Christians ‘Must Be Willing to Die’ to Stop Gay Marriage

[W!nston]

I think the headline for this article is self-explanatory. No further comment necessary.

HGTV's Booted Benham Brothers Say Christians ‘Must Be Willing to Die’ to Stop Gay Marriage
The Wrap |By Greg Gilman | 12:39pm July 3 2014



David and Jason Benham — the twin “Flip It Forward” hosts HGTV parted ways with in May after discovering their anti-gay views — are rallying Christians to step up the fight against gay marriage, and went as far as to say those dedicated to the cause must be “willing to die” for it.

“If people remain silent, then it's gonna to continue to get worse. But when folks step up, and speak boldly the truth, then it can actually be pushed back …You have to be willing to die,” David said during an interview with the Christian Post (above). “I mean Jason and I had to be willing to lose our show. We had to be willing to lose a book deal, I mean whatever it may be – endorsements. We had to be willing to lose it all.”

The Benham brothers, whose father is controversial evangelical minister Flip Benham, were interviewed ahead of a speaking engagement at the Faith & Freedom Coalition's Road to Majority Conference in June.
“We have to be willing to let go of what we have, whether it's a job, an elected position, a big ‘ole church, whatever it may be,” David added. “We have to be willing to let it go, and when that happens, then absolutely we're back on the right track in America.”

The real estate experts’ reality series, “Flip It Forward,” was scheduled to premiere in October, but HGTV decided not to pursue it after facing backlash from viewers who discovered the Benham's strong views on marriage, abortion and divorce.
“If our faith costs us a television show then so be it,” the brothers said in a statement in response to HGTV's decision to pull the plug on their show.

David previously said he and his brother “love homosexuals,” and that “there's a difference between the people and the agenda.”
“The real issue at hand here is there is an agenda that seeks to silence men and women of faith who, if we want to voice our beliefs or voice our views, then we shouldn't be afraid of losing our livelihood,” David said in May during an interview on CNN's “Erin Burnett OutFront.”

 

[theseeker]

Funny... weren't they supposed to be the same people who preaches love and respect for your fellow people? So when it comes to homosexuals, they go "eh fuck it, kill 'em all! die if we have to!"? So how exactly is this different from Muslim extremists (keyword: extremists) in Afgan hating and killing Americans?

Look, I'm not hating on religion. And I get that, for some or actually a lot of people, homosexuality is a really difficult topic to wrap their heads around, and they still can't accept it (to a certain extent I'm still trying to fully accept it). And that's fine, so long as you don't push your beliefs onto others. What I don' get is that for a country that emphasizes SO MUCH on free speech and free will, yet there are large swathes of people constantly trying to limit/destroy other people's personal rights.

 

[Dendood]

Limit, subjugate, destroy other people. That has been the case for 90% of human history. Including a huge swath of our own history. Recent decades included.

Actually in a way what they are saying makes sense. At least to their mindset. Much of what they believe is based on slim evidence to none. So the problem with gay marriage is this: If they have to unravel their belief system enough to accept gay marriage, how much of it would unravel now that the unraveling has begun??? There's so little ground to stand on, they would risk seeing their entire philosophy tank. Which is why science has been such a thorn in their sides. The idea of an earth forming over billions of years, evolution and extinctions, none it jibes with the literal 'written word of god.' So to protect it from the unraveling, they resort to calling evolution a lie, or man and dinosaurs overlapping.

Pull a thread here. Pull a thread there. They lack the sophistication for taking a scalpel to their belief system. So the easier thing is to lay down a hard perimeter and fight to the death. All or nothing. It is all about fear and power. When one fears power slipping, that's the moment human instinct says to strike out out of fear.

Faith is all that is needed for lies to become truth.

 

[gorgik9]

As a very secular European, the only thing for me to say is : Why is America getting nuttier, nuttier and nuttier???

I mean if you elect a "born again" evangelical nutcase (called George W) FOR PRESIDENT !!!! you're accepting a certain level of nuttery as normal.

