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Healthcare? More specifically Obama-care.

josh_the_hot_boy

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I am sick and tired of republicans fighting over and over about Obama-care. Look its done passed into law. Get over it. When will you realize that its a good thing. Stop trying to opt out on a state level. It was passed into federal law which means that state need abide by it. If the past 32 votes to appeal haven't worked what makes you think that the 33rd time will be the charm? Look I will continue to have healthcare thanks to the new healthcare bill and my grandma will receive more in Medicare benefits thanks to it. What is the problem. More people will be eligible for Medicare because of it too. Whats wrong with saying that everyone needs to have healthcare and that were gonna provide a lo cost option for those who can't afford it? Seriously shut up its a good thing end of story.
 

tonka

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It's all about politics, not about you or your Grandmother, or any other regular person. And you can be sure all the pols who are yelling have very fine health insurance for themselves.

Most of the states who are insisting that they won't participate will fall in line after the election. Their hospitals will go bankrupt otherwise.
 

brmstn69

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I never mentioned it here but my mother just returned home last this week after spending 2 weeks in the hospital and 4 weeks in a nursing center due to a heart problem.

While in the hospital, she was given a very nice private suite (most rooms are shared by 2 patients) and again at the nursing center, a private suite.

My mother is on disability and gets about $1100 a month in income. Her medical bills have totaled about $120,000.
Between Medicare and her supplemental insurance we are only responsible for about $2,000 of that.

I don't care what anyone says, Obamacare is working for us...
 

RefixnarcisM

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There is always a controversy in every action. For this one, some people think that the obama-care is like a shining star, a hope for a better life and health. But some people might saw from the other point of view like how's the hospital workers life, do they got a rising fee? and so.
Well for me, although Im not living in that country, I guess they should know how lucky they were, many country still got a big issues to make sure that every citizen got a health and life insurance. Many promises campaign about it but practically after they got elected, it just become a words only or not every citizen got the same chances getting health and life insurance.
 

gb2000ie

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The problem with US politics, particularly WRT healthcare, is that it's not about facts, or policies, or outcomes, but about partisan politics.

Obamacare is Romneycare. It worked in Massachusetts, it will probably work in the US if it's not sabotaged.

The individual mandate is not even socialism, let alone communism, it's true-blue capitalism. This is probably why it was a Republican idea in the first place, and one that goes back LONG before Romney's time as governor.

There are three ways to get healthcare costs down:
1) get rid of the private insurance companies, and just give everyone government healthcare. This is what they do in the UK, in Canada, in France, and many other places. You'll hear this called things like "single payer", or "medicare for all". This is a socialist idea. That doesn't make it bad, but it is none-the-less genuine socialism.
2) stop freeloaders getting healthcare. If an uninsured person gets sick, let 'em die. This is the Ron Paul outlook. It's pretty darn extreme, and utterly unpalatable to any true Christian. It would never work as national policy.
3) stop there being any free loaders. This is what the individual mandate does. If you can afford insurance, you have to get it, so there will be no free-loaders. This is the basis for Romneycare and Obamacare. This is forcing people to pay PRIVATE COMPANIES to provide their healthcare. This is uber-capitalism. The government are not providing healthcare, the market is. The government is just there to make sure everyone takes part in the market so there are no free-loaders driving up the premiums for everyone else.

When ever you hear any politician describe Romeycare/Obamacare as "communism" or "socialism" or a "government takeover of healthcare", they are lying. It is a factual error. There is no point in listening to them, because they don't give a shit about reality or the actual health of people, they just want to play politics.

When facts are divorced from politics, you know you are in a very very sick democracy. America is a very very sick democracy right now.

B.
 

ritsuka

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It isn't a 'good thing,' it's corporate welfare for the insurance industry that is forcing people to pay corporations for giving them shitty, expensive medical care (alternative medicine won't even be covered.) It will still leave out millions of people and refuse good care when needed for those who do have insurance. Obama/Romney/Clinton/Bush-Care will do nothing to change the fact that we have one of the worst and most expensive health care systems in the developed world. I couldn't care less about 'republicans' or their identical twins the 'democrats,' we need single payer health care, and we could have had it if Obama's corporatist policies hadn't ruled it out at the beginning.
 
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gb2000ie

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It isn't a 'good thing,' it's corporate welfare for the insurance industry that is forcing people to pay corporations for giving them shitty, expensive medical care (alternative medicine won't even be covered.)

