Aurora Colorado Movie theater Shooting 12 Dead.

[tonka]

Apparently he was seeing a psychiatrist. He had access to care.

America has not done a good job with mental health services. Most insurers limit the number of talk sessions per year (12 on my coverage), and push people to drug solutions.

Obamacare care will help. It mandates that all illnesses be given equal status. This will steer some resources to both mental health and drug addiction.

My father's family has had lots of issues. Mental health care is still one part science, one part voodoo, one part love and hope. I hope it will get better.

I'm one of the sane ones in the family. Just a little crazy!

 

[Sinnerr]

Main fault is total lack of guns controling. Lot of Americans think that possibility to own a gun is everyones essential right. I think its bullshit. I'm glad I live in country where is thorough guns controll.

of interst here is fragment of law with health requires for gun licence owners in Czech Republic:

 PART II


Diseases that prevent or restrict the medical fitness of the issue or gun license categories C, D, E and F

Section 1

Diseases that excluded medical fitness

1st organic mental disorders, including symptomatic disorders except postencefalitic syndrome

2nd mental and behavioral disorders due to ingestion of psychoactive substances (except for isolated uncomplicated acute intoxication)

3rd schizophrenia, schizotypal disorder and delusional disorders,

4th mental retardation,

5th systemic atrophy primarily affecting central nervous system,

6th extrapyramidal and movement disorders,

7th degenerative diseases of the nervous system not included above

8th epilepsy, epileptic syndromes, cataplexy,

9th reduction of visual acuity below 6/12 in each eye separately after correction

10th preventing hearing loss colloquial speech communication at a distance of less than 6 meters

11th diseases accompanied by disturbances of the inner ear balance.

Section 2

Diseases that reduce medical fitness

1st postencefalitic syndrome

2nd mental and behavioral disorders - see Part I, Section 2, item 2,

3rd organic disease with psychopathological symptomatology,

4th reduced level of intellect,

5th diseases of the nervous system:

a) demyelinating diseases of the central nervous system,

b) disease, which positively exclude or limit the safe gun handling and handling of weapons and ammunition - disease of the nerves, nerve roots and knitting - other illness polyneuropathy and peripheral nervous system,

c) epilepsy, epileptic syndromes and epileptic seizure status after they have been deployed anti-epileptic medication, 10 years after discontinuation of treatment,

6th diseases of the eye and adnexa:

a) other diseases of the eye and adnexa, which admittedly limited gun control and safe handling of weapons and ammunition,

b) a reduction in visual acuity of less than the reduction of visual acuity in Section 1, the single-eyed is permitted if the remaining eye, visual acuity was 6/6 with correction,

7th diseases of ear and mastoid process:

a) hearing loss,

b) other ear disease, which limit the safe gun handling and handling of weapons and ammunition. Note: In doubtful cases, the need for detailed audiological and vestibular examinations

8th Diseases of the musculoskeletal system and connective tissue affecting the upper limb function, endocrine and metabolic and other diseases that unequivocally exclude or limit the safe gun handling and handling of weapons and ammunition.

except this, if you want to have a gun you have to have clean criminal record. Often fines like traffic violation would be also problem. Gun licence is for 5 years. Within renewation you would be checked again.

 

[tonka]

I agree with you, Sinner.
But our constitution has a "right to bear arms" clause. How much regulation is allowed has been a legal and political issue for a long time; but the right will remain.

One thing that may be lost in all this is that gun ownership, and violence in general, has been going down in the states. It's at an all time low. It's double the rate of other advanced societies, but lower than in the past.

 

[gb2000ie]

I agree with you, Sinner.
But our constitution has a "right to bear arms" clause. How much regulation is allowed has been a legal and political issue for a long time; but the right will remain.

Actually - that's not strictly true - the constitution grants the right to form WELL REGULATED militias.

That is not the same as private people being allowed to have their own infinite arsenals!

Even this current extreme right supreme court has upheld the right of government to regulate arms.

The simple fact is that there is PLENTY of scope to tighten up the rules without breaching the constitution. The problem is the NRA have succeeded into terrorising congress into pretending there is nothing that can be done!

One thing that may be lost in all this is that gun ownership, and violence in general, has been going down in the states. It's at an all time low. It's double the rate of other advanced societies, but lower than in the past.

It's definitely good that things are getting less shitty, but that's no reason to stop pushing for change, like you say, still double the next worst 'advanced' society.

B.

 

[tonka]

Can an Irishman join the U S Supreme Court? Let's nominate GB!

Justice Scalia is making the rounds this week promoting a book. He said the second amendment would probably allow the banning of cannons ( since they are too heavy to bear), but was uncertain about a hand held rocket launcher, capable of taking down a plane.

 

[garth33]

GB...it's a bit of a conundrum. I'm politically liberal but support gun rights in the US - mainly because if some of these right wing gun nuts rule the world someday - I need to defend myself!

It's not a joke...I have several rifles and shotguns but I also grew up shooting recreationally and hunting so they're not EVIL WEAPONS but just tools I use occasionally because of where I live. I draw the line at automatic weapons...no one needs THAT MUCH firepower but my main point is guns themselves are not evil....what people do with them may be - as we've seen.