And no, I don't "hate americans". It's just scary. And sad.

 

[W!nston]

All polling data concerning religion show the vast majority of Americans are not nut-job religious fanatics. Most Americans are ambivalent toward religion. A large number classify themselves as agnostic.

The problem in America is apathy. No one wants to 'rock the boat' as long as they are not in the crosshairs of the 'bully pulpit' fascists. If people would stop drinking the dogmatic mob logic and think about the future and the consequences the words and actions of religious monsters of all faiths for society then vote accordingly to restrict them America would be better off.

 

[Shelter]

As a very secular European, the only thing for me to say is : Why is America getting nuttier, nuttier and nuttier???

I mean if you elect a "born again" evangelical nutcase (called George W) FOR PRESIDENT !!!! you're accepting a certain level of nuttery as normal.

And no, I don't "hate americans". It's just scary. And sad.

Gorgik9 why you always find the real words? p
I have many friends in the USA gays and straights - but nevertheless it is THAT country with the most fundamental so called christs in the world. The most rural Americans are more fundamental than the pope itself

 

[gorgik9]

All polling data concerning religion show the vast majority of Americans are not nut-job religious fanatics. Most Americans are ambivalent toward religion. A large number classify themselves as agnostic.

The problem in America is apathy. No one wants to 'rock the boat' as long as they are not in the crosshairs of the 'bully pulpit' fascists. If people would stop drinking the dogmatic mob logic and think about the future and the consequences the words and actions of religious monsters of all faiths for society then vote accordingly to restrict them America would be better off.

My friend, I think you're most probably right - but yet at the same time very wrong...
Discussing on the level of individuals - say: what percentage of the american population would be religious nutters - is not sufficient. We'll have to look at institutional frameworks of american society, and you yourself, Sniffit, have written a brilliant post in another thread on the "special rights" of organized religion when it comes to taxation, which means the immense wealth of american churches, immense amounts of televangelism and fundamentalist "universities". Which means the immense disproportion of the ordinary grass root level americans opinions and the fundamentalist medias possibility to influence american society and politics. And this is just one kind of institutional framework that must be scrutinized...

 

[gb2000ie]

I think these people need to spend more time reading their bible and less time spreading hate. The simple fact is that they can't justify their un-Christian behaviour scripturally. Using a religion of love to justify hate and violence is pretty darn perverse!

B.

 

[bigsal]

The Gospel speaks of love (let us not forget, however, that it was written by 4 people who have not lived with Jesus).

The Bible on the other hand is atrocious and full of hate, starting with the fratricide of Cain, the Flood (it is possible that the only good they were at that time Noah is his family?), The plagues of Egypt where the children Egyptians was exterminated (who sins can never have of childrens) etc etc. ..

If a balanced person reads the Bible, it can only shudder and stop believing.

You have to remember that for centuries is served to intimidate and subdue, more generations.

But unfortunately for them, scientific studies have demolished almost all them certainties, with evidence and research. Then the decrease of people ignorant, is doing the rest.

However, despite what, the religion is a hard core from break down, this because there is no dull worst of what you do not want to hear.

 

[W!nston]

Even Marx was a 'believer' despite his often quoted analogy:

"...religion is the opiate of the masses..."

Karl Marx on Religion
Is Religion the Opiate of the Masses?

This quote is reproduced a great deal and is probably the only Marx quote that most people are familiar with. Unfortunately, if someone is familiar with it they are likely only familiar with a small portion that, taken by itself, tends to give a distorted impression of what Marx had to say about religion.

Religious distress is at the same time the expression of real distress and the protest against real distress. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. It is the opium of the people. The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions.
Karl Marx, Critique of Hegel’s Philosophy of Right

 

[tonka]

As Sal says " The gospel speaks of love".
That's not just about gay people... but poor people, brown people, lots of people.

I'm not a Christian, but the lack of empathy is striking. What would Jesus say? You failed the test of kindness, failed the test of love.

