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Gaydar??

theseeker

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It's a term I've been seeing for a long time.... what is it really? Is it real, or just a myth? I've heard all gays and girls apparently have it, and seems to be 100% accurate in spotting the gays/bis from the straights? Is there such a thing?:?
 

jw4833

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Personally, I can only speak for myself in regard to this topic ...yes its real. After being out in the gay community for awhile, I have come to realize that I had the intuition to know a fellow gay man in the environment that I was in. For example, just recently, I was taking out the trash a few weeks ago, and this really cute guy was outside in the back area of the building playing with his little puppy. However, what made my "gaydar" go off was the way this guy was looking at me with his eyes and the huge smile that came across his face. Now, this may not seem justifiable to some who read this, but it was a feeling that I had from his reaction towards me that alerted me that he was either gay or bisexual or even down low because a few days later, I was on my way to one of the local parks in my neighborhood and as I was walking towards that direction, I come upon this guy again and what made me notice him was the fact that he was staring at me before I was close in his presence. He was walking with a female who by the way, grabbed his arm and wrapped it around hers as soon as she saw me coming their way. What made matters worst or should I say confirmed my "gaydar" was that everytime I would see him and this woman in the neighborhood, she would grab him and she would not speak although he did every time he saw me. She would always put her head down when they approached me or either look in another direction while he went out of his way to greet me. With all being said, her behavior confirmed to me that this guy has had sex with other men and she was well aware of it.
 

gb2000ie

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Gaydar is just a term for people's ability to pick up on people's sexuality. Gaydar exists in the same way that any type of empathy exists. Do we have saddar? or happydar? or scardydar? It's not a binary thing, we all have some ability to tell if people are sad, or angry, or what ever, similarly, we all have some ability to pick up on cues that suggest a person's sexuality. Some people are really good at it, and so we colloquially say they have a good gaydar, others, like me, are not good at it, so we colloquially say we have a bad gaydar.

It's not that people either can or can't, but are either better or worse at making correct guesses.

B.
 

dargelos

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The only gaydar that always works is the smartphone application.
My natural gaydar is not reliable enough to rely upon. A man with a voice like Julian Clary turns out to be straighter than a pool cue. The hunk who looked like he just escaped from maximum security prison is actualy The Queen Bitch. If you always pick the low hanging fruit, you get a false idea of how well your gaydar is working, then you miss out on the tastier fruit further up the tree.
In an ideal world it wouldnt matter, nobody would take offence when you got it wrong. There was that lad one night who took it as a great compliment that I had mistook him for gay, he said he was so sorry to be a disappointment. What a sweetie. But that only happened once. Some lads reactions are a long way away from polite. Being able to run fast was a useful counterbalance for a flaky gaydar.
 

tonka

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Not so many decades ago, gaydar was an important skill. Very few people were completely out; most people were not out at all. Having well developed gaydar helped you navigate your life.
 

jon13lee

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My personal opinion, gaydar is more like an educated guess. We can't be accurate all the time. My gay friends and I look at an individual and take bets at time bc we just can't tell. The way a person walks, talks, mannerisms, and dress is getting more and more confusing as sexuality is being redefined on a daily basis.
 

reasek1

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I don't really believe in it. :thinking: I have known guys who were straight but just a bit effeminate. Everyone would imagine they were gay, especially if they are not yet married.... a few years would go by and then you would hear they are married and have several kids.
Actually if a guy is straight and happily married but does not feel the need to hide his feminine side, it's a really good and honest sign.

I do however think that if someone is pretending to be something they are not... you can pick up on that sometimes.
 

theseeker

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Ah, so basically it's more of an intuition or a skill, much like an experienced cop who could "tell" if a suspect is lying (which according to certain sources they aren't that good at it btw). I mean, the way some people make it out to be seems to be more like an instinct, with statements like "even jammed gaydar can tell" and stuff :rofl:

Are there any common "traits" that gay/bi person would have? For example, I don't think I differ that much from other guys, I don't dress that differently (T-shirt and jeans), (I think) I don't act that differently, I've been told I'm can be a bit sensitive and I do get emotional at times but I keep all of it in my head, I play video games (but I suck at MP). How would you be able to tell me apart from other guys, or more importantly, how do I notice people who are similar to me?
 