To call it corporate welfare doesn't seem to fit with the facts as I see them. The insurance companies had to give and take. The up-side for them is obvious, more customers! But, in exchange for that, the insurance companies had to concede a bunch of changes to their practices. Some of the more notable ones:
1) can't deny people for having pre-existing conditions - this is HUGE!
2) kids get to say on their parents insurance while they go to college and settle down into working life. This is very significant since it is utterly unreasonable to expect kids already burdened with college loads to get even deeper into debt just to get healthcare cover.
3) Insurance companies must spend 80¢ if ever $ on actual healthcare - if they don't, they have to reimburse customers the difference.

Finally, not a single company is guaranteed a single extra customer. The MARKET is guaranteed millions more, but no individual company is. Companies will have to compete for business. The ingredients are there for a healthy market.

As for the red-herring of "Alternative medicine" - the bits of "alternative medicine" that work are called "medicine", the rest is just a placebo at best or outright dangerous at worst. I think evidence should always trump faith, but I think that's especially true when it comes to healthcare. The lives are people are not play-things. If you can't prove your "remedy" makes people healthier in a double-blind test, then you have no right to say it does, and no reputable healthcare company should come within a million miles of your quackery!

It will still leave out millions of people and refuse good care when needed for those who do have insurance. Obama/Romney/Clinton/Bush-Care will do nothing to change the fact that we have one of the worst and most expensive health care systems in the developed world.

I really don't get this argument at all. Things are REALLY shitty now, so people work really hard to make them better, and then they get berated for not making them perfect. W. T. F.?

I think there is a lot more work to be done to make things even better post-Obamacare, but that does not blind me to the fact that things are FINALLY moving in the right direction!

I dearly wish single payer had been an option, or failing that, at least a public option. Because of they people Americans elected, that was not on the cards.

I couldn't care less about 'republicans' or their identical twins the 'democrats,' we need single payer health care, and we could have had it if Obama's corporatist policies hadn't ruled it out at the beginning.

The Americans voted for Obama's corporatist policies - Americans have gotten the government they deserve! Most Americans don't vote, so the extremists who do get to run the country. There is a REALLY simple solution, educate yourselves and vote!

As for the Democrats being identical to the Republicans - did you miss the healthcare battle? Were you living in some kind of cave for the last three years or something? Clearly, they are exactly the same, because the Republicans did their very best to sabotage any and all reform, and the democrats fought tooth and nail to make as much progress as they could!?

If you want people to take your rantings seriously, you need to keep them at least connected to reality, of not anchored in it.

B.
 

tonka

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Democrats have been trying, and failing, to get universal healthcare for decades. The previous big push was when Clinton put Hilary in charge of it. She came up with a great, comprehensive package...and it failed.
Obama the pragmatist went the opposite route. A political mishmash of a deal, but it paased, and if he's reelected, it will stick.
A work in progress is a lot better than nothing. Maybe the crazy phase of our politics will subside at some point, and improvements can be made.
 

gb2000ie

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Wow someone has strong opinions but I agree.

Given that we're literally talking about life and death here, I'm not surprised people hold strong opinions. I also think that's a good thing. I don't think we'd be human of this topic didn't animate us!

B.
 

gb2000ie

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Democrats have been trying, and failing, to get universal healthcare for decades. The previous big push was when Clinton put Hilary in charge of it. She came up with a great, comprehensive package...and it failed.

And - to bring things full-circle, the Republican counter-proposal to Hillary's plan, was *drumroll please* the Individual mandate!

B.
 

ritsuka

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Mr. Goobie, I don't really care if people who don't even live in America, and get all of their information from democratic party spokespeople take my contributions "seriously" or not. The feeling is mutual! But a majority of actual americans are in favor of single payer healthcare, whether someone in Ireland wants us to have it or not doesn't bother us. But I'll make sure to watch some tv about your country and then tell you what your reality is. p:p
 

tonka

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I'm Irish American, the worst of the old world and the new.
I'll shut up too.
 

gb2000ie

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Mr. Goobie, I don't really care if people who don't even live in America, and get all of their information from democratic party spokespeople take my contributions "seriously" or not. The feeling is mutual! But a majority of actual americans are in favor of single payer healthcare, whether someone in Ireland wants us to have it or not doesn't bother us. But I'll make sure to watch some tv about your country and then tell you what your reality is. p:p

Tell you what - how about you actually attack my points, and not me?

Maybe, just maybe, I know what I'm talking about?

When someone has to fall back to childish name-calling, you know they have nothing to add to a real debate.

B.
 

gb2000ie

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Mr. Goobie, I don't really care if people who don't even live in America, and get all of their information from democratic party spokespeople take my contributions "seriously" or not. The feeling is mutual! But a majority of actual americans are in favor of single payer healthcare, whether someone in Ireland wants us to have it or not doesn't bother us. But I'll make sure to watch some tv about your country and then tell you what your reality is. p:p

I gave you a flippant answer to this Ad hominem yesterday, because frankly, it's all a post like that deserves. But, for the others in this thread, let me explain why I care about the US healthcare battle, and why I take the time to stay informed about it.

