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Conservatives Cruising for Gay Sex at CPAC

Tjerk12

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Is it not a fact that everything has to do with the concept of freedom? We believe that we have the freedom to be who we are. But what if someone takes the freedom to be what he is not and wants to hide his individuality? Than we call that hypocritical. Undoubtedly a correct description, but can we deny him the right to be a hypocrite? I don’t think so; because with affecting someone else’s freedom we affect the foundation of the concept of freedom end thus endanger our own freedom.
Are we not all in any way hypocritical? Makeup, hair dye and convenient chosen clothes that happen to let you show slimmer, are disguises.
However, if another want to restrict your freedom than do you have as defense the right to expose the true nature of your opponent.
 
I

iSlut

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Tjerk12, you're effectively saying you want people to have the freedom to attempt to deny our freedom.

Conservatives are strongly against gay freedom and rights. They're not just saying they're against gay rights. They're trying to deny gay people their freedom. They work very hard at that and raise a lot of money to do so.

There's a big difference between freedom of speech and trying to deny someone's else's freedom.

Marching down the street carrying Nazi signs is allowed under freedom of speech. Voting Nazis into office and allowing them to deny rights to other people is not freedom.

It's tyranny.


However, if another want to restrict your freedom than do you have as defense the right to expose the true nature of your opponent.

Absolutely.
 

Tjerk12

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Tjerk12, you're effectively saying you want people to have the freedom to attempt to deny our freedom.

No that is not what I meant to say.
The statement I made is rather difficult and maybe the limitations in my English make it impossible to explain the nuance properly. So I will give it another try.
I live in the countryside. It is a very conservative region. Within three km there is a town where no Gas station or Restaurant is allowed to be opened at Sunday.
I am acquainted with some of these conservatives. The ones I know live strictly to the Bible and things as homosexuality and sex before marriage are work of the devil. Still their disapproval does not lead to any obligation for me. They respect me the way I am. Missionary times are over for them. For two of them I am rather sure that they think “what a nice guy, it is a pity that he will not make it to heaven”.
But suppose the case that I would find out that one of the two is a hidden homosexual, would that be a reason to condemn him, because he is a hypocrite? Shouldn’t I have to respect his privacy, his choice to practice it secretly? It is his moral problem, not mine.
I am pretty sure that between all conservatives there are a lot who don’t think as limited as the ones who cry loudly on the front row. By dividing a society so strictly in two different camps, the good ones can feel obliged to cry too, to be taken seriously by the leaders.
 
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iSlut

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The ones I know live strictly to the Bible and things as homosexuality and sex before marriage are work of the devil. Still their disapproval does not lead to any obligation for me. They respect me the way I am.

Thanks for your follow up.

The situation you're describing is different than what's happening in the US. They leave you alone; you leave them alone. That's fine.

In the US, within the conservative political movement, a significant majority favors denying basic rights to gay people. CPAC is a gathering of the "Conservative Political Action Committee" which raises money to draft and support anti-gay legislation. They give a lot of money to anti-gay politicians.

US conservatives want to deny gays the right to marry, for gays to teach, to adopt children, and many more fundamental rights. They want to make employment discrimination against gay people legal. They also want to block gays in the military. Many of them would like to make any gay activity outright illegal -- they would like to see gays prosecuted and sent to jail simply for being gay. Some, for example, want a return of anti-sodomy laws.

So here you have people who are (1) meeting to devise ways to deny fundamental rights to gay people and (2) part of the same group is gay themselves and sneaking off at night for anonymous gay sex.

It is the worst form of hypocrisy. It's as bad as Jews voting in favor of antisemitism or Blacks voting in favor of racial discrimination.

It's persecuted people voting for their own persecution.
 

Tjerk12

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When things are really that bad it gives us the right to replace respect by defensive action (as I mentioned). I have some skill in visualizing thoughts. Maybe the following flyer describes the situation:

cpac.jpg
[/URL][/IMG]
 

gb2000ie

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US conservatism is full of mind-bending inconsistencies.

They want small government and government out of their lives but propose laws that force doctors to read women government written scripts with un-truths in them when they want to seek a legal medical procedure, or force them to take a medically unnecessary test before a legal medical procedure. They also seek laws to outlaw many forms of birth control and effectively have the government managing women's uteruses.

They want small government, and freedom, but not for gay people or Muslims. They want freedom of religion, and, they want to legislate their religion into law.

And, they claim to be Christian, but insult Obama for pointing out that Jesus preached a lot about looking after the poor, and wasn't so big on greed and riches. They claim to be Christian, but want to see only the rich get medical care. They claim to be Christian, but feel that the rich should be taxed at a lower rate than the poor.

And finally, they claim they have "family values", while sleeping with whores of all genders, cheating on their wives, and lying about it all till they have no choice.

I have no idea whether or not those ads were real, as others have said, they could be faked, but really, you don't need those ads to see the hypocrisy of the holier than thou American conservative movement writ-large!

B.
 

HotDougBunz

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US conservatism is full of mind-bending inconsistencies.