W!nston

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I believe Gaydar is real but it takes a little practice to use it properly. The clues you are looking for are in facial expressions:

“GAYDAR” colloquially refers to the ability to accurately glean others’ sexual orientation from mere observation. But does gaydar really exist? If so, how does it work?

Our research, published recently in the peer-reviewed journal PLoS ONE, shows that gaydar is indeed real and that its accuracy is driven by sensitivity to individual facial features as well as the spatial relationships among facial features.

We conducted experiments in which participants viewed facial photographs of men and women and then categorized each face as gay or straight. The photographs were seen very briefly, for 50 milliseconds, which was long enough for participants to know they’d seen a face, but probably not long enough to feel they knew much more. In addition, the photos were mostly devoid of cultural cues: hairstyles were digitally removed, and no faces had makeup, piercings, eyeglasses or tattoos.

Even when viewing such bare faces so briefly, participants demonstrated an ability to identify sexual orientation: overall, gaydar judgments were about 60 percent accurate.

Since chance guessing would yield 50 percent accuracy, 60 percent might not seem impressive. But the effect is statistically significant — several times above the margin of error. Furthermore, the effect has been highly replicable: we ourselves have consistently discovered such effects in more than a dozen experiments, and our gaydar research was inspired by the work of the social psychologist Nicholas Rule, who has published on the gaydar phenomenon numerous times in the past few years.

We reported two such experiments in PLoS ONE, both of which yielded novel findings. In one experiment, we found above-chance gaydar accuracy even when the faces were presented upside down. Accuracy increased, however, when the faces were presented right side up.

What can we make of this peculiar discovery? It’s widely accepted in cognitive science that when viewing faces right side up, we process them in two different ways: we engage in featural face processing (registering individual facial features like an eye or lip) as well as configural face processing (registering spatial relationships among facial features, like the distance between the eyes or the facial width-to-height ratio). When we view faces upside down, however, we engage primarily in featural face processing; configural face processing is strongly disrupted.

Thus our finding clarifies how people distinguish between gay and straight faces. Research by Professor Rule and his colleagues has implicated certain areas of the face (like the mouth area) in gaydar judgments. Our discovery — that accuracy was substantially greater for right side up faces than for upside-down faces — indicates that configural face processing contributes to gaydar accuracy. Specific facial features will not tell the whole story. Differences in spatial relationships among facial features matter, too.

Consider, for example, facial width-to-height ratio. This is a configural physical feature that differs between men and women (men have a larger ratio) and reflects testosterone release during adolescence in males. Given that stereotypes of gender atypicality — gay men as relatively feminine and gay women as relatively masculine — play a role in how people judge others’ sexual orientation, our finding suggests that cues like facial width-to-height ratio may contribute to gaydar judgments.

Another novel finding: in both experiments, participants were more accurate at judging women’s sexual orientation (64 percent) than at judging men’s (57 percent). Lower gaydar accuracy for men’s faces was explained by a difference in “false alarms”: participants were more likely to incorrectly categorize a straight man as gay than to incorrectly categorize a straight woman as gay.

Why might “false alarm” errors be more common when judging men’s sexual orientation? We speculate that people overzealously interpret whatever facial factors lead us to classify men as gay. That is, it may be that straight men’s faces that are perceived as even slightly effeminate are incorrectly classified as gay, whereas straight women’s faces that are perceived as slightly masculine may still be seen as straight. That would be consistent with how our society applies gender norms to men: very strictly. (Decades of research has established that, at least in our culture, it is considered much more problematic for a boy to play with Barbie dolls than for a girl to play rough-and-tumble sports.)

We know that gaydar research may elicit discomfort. To some, the idea that it’s possible to perceive others’ sexual orientation from observation alone seems to imply prejudice, as if having gaydar makes you homophobic. We disagree: adults with normal perceptual abilities can differentiate the faces of men and women, and of black and white people, but such abilities do not make us sexist or racist.

