs Putin cannot be seen to have the approval of the civilised world.
He is making scapegoats of gay people, just as Hitler did Jews. He cannot be allowed to get away with it. I know whereof I speak. I have visited Russia, stood up to the political deputy who introduced the first of these laws, in his city of St Petersburg. I looked into the face of the man and, on camera, tried to reason with him, counter him, make him understand what he was doing. All I saw reflected back at me was what Hannah Arendt called, so memorably, “the banality of evil.” A stupid man, but like so many tyrants, one with an instinct of how to exploit a disaffected people by finding scapegoats. Putin may not be quite as oafish and stupid as Deputy Milonov but his instincts are the same. He may claim that the “values” of Russia are not the “values” of the West, but this is absolutely in opposition to Peter the Great’s philosophy, and against the hopes of millions of Russians, those not in the grip of that toxic mix of shaven headed thuggery and bigoted religion, those who are agonised by the rolling back of democracy and the formation of a new autocracy in the motherland that has suffered so much (and whose music, literature and drama, incidentally I love so passionately).
I am gay. I am a Jew. My mother lost over a dozen of her family to Hitler’s anti-Semitism. Every time in Russia (and it is constantly) a gay teenager is forced into suicide, a lesbian “correctively” raped, gay men and women beaten to death by neo-Nazi thugs while the Russian police stand idly by, the world is diminished and I for one, weep anew at seeing history repeat itself.
“All that is needed for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing,” so wrote Edmund Burke. Are you, the men and women of the IOC going to be those “good” who allow evil to triumph?
The Summer Olympics of 2012 were one of the most glorious moments of my life and the life of my country. For there to be a Russian Winter Olympics would stain the movement forever and wipe away any of that glory. The Five Rings would finally be forever smeared, besmirched and ruined in the eyes of the civilised world.
I am begging you to resist the pressures of pragmatism, of money, of the oily cowardice of diplomats and to stand up resolutely and proudly for humanity the world over, as your movement is pledged to do. Wave your Olympic flag with pride as we gay men and women wave our Rainbow flag with pride. Be brave enough to live up to the oaths and protocols of your movement, which I remind you of verbatim below.
Rule 4 Cooperate with the competent public or private organisations and authorities in the endeavour to place sport at the service of humanity and thereby to promote peace
Rule 6: Act against any form of discrimination affecting the Olympic Movement
Rule 15 Encourage and support initiatives blending sport with culture and education
I especially appeal to you, Prime Minister, a man for whom I have the utmost respect. As the leader of a party I have for almost all of my life opposed and instinctively disliked, you showed a determined, passionate and clearly honest commitment to LGBT rights and helped push gay marriage through both houses of our parliament in the teeth of vehement opposition from so many of your own side. For that I will always admire you, whatever other differences may lie between us. In the end I believe you know when a thing is wrong or right. Please act on that instinct now.
Yours in desperate hope for humanity
Stephen Fry
 

gb2000ie

Super Vip
Joined
Dec 19, 2010
Messages
4,529
Reaction score
325
Points
0
Wow - that man can write, and it's great to see him put that talent to such good use!

B.
 

tonka

Super Vip
Joined
Apr 3, 2011
Messages
1,776
Reaction score
205
Points
63
I hope nobody boycotts the games. Go to the games. Have a wonderful gay time. Keep the issue in the spotlight. That will be much more effective.
Have Johnny Weir do skating commentary, with his Russian husband in tow. The athletes will step up with lots of support for human right (gay and otherwise). It will be fun; it will be serious; it will be inappropriate; it will be a worldwide stage!

Remember, the hero of the 36 Olympics was a black American from the rural south, not a master race Nazi. Jesse Owens put on an Olympic show of a skill and dignity that resonates to this day. Hitler lost that Olympics because Jesse Owens showed up.
 

james1981

Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2010
Messages
122
Reaction score
0
Points
16
I thought this was an interesting take on the issue. In a nutshell, the NHL has publicly supported gay rights so does it not logically follow that they should speak out against the laws in Russia? Since hockey is such a big part of the winter Olympics, wouldn't the Russian government have to at least consider the views of the NHL?

NHLers must take stance on gay rights
High-profile Olympic athletes should stand up to Putin
By: Gary Lawless
Winnipeg Free Press
August 8, 2013

Gay rights for some or gay rights for all?

For all, of course, and that's why the repeal of NHL player participation in Sochi must be used as a threat to eliminate Russia's anti-gay law.