They want small government and government out of their lives but propose laws that force doctors to read women government written scripts with un-truths in them when they want to seek a legal medical procedure, or force them to take a medically unnecessary test before a legal medical procedure. They also seek laws to outlaw many forms of birth control and effectively have the government managing women's uteruses.

They want small government, and freedom, but not for gay people or Muslims. They want freedom of religion, and, they want to legislate their religion into law.

And, they claim to be Christian, but insult Obama for pointing out that Jesus preached a lot about looking after the poor, and wasn't so big on greed and riches. They claim to be Christian, but want to see only the rich get medical care. They claim to be Christian, but feel that the rich should be taxed at a lower rate than the poor.

And finally, they claim they have "family values", while sleeping with whores of all genders, cheating on their wives, and lying about it all till they have no choice.

I have no idea whether or not those ads were real, as others have said, they could be faked, but really, you don't need those ads to see the hypocrisy of the holier than thou American conservative movement writ-large!

B.

Very well stated! Conservative=Contradiction in American't. I face this on a daily level with my family who are very right-wing.

Conservatives will spend a fortune for constitutional amendments preventing gay marriage because they feel it is mocking a sacred institution. Yet they are comfortable with TV shows where marriage is a prize in a game show!

More directly to the topic here regardless if these are fake it that I have traveled to every state in the US and have noted (unofficial survey) that the most traditionally Republican states have a prolific number of sex oriented business such as strip clubs, adult book stores and bath houses. It really makes you think they are very guilt ridden about their sexual expression.
 

gregsanison

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These Conservative zealots who keep going and on and on about morals prove one thing. The more a person protests they more they have something to hide.

Just come out you Conservatives and admit the truthL You are Proud to be Gay! :heart:

That Rick 'Sanotorium' is obviously a former twink. Mitt Romney is Pantheon material. As for Michelle Bachmann oh dear oh dear where do we start with that one, eh?

When she was a kid she cried at the Wizard of Oz when the witch died! She probably make an inner vow to avenge her death! Her campaign imploded.

The Republicans are so out of their depth that the British Tories here want an Obama re-election. The only time I have agreed with Tories"
 

gb2000ie

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Conservatives will spend a fortune for constitutional amendments preventing gay marriage because they feel it is mocking a sacred institution. Yet they are comfortable with TV shows where marriage is a prize in a game show!

An excellent point!

Also, does anyone else think it's odd that the family values crowd see a man on his third wife as 'one of them' because he wants to stop gays having even one marriage?

B.
 

down_the_street

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Well ... speaking as a conservative ... I'm not entirely sure the caricatures of conservatism listed here so far are fair, or accurate. Sure, some of us are bigots. So are some liberals. Tis the way of the world.
 

gb2000ie

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Well ... speaking as a conservative ... I'm not entirely sure the caricatures of conservatism listed here so far are fair, or accurate. Sure, some of us are bigots. So are some liberals. Tis the way of the world.

Well - I just judge conservative politicians by the legislation they propose and vote for. I think there is no fairer way to judge a politician.

I doubt every conservative is as extreme as those who speak for you all, but really, if you are being miss-represented, speak up! If you don't agree with government-enforced rape (medically necessary vaginal penetration without consent), speak up!

B.
 

Tjerk12

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Well - I just judge conservative politicians by the legislation they propose and vote for. I think there is no fairer way to judge a politician.

I doubt every conservative is as extreme as those who speak for you all, but really, if you are being miss-represented, speak up! If you don't agree with government-enforced rape (medically necessary vaginal penetration without consent), speak up!

B.

I agree, but ... there is always a but! Democracy needs some kind of update. Parties unite in their views. Greece was the nursery of democracy. The politicians who voted against the latest shortcuts were simply thrown out their parties. Such behavior makes it difficult to speak freely.
 

down_the_street

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Well - I just judge conservative politicians by the legislation they propose and vote for. I think there is no fairer way to judge a politician.

I doubt every conservative is as extreme as those who speak for you all, but really, if you are being miss-represented, speak up! If you don't agree with government-enforced rape (medically necessary vaginal penetration without consent), speak up!

B.

Thing is, no one "speaks for us all" just like no one "speaks" for all liberals, and no two conservatives hold the all of the same beliefs any more than any two liberals hold the same beliefs. For example, I'm fairly hard right on defense and free-market economics and slightly center-left on a lot (but not all) social issues. My guy in the GOP nomination race was Jon Huntsman. The thought of Gingrich or Santorum winning makes me slightly ill. Yet other conservatives like big-government activism and isolationism and take a hard-core turn on social policy. There's not such thing as a stereotypical conservative.

