It upsets me that people can get rich off of the sick and the poor.

[josh_the_hot_boy]

It really upsets me that in this country people can get filthy rich off of the sick and the poor. Prescription companies have lots of loop holes to enable them to continue to produce their medications under exclusivity to allow for no generic for decades. Warner Chilcott is the maker of Asacol which is a medication taken 3 times a day to treat Ulcerative Colitis. It cost 400 dollars for a one month supply with out insurance (or if your insurance won't cover it). Exclusivity depending on the medication can be granted for as long as 7 years meaning that that company has exclusive manufacturing rights for that amount of time. After that period the FDA allows other companies to start manufacturing generic versions of the drug. Warner Chilcott's exclusivity on Asacol was scheduled to end sometime this year but Warner Chilcott is discontinuing the production of Asacol and is going to start manufacturing a new medication called Delzicol which has the same amount of Mesalamine (the main ingredient in Asacol). I'm no expert on this stuff but from what I was reading on the FDA's website it means that Warner Chilcott will continue to have exclusivity on the medication for another I think it's 5 years. Which means it will continue to be 400 a month. Because Asacol is being discontinued no one will be able to manufacture it and because Delzicol is a new medication Warner Chilcott will have exclusivity for another 5 years. My gastroenterologist was saying the same thing. Again it really upsets me that in this country people can get filthy rich off of the sick and the poor.

 

[josh_the_hot_boy]

So I just learned that one of the biggest differences between Asacol (now discontinued) and Delzicol is that the first is a tablet and the new stuff is a capsule. I have my prescription of Asacol and it's tablets and yesterday my doctor gave me some free samples like they always have lying around and it is for Delzicol. So I opened it up and took a look. You'll never guess what I found. They took the tablet and stuck inside a capsule! I could hear the tablet rattling around inside! I can't believe it.

 

[gb2000ie]

You've hit the nail on the head of one of the most immoral and disgusting things about modern America - exploitation of the sick for profit. The second most disgusting thing is the prison industry - the ruination of lives for profit.

For a supposedly deeply Christian nation to be so utterly immoral and cruel is hypocrisy of the highest order. But of course, while claiming to worship Jesus, what America actually worships is the myth of the perfection of the free market. America is a land of extremism in the same way Stalinist Russia was, just it's polar opposite - extreme capitalism rather than extreme socialism.

Neither extremes work, because no extremes work. What works is balance. Without market forces you get stagnation, and without regulation you get catastrophically destructive booms and busts, and a massive gap between the rich few and the poor many.

I think of regulation like the moderating rods in a nuclear power plant - without the rods you have a bomb, with only the rods you have nothing. You need the nuclear fuel of the market, but you need to moderate it or it will destroy us all.

I really hope you have insurance Josh :/

B.

 

[prinz4ming]

Although the brand version of mesalazine (Asacol) has been stopped, the generic version will be available. The industry wont just stop making an effective drug. What they've done is they have effectively renewed the patent on their formulation, but the drug has many generic formulations.

Just playing devils advocate here.

The cost of development of a new drug (say for example an anticancer drug) from conception to development, preclinical and clinical trials to finally becoming available is one BILLION dollars on average.
Yes its deplorable how they use tactics like this to keep getting money, but without it none of the money needed for R&D of new drugs would be available. From a prospective THOUSAND different molecules developed as potential new drugs, less than a handful (on average 1-2) of them actually get approved by the FDA.
So if we want new treatments for cancers, heart disease, strokes, antibiotics, painkillers and other drugs, its a necessary evil. Yes, they are making money off of sick people, but unless the big pharma companies can show themselves to be profitable no one is going to invest in them and in the end of the day its the sick people lying in hospital without treatments for their illnesses who suffer.

I am not endorsing the methods used- just stating the facts.

 

[josh_the_hot_boy]

I WISH I had insurance. I make 7.78 (minimum wage) that's about 600 a month for 20-25 a week and 800 a month if the hours are better say 35-39.9 a week (I'm hired as part time). Health insurance on that budget? Haha please. I will be getting Medicare in January thanks to Obama but that's 6 months away. I have enough medication to last until August. So it'll be 5 months of medication out of pocket (August through December) which I can't afford so my mom will have to help out with. 400 a month times 5 months that's 2,000 dollars. Even my mom can't afford that. This is the true America. You wanna immigrate here? Fine go ahead I'd think twice.