It's not enough that the NHL promotes equality in its rinks in North America. It must do it world-wide.

NHL players wield the biggest of sticks when it comes to the Winter Olympics and they need to use it to support gay rights -- just like they did in rinks all across North America last winter as part of a campaign to promote You Can Play.

It's You Can Play. Not You Can Play some places but not others.

You Can Play is a foundation whose mission states it is, "dedicated to ensuring equality, respect and safety for all athletes, without regard to sexual orientation... seeks to challenge the culture of locker rooms and spectator areas by focusing only on an athlete's skills, work ethic and competitive spirit."

Russian president Vladimir Putin signed a law last month banning the public discussion of gay rights and relationships anywhere children might hear.

The IOC has defended its presence in Russia for the 2014 Winter Games at Sochi on the basis they have "received assurances from the highest level of government in Russia that the legislation will not affect those attending or taking part in the Games."

But it'll be right back to "shut your mouth about your gayness," as soon as the Olympics are over.

All Out co-founder and executive director Andre Banks says, "Holding the Winter Olympics in Sochi with these laws in place is like holding the Games in Johannesburg at the height of apartheid."

How would the NHL respond if there was a law banning the discussion of rights for Jews or blacks or women? It wouldn't send its players to promote those games and provide those games with its centre-piece attraction, which hockey has become.

The NHL and the NHLPA's views on gay rights are very clear. Both NHL commissioner Gary Bettman and NHLPA executive director Donald Fehr have put the weight of their offices behind You Can Play. Last winter videos were played in NHL arenas featuring league players sharing the foundation's message.

"Our motto is 'Hockey Is For Everyone,' and our partnership with You Can Play certifies that position in a clear and unequivocal way.

"While we believe that our actions in the past have shown our support for the LGBT community, we are delighted to reaffirm through this joint venture with the NHL Players' Association that the official policy of the NHL is one of inclusion on the ice, in our locker rooms and in the stands," offered Bettman.

NHL players are the most high-profile athletes at the Olympics. They can have the most effect. They can say no to Putin's law and force the IOC to apply pressure.

Or they can promote silence. Like Putin wants for gays and their supporters.

Taking a stand will come with risk -- the risk of missing out on a medal. But the reward of helping people be free to live their lives as they choose should be viewed as far greater than any moment of personal glory.
 

Lyke

Junior Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2008
Messages
132
Reaction score
8
Points
18
Gods I love Stephen Fry. QI can't come back fast enough.
 

Oege

Member
Joined
Jun 26, 2013
Messages
166
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Tonka, enjoy your Olympics but... You are right that Jesse Owens won a medail in 1936 but that was it... Hitler won the Olympics not mister Owens. Fact is that in 1936 already people/governments KNEW people were put in concentration camps (mostly jews, gypsy's, gays, communists and others who did not fit in the Nazi ideal world) where many of them were killed (before mass distruction of lives happened at large scale) So the fact that other countries showed up was a victory for Hitler, it proved to him and the Nazi's the other countries just did not care. Same will happen now, if all countries show up Putin's Russia will see (and use) that as THEIR victory .
 

MrMonkey

Member
Joined
May 14, 2013
Messages
3,412
Reaction score
52
Points
48
What about athletes who work hard and wait four years to participate and show their achievements?

Should they be sacrified just to make pointless protest that will change nothing?
 

ihno

Daughter of Deuterium
Joined
Jan 22, 2011
Messages
2,593
Reaction score
13
Points
38
What about athletes who work hard and wait four years to participate and show their achievements?

Should they be sacrified just to make pointless protest that will change nothing?

How melodramatic. But what kind of argument is that? So you think one should accept laws that would qualify as a crime against humanity because of "humanitarian reasons" because some athlethes would miss the games?

That's a strange perspective. It is not the point if protest is "pointless" or not. To say "no" and make it visible is a value in itself. It would not change the law probabaly but it would annoy. For example when Merkel decided not to visit Croatia because of the "Lex Perkovic" it got noticed. At least so I've heard.

I'd love to see more protest, not just against the anti-gay laws in Russia, but also against the US-prison camps and torture.

To just ignore and play "business as usual" is the easiest thing to do of course.

What is the next argument? All those factory workers and their families, who build truncheons, blackjack/saps and baseball bats would lose their jobs if the (russian) Neo-Nazis would not buy them and use them on people who don't fit in their scheme.