And every complex political controversy is more significant than mere bumper-sticker slogans. Every issue on which conservatives and liberals disagree has a legitimate, substantive disagreement about *something* at its core. To dismiss all conservatives because you reflexively disagree with a caricature of conservative opinion is not, I think, a sign of superiority or sophistication. It's merely the other side of the token of ignorance cast at those with whom one disagrees.
 

garth33

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I agree, but ... there is always a but! Democracy needs some kind of update. Parties unite in their views. Greece was the nursery of democracy. The politicians who voted against the latest shortcuts were simply thrown out their parties. Such behavior makes it difficult to speak freely.

you're right T. Greece was the birthplace of democracy a LONG time ago. Whats happening with them now...chaos.:worried: The US is split in almost a 50/50 Ice war where neither side wants anyone but themselves to get more than 1% of the credit! Democracy does need an update...just don't know how to go about it...

peace,
g33
 

gb2000ie

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Thing is, no one "speaks for us all" just like no one "speaks" for all liberals, and no two conservatives hold the all of the same beliefs any more than any two liberals hold the same beliefs. For example, I'm fairly hard right on defense and free-market economics and slightly center-left on a lot (but not all) social issues. My guy in the GOP nomination race was Jon Huntsman. The thought of Gingrich or Santorum winning makes me slightly ill. Yet other conservatives like big-government activism and isolationism and take a hard-core turn on social policy. There's not such thing as a stereotypical conservative.

I'm not saying that anyone person speaks for all conservatives, but no one seems to be speaking up for the conservatives like you, so it's hardly surprising that people build up stereotypes.

What ever else you can say about Democrats, they don't speak with even nearly as united a voice as the Republicans do. Many people mock the democrats for that, but I think it's a good thing. Speaking out against even a democratic president is normal among Democrats, just look at the attacks against him for his lack of action on gay rights, particularly early in his term. This kind of diversity of opinion makes it much harder to stereotype democrats.

I think it would be healthy for the Republican party if more people spoke up when they don't agree with the very extreme candidates they seem to be settle on. All the main-stream candidates have come out against hormonal birth control and in favour of personhood amendments. This is very extreme stuff, and I know all Republican don't buy into that shit because of the recent vote in Missisipi where a very red state rejected a personhood constitutional amendment. Why do the candidates not reflect more of the diverse views of American conservatives? The only answer I can give is that conservatives are afraid to speak out for some reason, perhaps it's seen as dis-loyal or something?

And every complex political controversy is more significant than mere bumper-sticker slogans. Every issue on which conservatives and liberals disagree has a legitimate, substantive disagreement about *something* at its core.

That used to be defintiely true. Now, I'm not so sure. I'm seeing a lot of reflexive nay-saying. E.g. the individual mandate was a Republican idea, but as soon as Obama was for it, we saw sponsors of past bills FOR the individual mandate suddendly delaring the whole idea unconstitutional! Similarly, Pay as you go is a very sensible and very responsible Republican idea. Obama was for it, then, the Republican leadership turned against it, and killed it.

I KNOW there are principled, intelligent, honest conservatives with a lot ot add to the political discourse in the US, unfortunately, they don't seem to be getting elected! Instead, extremist, reflexive hyper-partisans seem to be getting elected, and they are giving all conservatives a bad name.

To dismiss all conservatives because you reflexively disagree with a caricature of conservative opinion is not, I think, a sign of superiority or sophistication. It's merely the other side of the token of ignorance cast at those with whom one disagrees.

I agree, so it's not something I do or support doing.

I am often very critical of republicans, but it's never because they are republicans, but because of what they are doing or saying. I think it's very important to be able to have a civil discussion, and to be able to compromise, but, both of those things seem to be bad words to the majority of elected republicans in the US houses of congress at the moment.

I wish I was blindly ignoring all the strong evidence to the contrary, but alas, I really don't think I am :(

B.
 
I

iSlut

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Here's a good example of conservative hypocrisy in action, from just this past week:

Code:
http://tinyurl.com/7qkmq4j

A sheriff is running for Congress on an anti-immigrant platform. And he has a secret gay immigrant lover.

The sheriff was at CPAC, by the way. No telling if he ran one of those Craigslist ads, but he did run Adam4Adam ads in his underwear.

27zc7ix.jpg
 

topdog

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Tjerk12, you're effectively saying you want people to have the freedom to attempt to deny our freedom..

In my opinion, yes, they have the right to speak up, lobby, raise money, and win elections, if they can, in an attempt to limit my freedom. That's democracy and free speech. I will do the same. I don't think that one can push an opinion or agenda off the table and declare it to be illegitimate or illegal just because it would do one harm.

Let them pass laws (like DOMA in the US). I will go to court and challenge them. Let them write books and lie, and ignite people's fear. I have the freedom and ability to do the same coming from the other direction. This is how politics works. This is how the sausage gets made.

Everyone has the right to be an asshole. I'm perfectly fine with that. It makes them easier to spot and avoid.

Here's a good example of conservative hypocrisy in action, from just this past week: A sheriff is running for Congress on an anti-immigrant platform. And he has a secret gay immigrant lover....

Well, unless the lover was in he US illegally, I don't see the hypocrisy. You can be gay and have an opinion on immigration issues - there is no real connection between those things. As a matter of fact I know lots of INS agents that have boyfriends. That is not relevant to anything regarding their work.

Is there more to this story than the fact that his boyfriend emigrated from somewhere else?
 
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