So we must understand it has nothing to do with Jesus. If you want to look at someone trying to bridge conservative thinking and Jesus...look to our new Pope. You can criticize his stances, but he respects Jesus, and what he taught.

So what is it about? Fear, I think. Fear that traditional norms are fading. Fear that traditional jobs are vanishing.

The world is changing fast. It's a whirlwind. You Europeans are shocked at America's reaction? We are more free wheeling than you. But the far right in Europe is the same fear, just a different context.

 

[dargelos]

We had a devout christian stay in our house a few months, this was someone who really did know the bible inside out.
He told me that the bible has very little to say about homosexuality, and all of that is open to many differant interpretations.
In contrast, the good book has a lot to say about usury, and it says it without room for alternative explanations. So how many fine churchgoers are picketing Bain Capital or JP Morgan and its kind of money grabbing exploiters? Maybe they read a special redacted version of the bible. More likely they see the things they want to see and don't see what they don't want to see.
edit:
Now I've seen the bros site. They made many fast bucks house flipping, that is buying property for less than its worth and selling it for more. And they are proud of that? Speculation is effectively usury, its using your money to take advantage of less fortunate souls. We will never know what Jesus thought about gay marrige, he never spoke on the subject.
We do know Jesus' views about those who worship mammon, people like the Benham boys.

 

[tonka]

We had a devout christian stay in our house a few months, this was someone who really did know the bible inside out.
He told me that the bible has very little to say about homosexuality, and all of that is open to many differant interpretations.
In contrast, the good book has a lot to say about usury, and it says it without room for alternative explanations. So how many fine churchgoers are picketing Bain Capital or JP Morgan and its kind of money grabbing exploiters? Maybe they read a special redacted version of the bible. More likely they see the things they want to see and don't see what they don't want to see.

I just have to laugh at Bain Capital.
They owned my company for a while. My company has been bought and sold every 4 years or so. Some better. Some worse.
The worst? The clueless? Bain, by far.

 

[theseeker]

The Gospel speaks of love (let us not forget, however, that it was written by 4 people who have not lived with Jesus).

The Bible on the other hand is atrocious and full of hate, starting with the fratricide of Cain, the Flood (it is possible that the only good they were at that time Noah is his family?), The plagues of Egypt where the children Egyptians was exterminated (who sins can never have of childrens) etc etc. ..

If a balanced person reads the Bible, it can only shudder and stop believing.

This, this is something I do not get! I'm an agnostic, so when people say that they subscribe to a religion, that's fine, they're just different versions/viewpoints of the same thing IMO. But then they start following the bible word for word, it gets me thinking, did God write the bible? No! Heck, even Jesus didn't contribute to the bible personally. The two people/entities who could lend the book at least a bit of credibility didn't write it! Instead, it's a bunch of people who THINK they know better wrote it. That's like a stranger who just attends the lectures of a famous professor, then wrote an entire book about the professor's thoughts/teachings without his consultation/approval, then calling it his autobiography!

So you say you have faith in your god, his teachings, that's fine, whatever. But realize that whatever the bible says may not be true, because it's not direct from source, and even news reports misquotes people from time to time.

 

[Shelter]

I have just heard from a "friend" of Amnerica the following:
"The Bible tells from Adam and Eve and not from Adam and Steve"
and that is his and not only his confession of faith. But so what........?!
I'm gay and I love it to be and what will happen? The world will too further turn around and around. And in 10, 100 or 1000 years gays will on this earth!

 

[slimjim]

Well I've posted this before...but that's no reason not to post it again. A fine piece of sassy dialogue from the pen of the excellent Aaron Sorkin, the good stuff starts about 2:30



:thumbs up::thumbs up::thumbs up::thumbs up::thumbs up::thumbs up::thumbs up:

 

[dargelos]

The popular biblical quote in the film clip does not actualy call homosexuality an abomination.
"Thou shalt not lie with a man as with a woman, it is an abomination" is open to interpretation.
I have never lain with a man as with a woman, why would I do that, I lie with a man as a man. Men do sleep with men as with a woman when there are no women available such as onboard ship or in prison, when man to man sex is a loveless substitute in which one of the men is assumed to used as an ersatz woman, possibly against his will. That is what I think the bible is condemning in that passage.
Old Testament marriage makes a big deal about the balance of power between men and woman. A mans wife becomes his property along with his sheep and goats, she must obey him along with his slaves. There is no concept in OT terms of the modern ideal of a partnership of equals. A partnership of two men as two equals is something the bible never calls an abomination because the question never arises.