Though gaydar may not be driven by homophobia, it is relevant to discrimination policy. One of the arguments against nondiscrimination protection for lesbian, gay and bisexual people is that if sexual minorities concealed their identities — à la “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” — discrimination would not be possible. We believe that such policies are unfair. But fairness aside, scientific experiments like ours indicate that such policies are also ineffective: discrimination against sexual minorities would not be eliminated by nondisclosure of sexual orientation, since sexual identity can be detected through appearance alone.

Should you trust your gaydar in everyday life? Probably not. In our experiments, average gaydar judgment accuracy was only in the 60 percent range. This demonstrates gaydar ability — which is far from judgment proficiency.

But is gaydar real? Absolutely.

Interestingly there seems to be some question as to how many muscles are in the human face and some people may have more muscles in their face than others:

Happiness. Sadness. Fear. Anger. Disgust. Surprise. Those are universal emotions, and it takes five facial muscles to display each of them to the world. All humans have these muscles, but possession of other facial muscles seems to vary a great deal among individuals. Although 43 muscles have been identified in the face, it's not uncommon to have fewer. The complex process of identifying facial muscles and why their appearance is inconsistent is the real story here.

Counting facial muscles is not as easy as you'd think. In most body parts, muscles tend to be bulky, distinct and connected to bone. Facial muscles are flat, can be intertwined and may be fastened solely to skin. Thorough studies of facial muscles are done using cadavers, removing the skin to allow examination of the remaining tissue. It can be very difficult to measure muscle, because it, well, moves so easily, contracting or expanding when manipulated.

Once muscles have been individually identified, what is found? The universal muscles are around the eyes, across the forehead, along the cheeks, under the mouth and above the mouth leading down to the chin. These make it possible to relay messages anywhere in the world. No matter the culture, language, social class, politics or economics of a region, a smile signifies pleasure as clearly as a frown indicates unhappiness. Some of these muscles are also involved in eating, drinking and vision, so their use extends beyond exhibiting emotions. All five muscles seem to be present in all humans and are usually quite symmetrical.

Variations, however, have been found among "nonbasic" muscles (those not used for universal expressions). They are often intertwined, both physically and functionally, with other muscles. During fetal development they develop and differentiate slower than the universal muscles. Nonbasic muscles might be absent altogether in a person or, in the case of paired muscles, they might be markedly asymmetrical. Some of the common missing muscles include the risorius (retracts the sides of the mouth), the depressor septi (constricts the nostrils) and the nasalis (moves nasal cartilage).

The universality of some muscles, coupled with deviations of others, suggests an evolutionary aspect to facial musculature. Human development over time has ensured that important expressions can be understood despite geographical or societal differences. This still allows for individual and cultural variations.

Your experience with the young man playing with his puppy then walking with a female sounded very much like you have a good sense of Gaydar. Just keep watching their faces and play the "Is he Gay?" game for practice :)
 

theseeker

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Just keep watching their faces and play the "Is he Gay?" game for practice :)

But... How do you know if it's true? Suppose I play that game, that guy isn't gonna tell me if he's gay or not, and I sure as hell won't ask that either, so how do I know if I'm right?:?
 

W!nston

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It's not always possible to know if you were right nor wrong. In the case of the neighborhood guy you spoke of you might find out some day. If you have a feeling he might be Gay and that he might be interested in you then try saying hello and find some common interest, like puppies ;) or something to talk about when the girl isn't around. Don't be so shy. If you're not sure enough to speak to him then the chances are it's just wishful thinking on your part which is perfectly alright, hehe, I do a lot of wishful thinking myself!

Besides, tuning your Gaydar by observation can be a fun activity while you boy watch.

You've come up with some interesting discussions TheSeeker. I've enjoyed them all.

Sniffit ;)
 

ihno

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Wow, topic gaydar and there they all come and post. :D

Yes, there is a gaydar, even Himmler knew about it, that gays know each other.

I have it too.
 

theseeker

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In the case of the neighborhood guy you spoke of you might find out some day.