There are two answers:
1) The US is one of the largest nations in the world. It is also THE gravitational centre of the western world. What happens in America does not stay in America. American policy influences debate and hence policies throughout the western world. American multinationals are coming over here lobbying our health minister trying to drive the Irish system towards the US system.
2) In case you hadn't noticed, the Irish economy is in the shitter ATM. Things are not good here AT ALL. I'm lucky enough still to be employed. I REALLY REALLY hope it stays that way. I like my job, and I like Ireland. But, I am fully aware that if the proverbial shit does hit the proverbial fan, I may very well be forced to emigrate to get work. With my skill-set, America is an option that HAS to be considered.

Europeans care what happens in America for the simple reason that it affects us, both directly and indirectly. We don't LIKE this fact a lot of the time, but we are aware of it.

The reverse it really not true. Irish policy is unlikely to make a dent on US policy, so I wouldn't expect the majority of Americans to take the time to stay in formed on our poky little country. There are hundreds more like it around the globe - there are not 100s more Americas!

B.
 

tonka

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It's too bad we in America know so little about other countries. America is very late to the game in providing universal healthcare. Why do we have to reinvent it ourselves?

In so many discussions I've had, people are worried about the cost. When I respond that most other advanced countries have broader coverage, and do it for less, I get a standard response.
The eyes glaze over; they mumble words like freedom; they just don't want to engage it. The thought of borrowing ideas from Canadians, or the FRENCH!!!! is just too much to bear.
 

brmstn69

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I gave you a flippant answer to this Ad hominem yesterday, because frankly, it's all a post like that deserves. But, for the others in this thread, let me explain why I care about the US healthcare battle, and why I take the time to stay informed about it.

There are two answers:
1) The US is one of the largest nations in the world. It is also THE gravitational centre of the western world. What happens in America does not stay in America. American policy influences debate and hence policies throughout the western world. American multinationals are coming over here lobbying our health minister trying to drive the Irish system towards the US system.
2) In case you hadn't noticed, the Irish economy is in the shitter ATM. Things are not good here AT ALL. I'm lucky enough still to be employed. I REALLY REALLY hope it stays that way. I like my job, and I like Ireland. But, I am fully aware that if the proverbial shit does hit the proverbial fan, I may very well be forced to emigrate to get work. With my skill-set, America is an option that HAS to be considered.

Europeans care what happens in America for the simple reason that it affects us, both directly and indirectly. We don't LIKE this fact a lot of the time, but we are aware of it.

The reverse it really not true. Irish policy is unlikely to make a dent on US policy, so I wouldn't expect the majority of Americans to take the time to stay in formed on our poky little country. There are hundreds more like it around the globe - there are not 100s more Americas!

B.

Simple translation, no matter what lunacy Americans come up with, sooner or later The European Union will follow suit...

And to answer the question of why Americans are so reluctant to embrace universal health care, well...That's complicated.

For many it would be better, but most worry that it will mean much higher taxes. The real problem is that health care and pharmaceuticals in America are not that well regulated. The reason that drugs are cheaper in other countries is because they are regulated and drug companies sell them at little or no profit. So to make up the difference, Americans are taxed with much higher prices, so without regulation, American tax dollars spent on drugs would actually be subsidizing drug cost in other countries. There is also a problem with regulating health care services because health care is a huge business here with huge profit margins. The people in charge have formed powerful lobbying groups to keep it that way. So any politician pushing for regulation of health care that would limit their profits is committing political suicide...

It all boils down to greed...
 

josh_the_hot_boy

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Yup one word. Greed.

The middle class is a pawn in the chess game of life.
 
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parucci

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I don't know much about the healthcare deal in U.S.A. and Obama.
but with health care comes high taxes.

I think that it's hard to introduce the healthcare pack because of that.
Who wants to pay 40% of there income to taxes, if they are not guaranteed
100% healthcare. Well.. yeah it's hard to start but why not just do it?

Healthcare for everyone from to day! (but you have to pay higher taxes)

I can speak for my country. We in Denmark have healthcare for everyone.
You get paid to go to school. You don't pay anything for doctor visits.
If you got no home the state finds you a place to live. You don't got any money
- the state gives you money every month. Seems like a fairytale, but we pay high taxes.

Is it worth it? - My answer is yes.

This way we can help anyone.

of course some might use the system, but you don't get
a lot of money from the state. You get just enough to live
and no more.
 
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