 

[bigsal]

This, this is something I do not get! I'm an agnostic, so when people say that they subscribe to a religion, that's fine, they're just different versions/viewpoints of the same thing IMO. But then they start following the bible word for word, it gets me thinking, did God write the bible? No! Heck, even Jesus didn't contribute to the bible personally. The two people/entities who could lend the book at least a bit of credibility didn't write it! Instead, it's a bunch of people who THINK they know better wrote it. That's like a stranger who just attends the lectures of a famous professor, then wrote an entire book about the professor's thoughts/teachings without his consultation/approval, then calling it his autobiography!

So you say you have faith in your god, his teachings, that's fine, whatever. But realize that whatever the bible says may not be true, because it's not direct from source, and even news reports misquotes people from time to time.

Or I explained badly or you did not understand what I wrote (but it can be the fault of google translator, because those who know me, know that I do not speak English).

Who followed me so far, you know without a shadow of a doubt that I am agnostic.

However, I know very well the Christian religion, especially that Catholic, because I've lived there up to fifteen years (for two days I was also in seminary).

Since then I have "fed" of knowledge, and most importantly I began to see with my own eyes and think with my mind, while before I lived subdued by dogmas and by hypocrisies (if not worse).

In my message I have put beforehand that the Gospel was written by the four "so called" Evangelists (Mark, Luke, Matthew and John). None of these has lived with Jesus, so even as the accuracy of the content of the New Testament (the Gospel) is to be demonstrated.

Over the years I have read a lot about religions, not just monotheistic, and I found interesting things.

I could tell you many things but not enough all pages of the forum to contain them. One thing I can say. In the course of the last two millennia, the church and the clergy, have done away and destroyed books and important doents that told the life of Jesus in a completely different way to the one told by the "sacred texts" as we know them today.
So many people have lost their lives because were found in possession of those books and doents.

Is a complex subject and I hope that the virtual translation has not distorted the meaning of my words

 

[bigsal]

The popular biblical quote in the film clip does not actualy call homosexuality an abomination.
"Thou shalt not lie with a man as with a woman, it is an abomination" is open to interpretation.
I have never lain with a man as with a woman, why would I do that, I lie with a man as a man. Men do sleep with men as with a woman when there are no women available such as onboard ship or in prison, when man to man sex is a loveless substitute in which one of the men is assumed to used as an ersatz woman, possibly against his will. That is what I think the bible is condemning in that passage.
Old Testament marriage makes a big deal about the balance of power between men and woman. A mans wife becomes his property along with his sheep and goats, she must obey him along with his slaves. There is no concept in OT terms of the modern ideal of a partnership of equals. A partnership of two men as two equals is something the bible never calls an abomination because the question never arises.

Many people often quote the Bible without ever having read it. Then when you go into the merits of their statements, or they change the subject or accuse you of being blasphemous, but never without a concrete answer.
Hypocrites.

 

[dargelos]

Bigsal I am impressed at how well you get your meaning across in spite of the clumsy google translate not choosing the exact word you wanted. You and others here say agnostic rather than atheist. The former does not firmly believe in god, the latter firmly believes in the non existence of god. I believe in god as a construct, something that has a firm existence in human minds and absolutely no existence in reality. When we watch the Simpsons we know it's only a cartoon yet Homer Marge Bart and Lisa have a reality in our heads.
What we need is someone with conventional religious views to stop this discussion from getting one sided but I guess those types don't join gay porn groups do they?