PEACE!
g33

 

[brmstn69]

I've remained silent on this as almost everyone here knows that I'm a gun advocate. I only speak now to point out that while everyone here is talking about gun control, something else has been overlooked entirely.

I will start by saying that although I am pro gun, being able to purchase firearms and ammunition via mail order or online needs to stopped. Ammo should be as tightly regulated as the guns themselves. Everyone that has passed a background check to purchase firearms should be issued a permit to purchase ammo. And such purchases should only be allowed in person with a licensed firearms dealer. No mail order or internet sales.

Now to what really bothers me about this story. While it was horrible, it could have been much worse. He had built IED's powerful enough to take down the entire apartment building. If it had be detonated the body count would have been tremendous. And while everyone is talking about the guns, what I find frightening is the fact that a student was able to use his school credentials to purchase the materials to make said devices. Where's the outrage over that?

While I'm on the subject, I currently have a dilemma...
My ex has been living in Texas and also owns several guns. He also has a young son here in Indiana, and because he cannot stand being so far away any longer, in two days he will be moving back in with me. As I've never had children in my house, I've never had to worry much about keeping the guns away from them. Most are in the closet and dresser or nightstand drawers. But since his son will be spending some weekends here, I though something should be done about it...

So I went shopping today and bought some barrel locks for the drawers as well as two digital keypad dead bolts that will automatically engage when the door is closed, one for my bedroom door (which will be strictly off limits to the kid) and one for his bedroom or closet which ever he chooses.

Do you all think that will be sufficient?

 

[gb2000ie]

GB...it's a bit of a conundrum. I'm politically liberal but support gun rights in the US - mainly because if some of these right wing gun nuts rule the world someday - I need to defend myself!

It's not a joke...I have several rifles and shotguns but I also grew up shooting recreationally and hunting so they're not EVIL WEAPONS but just tools I use occasionally because of where I live. I draw the line at automatic weapons...no one needs THAT MUCH firepower but my main point is guns themselves are not evil....what people do with them may be - as we've seen.

PEACE!
g33

I think you represent the majority of US gun owners. Sane, sensible people who believe in an out-doors way of life that includes guns as tools. You believe strongly in the second amendment, but you also believe in sensible controls on guns.

Given your stance on machine guns, I'm guessing you would also be in favour of closing the loopholes around gun shows, and keeping guns out of the hands of convicted criminals and the mentally ill?

The NRA claims to speak for people like you, but they don't go around expressing sane views like yours, instead, they go off spouting conspiracy theory nonsense (you know Obama is coming for your guns because he hasn't come for your guns), and bullying politicians into rejecting ALL restrictions on guns.

I don't understand why the rank-and-file NRA members don't vote out the nuts that run the organisation? American is being held hostage by the NRA, and it's making all meaningful discussions about guns in the halls of power impossible

The big question for me is why Canada has even more guns than the US, and yet much less gun violence? They seem to have managed to preserve the kinds of gun rights you are in favour of, without things getting nutty.

B.

 

[gb2000ie]

I will start by saying that although I am pro gun, being able to purchase firearms and ammunition via mail order or online needs to stopped. Ammo should be as tightly regulated as the guns themselves. Everyone that has passed a background check to purchase firearms should be issued a permit to purchase ammo. And such purchases should only be allowed in person with a licensed firearms dealer. No mail order or internet sales.

There should be more people like you high up in the NRA!

Now to what really bothers me about this story. While it was horrible, it could have been much worse. He had built IED's powerful enough to take down the entire apartment building. If it had be detonated the body count would have been tremendous. And while everyone is talking about the guns, what I find frightening is the fact that a student was able to use his school credentials to purchase the materials to make said devices. Where's the outrage over that?

I think the obvious difference is that the IEDs are already illegal, but he was able to legally purchase an absolute arsenal without it even getting flagged as suspicious, let alone stopped.

If the IEDs were legal, they would be getting as much attention I'm sure.

B.

 

[tonka]

I'm glad we have some gun guys in this conversation. I'm pretty clueless about it.

I'm sure you guys hate the annual mass murder rampage we've been having for a while now. What kind of restrictions could really help? After all, it's not if another one will happen, just when.

Hunting rifles seem to be a great hunting tool, but not really good for murder. Assualt weapons...just the opposite.
How about handguns. They can be concealed; they kill a lot of people. They seem to be involved in a lot of accidental shootings. Is that somethinhg you guys feel you need?

 

[Sinnerr]

Garth: It's childsh. Country should have effective legislative, system of justice courts, police. Thats countrys power to keep territory safe. Legislative makes law which prohibite dangerous behavior. Justice locks individuals which doesnt respec law to prison. And police is their hand in the streets.
If everyone would have your attitude you could cancel modern state and establish anarchy. Everyone cares about himself only, believes no one other. Mayor, Judge and Cherif in one person could be man who has biggest gun in neighborhood.

 

[bigsal]

I followed this thread with great interest.

I found the arguments of gb2000ie highly lucid and balanced, I agree totally.

Unfortunately over the years, the American chronicles are full of these sad episodes.

Obviously my thoughts are with the relatives of the victims, who have been deprived of the most precious of the earth, the lives of their loved ones, victims of the large business of American weapons also.

 

[tonka]

The large business of weapons, indeed. And not just American. The world has a great appetite for elegant European guns as well.

Last year, over a million guns were imported from Europe to America.