Fry didn't suggest to just boykott the games but to stage them elsewhere, so no athlete would be "sacrificed". I would not have suggested Utah (Guantanamo).
 

ihno

Daughter of Deuterium
Joined
Jan 22, 2011
Messages
2,593
Reaction score
13
Points
38
I hope nobody boycotts the games. Go to the games. Have a wonderful gay time. Keep the issue in the spotlight. That will be much more effective.

And get arrested...
http://anonym.to/http://abcnews.go....etes-prosecuted-2014-winter/story?id=19829868
http://anonym.to/http://news.yahoo.com/russia-enforce-anti-gay-law-during-olympics-114212670.html

The first russian seeks for asylum in Canada:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2013/08/11/bc-gay-russian-refugee.html
 

haiducii

Super Vip
Joined
Mar 22, 2010
Messages
55,062
Reaction score
93,207
Points
167
Do not boycott the Olympics – boycott homophobia!

NO to a boycott, YES to holding the games in another country.

60371470554285703283.jpg
 

MrMonkey

Member
Joined
May 14, 2013
Messages
3,412
Reaction score
52
Points
48
How melodramatic. But what kind of argument is that? So you think one should accept laws that would qualify as a crime against humanity because of "humanitarian reasons" because some athlethes would miss the games?

It's not melodramatic - it's realistic. It's so easy to use and ruin other people's lives and career to promote your goal!

Athletes work hard and sacrifice much to achieve Olympic norms!

To destroy that work just to make your political statement is terrible!

You sound like a politician to me. A really bad one :)


If Jesse Owens could bravely look in the face of the Evil in 1936, so can atheletes look in Vladimir Putin's face today!

That's a strange perspective. It is not the point if protest is "pointless" or not. To say "no" and make it visible is a value in itself. It would not change the law probabaly but it would annoy. For example when Merkel decided not to visit Croatia because of the "Lex Perkovic" it got noticed. At least so I've heard.

It's easy to pick on small and weaker countries. Something Jirmeny has a lot of experience with.

I'd love to see more protest, not just against the anti-gay laws in Russia, but also against the US-prison camps and torture.

You should show your solidarity with millions and millions of unemployed young people from Spain and Greece!

There is an old saying that one should first clean his own house, and then look in other houses for mistakes! Europe has too much of it's own problems!

Young people, gay or straight, are unemployed and without perspecitve, while politicians fantasize and chase their "ideals" elsewhere.

To just ignore and play "business as usual" is the easiest thing to do of course.

You do realize how hypocritical this sounds? I suggest that, in sign of protest, next winter Jirmeny refuses Russian gas, Saudi Arabian oil, Chinese cheap labor force etc.

What is the next argument? All those factory workers and their families, who build truncheons, blackjack/saps and baseball bats would lose their jobs if the (russian) Neo-Nazis would not buy them and use them on people who don't fit in their scheme.

And you accuse me of being melodramatic?

Besides we all know where sportswear comes from: "Made in China" for a few dollars a day. You're not worried with that kind of exploitment?

Fry didn't suggest to just boykott the games but to stage them elsewhere, so no athlete would be "sacrificed". I would not have suggested Utah (Guantanamo).

So you would limit the Olypmics to few countries that fit your standards model and leave the vast majority of Planet's population outside?

Hmmm maybe we should build a wall to separate us from those barbarians and cannibals? Just in case they decide to poison us with their backward ideas... That was melodramatic!

In the interest of promotion of sports it is necessary to have Olympics and other big sport events in different countries!

Your country's foreign minister Guido Westerwelle, who is openly gay, said:

"We want to promote tolerance in the world. But we also do not want to achieve the opposite by acting thoughtlessly."

Agressive approach never works with that kind of things.


In one interview Fry accused Polish people for being antisemitic during WWII! Later when he realised how stupid that statement was had to applogize:

"I offer no excuse. I seemed to imply that the Polish people had been responsible for the most infamous of all the death factories of the Third Reich. I didn't even really at the time notice the import of what I had said, so gave myself no opportunity instantly to retract the statement.
It was a rubbishy, cheap and offensive remark that I have been regretting ever since. I take this opportunity to apologise now.
I said a stupid, thoughtless and fatuous thing. It detracted from and devalued my argument, such as it was, and it outraged and offended a large group of people for no very good reason.
I am sorry in all directions, and all the more sorry because it is no one's fault but my own, which always makes it so much worse."


Fry is making a self-promotion and trying to save a little career he has left. Something actors at the end of their career often do.