Erm, that wasn't me.
I can't tell the difference (hence the creation of this topic), besides those who are painfully obvious (Gucci handbag, long feminine hair and makeup, sashays across the room... it wasn't surprising when he told everyone he was gay). I know (and I hope) most of us aren't that stereotypical, but I can't tell beyond those "obvious" characteristics.
 

W!nston

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I was mistaken. It was jw4833 who spoke of a neighborhood hottie. But the sentiment is the same. You'll see someone who you sense is gay. To find out if you are right or not try to start a conversation about something you might observe about him. If he's interested he will let you know but at the very least you might make a friend. :)
 

jw4833

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I was mistaken. It was jw4833 who spoke of a neighborhood hottie. But the sentiment is the same. You'll see someone who you sense is gay. To find out if you are right or not try to start a conversation about something you might observe about him. If he's interested he will let you know but at the very least you might make a friend. :)

Thanks for your response to my post...however, I'm not interested in really confirming if this is true due to the fact that apparently he is involved with someone and I do not want any parts of that. Let alone dealing with his "woman" antics even if a friendship would develop. I just thought I would share this story because I felt it relates to the topic of discussion.
 

W!nston

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Yeah jw when I suggested starting a conversation I was talking about TheSeeker but I understand your feelings.

:)
 

theseeker

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Thanks for your response to my post...however, I'm not interested in really confirming if this is true due to the fact that apparently he is involved with someone and I do not want any parts of that. Let alone dealing with his "woman" antics even if a friendship would develop. I just thought I would share this story because I felt it relates to the topic of discussion.

Yeah... Perhap's he's bi? Married couples can ogle at other girls/guys too, and she's either rather insecure or understands that society aren't as accepting as those who fall outside of the "social norm".
 

dargelos

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I've used this story before but recycling is good.
I'm this bar, there's no women, all twenties men, the look is tight jeans, Lacoste shirts, fake tan, gold earring, boyband hair, good moisturiser. The smell is CK cologne. The sound is loud fast hardhouse.
By now all the lights on your gaydar are flashing and the vu meter has gone past the red scale. So how many of these men were gay? Not one. This was in a rough tough ex mining village. Gay men don't stay in backward hicksville places like that when the gay bars of Newcastle are not far away. Why do they adopt gay music and gay looks? Thats another topic, for now the point is that all those obvious clues turned out to be completely misleading.
One part of our AWACS system that does work is that gay men will always pick up, before long, that they are being cruised. If he is in the mood to play he will find a way of letting you know. If he isn't going to play then he'll not give anything away. Straight men, with their less developed brains, are slower to catch your meaning so you have a short window of opporunity in which to decide if you should keep trying, or back off, or sometimes, rapidly back the hell off.
This detection system, like grindr type cellphone systems, will not tell you who is gay, it will tell you who is on the lookout for gay company, not exactly the same thing.
 

theseeker

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Hmm interesting, dargelos... so why do they "adopt gay music and gay looks"? :p

I see what you're getting at, but I didn't like what you said that straight men have "less developed brains"... I think that is more of a matter of "you don't notice what you're not looking for". Everyone else does that too. If a guy is straight and very comfortable with his sexuality then there's no reason he should be looking out for other guys checking him out, unless it starts to get creepy.

Btw, an AWACS system? Cool! Where can I get one of those?! It seems like the only way I can pick up signals is when someone lights up the entire array of airstrip lights, plus EVERY light within a mile away from the strip!:rofl:
 

dargelos

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Less developed brains was a joke, dont take it seriously, some of my best friends are hetro, as they say. "You don't notice what you're not looking for" your reply is perfect. And "if a guy is straight and very comfortable with his sexuality"... but there's the rub. It's the ones who are sexualy insecure who do get creeped out at the idea of gay men even being in the same room. They're probably the ugly ones that non of us would dream of hitting on anyway.
About the bar in Hicksville, Bumfuck Nowhere without the bumfuck, my answer is only a theory and might be utter rubbish but just for fun, here we go. The men in that town know that there will be no gays left, they all leave to live in civilisation instead, that gives them freedom to dress to look good, safe in the knowledge that there will never be any of us to get attracted to them. As for music, the dumbest straight knows that our clubs play better music.
 
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