At least he didn't publish a home video. I'm grateful for that.
 

ihno

Daughter of Deuterium
Joined
Jan 22, 2011
Messages
2,593
Reaction score
13
Points
38
It's not melodramatic - it's realistic. It's so easy to use and ruin other people's lives and career to promote your goal!

Athletes work hard and sacrifice much to achieve Olympic norms!

To destroy that work just to make your political statement is terrible!

You sound like a politician to me. A really bad one :)
[/COLOR]

Did you even my post? I didn't say I was for a boykott. I know exactly what I say, so stick with it please and write your red lines to people, that are concerned by them.

If Jesse Owens could bravely look in the face of the Evil in 1936, so can atheletes look in Vladimir Putin's face today!

Visitors and athlethes are in danger of getting arresting for *being gay* while being in Russia then.

It's easy to pick on small and weaker countries. Something Jirmeny has a lot of experience with.

Oh, now I'm being lectured because I'm german?

Sorry, won't sing that tune and haven't read much further.
 

MrMonkey

Member
Joined
May 14, 2013
Messages
3,412
Reaction score
52
Points
48
Visitors and athlethes are in danger of getting arresting for *being gay* while being in Russia then.

So was Jesse Owen.

Oh, now I'm being lectured because I'm german?

That's your interpretation. I never mentioned your name, or you individally. I was merely stating historical facts.

Sorry, won't sing that tune and haven't read much further.

Obviously you're not a debate type of guy.

I believe I'm entitled to my own opinion, as long as I'm within some bounds of decency and yet provocative till certain limits.

It's called a forum for a reason. :)
 

ihno

Daughter of Deuterium
Joined
Jan 22, 2011
Messages
2,593
Reaction score
13
Points
38
So was Jesse Owen.

No, he was not. If you have proof that Jesse Owen was endangered to be arrested by german autorities or branches of the NSDAP because of his so called "racial background" while being in Germany in 1936, I'm eager to see it.

That's your interpretation. I never mentioned your name, or you individally. I was merely stating historical facts.

I understood quite well. That rant was rather obvious.

Obviously you're not a debate type of guy.

Not that type of discussion. No.

I believe I'm entitled to my own opinion, as long as I'm within some bounds of decency and yet provocative till certain limits.

It's called a forum for a reason. :)

Yes, a forum and not the youtube-comment-section.
 
Last edited:

gb2000ie

Super Vip
Joined
Dec 19, 2010
Messages
4,529
Reaction score
325
Points
0
What about athletes who work hard and wait four years to participate and show their achievements?

Should they be sacrified just to make pointless protest that will change nothing?

Fry's letter asks to MOVE the Olympics, not cancel them, so your point in moot.

B.
 

MrMonkey

Member
Joined
May 14, 2013
Messages
3,412
Reaction score
52
Points
48
Fry's letter asks to MOVE the Olympics, not cancel them, so your point in moot.

B.

Moving Olympics less then a year before they begin is the same as canceling them.

If only one athlete loses his chance to participate or set a new record in his discipline, then my point is right!

Besides, we all know that Olympics will be held in Sochi, and this arguing will make no difference.

Unfortunately.
 
Last edited:

ritsuka

V.I.P Member
Joined
Nov 8, 2008
Messages
546
Reaction score
33
Points
28
The Olympics is all about corporate cash, it brings police repression, gentrification, and steals huge amounts of public money in every host city. It isn't a beacon of human rights, it's a nationalist pissing contest sponsored by Pepsi. It would be best to not have them in countries like Russia, The US, or China, but all these roving games that wreak havoc on the local communities they visit should be either disbanded or grounded in one place permanently.
 
Last edited:

Oege

Member
Joined
Jun 26, 2013
Messages
166
Reaction score
0
Points
0
MrMonkey said:
What about athletes who work hard and wait four years to participate and show their achievements?

Should they be sacrified just to make pointless protest that will change nothing?

Follow me back to 1980 the Olypics in Russia (...) USA and most NATO members boycotted those games because Russia invaded Afghanistan to fight the Taliban (who by the way were supported by USA in those days...).

Nobody cared about the athletes back then, or did they? Uhm... no

Please note this is not about the taliban or current war in Afghanistan, unfortunatly my country is involved in that endless war too, but it is about human rights.

NO OFFER can be too big to support human rights so if it means athletes have to stay home I am very sorry for them...

And yes I surely will miss the ORANGE parties but I will not cheer for my countries athletes should they show up in Sochi in our national colour ORANGE, maybe just maybe a little cheer if they replace our RED WHITE and BLUE flag for the RAINBOW flag...
 
Top