 

[gb2000ie]

Although the brand version of mesalazine (Asacol) has been stopped, the generic version will be available. The industry wont just stop making an effective drug. What they've done is they have effectively renewed the patent on their formulation, but the drug has many generic formulations.

Just playing devils advocate here.

The cost of development of a new drug (say for example an anticancer drug) from conception to development, preclinical and clinical trials to finally becoming available is one BILLION dollars on average.
Yes its deplorable how they use tactics like this to keep getting money, but without it none of the money needed for R&D of new drugs would be available. From a prospective THOUSAND different molecules developed as potential new drugs, less than a handful (on average 1-2) of them actually get approved by the FDA.
So if we want new treatments for cancers, heart disease, strokes, antibiotics, painkillers and other drugs, its a necessary evil. Yes, they are making money off of sick people, but unless the big pharma companies can show themselves to be profitable no one is going to invest in them and in the end of the day its the sick people lying in hospital without treatments for their illnesses who suffer.

I am not endorsing the methods used- just stating the facts.

To play devils advocate to you playing devils advocate - why do you need business involved at all? The origins of medicine are not commercial, they are academic. if you raised taxes and publicly funded universities you would have 100% of money going into curing diseases, and 0% being creamed off into corporate profits and useless advertising. If health was not for profit all the money spent on advertising drugs would be saved instantly. Also, we have a system where the incentive is to over-subscribe, that would go away too, and only people who need meds will be prescribed meds.

In reality I think you need corporate involvement, but you need strong regulation and stern oversight.

B.

 

[josh_the_hot_boy]

Although the brand version of mesalazine (Asacol) has been stopped, the generic version will be available. The industry wont just stop making an effective drug. What they've done is they have effectively renewed the patent on their formulation, but the drug has many generic formulations.

Just playing devils advocate here.

The cost of development of a new drug (say for example an anticancer drug) from conception to development, preclinical and clinical trials to finally becoming available is one BILLION dollars on average.
Yes its deplorable how they use tactics like this to keep getting money, but without it none of the money needed for R&D of new drugs would be available. From a prospective THOUSAND different molecules developed as potential new drugs, less than a handful (on average 1-2) of them actually get approved by the FDA.
So if we want new treatments for cancers, heart disease, strokes, antibiotics, painkillers and other drugs, its a necessary evil. Yes, they are making money off of sick people, but unless the big pharma companies can show themselves to be profitable no one is going to invest in them and in the end of the day its the sick people lying in hospital without treatments for their illnesses who suffer.

I am not endorsing the methods used- just stating the facts.

Sorry but no I was just talking with my mom and Asacol is being discontinued because one of the ingredients in the coating was found to be bad so they had to pull it and reformulate it which is why Asacol can't be made any more and now they have Delzicol and can remain the only exclusive manufacturer of it. (I still could be wrong and you could be right but that's how I was explained it)

Just to add I think that the Pharmaceutical industry should be non profit. Just my opinion.

This is an interesting story about a lawsuit filled against Warner Chilcot http://www.pharmalive.com/sales-reps-soccer-balls-warner-chilcott-fraud


"Yet, the drugmaker appeared lax when reps crossed a line. For instance, one rep used used her phone to record a video of a nurse in her territory extolling the virtues of Atelvia while showing how easy it was to complete a prior authorization. Her manager posted the video to YouTube, which drew an FDA warning letter. The manager was fired, but the rep was not reprimanded."

 

[tonka]

For my own interest, I just looked up the drug on line.
Although the drug was developed by an American maker, it's patent is now owned by an Irish company, Warner Chilcot.
There does seem to be a generic available in Canada, Josh. Much cheaper. I've never bought Canadian drugs online, but it may be worth checking out.

Good luck, Josh.

 

[josh_the_hot_boy]

I have heard of the generic from Canada but I've never bought medications for other countries and are a little unsure about it.

 

[brmstn69]

Four of the ten highest paid CEO's on Forbes 500 are with pharmaceutical or medical equipment/service companies, including No. 1 ranked John H Hammergren CEO of McKesson who received $131.19 million in total compensation in 2012. If he put in 50 hours per week, that's still over $50,000.00 per hour...

A woman in Arizona was bitten by a rattle snake, went to the hospital and was given two doses of anti-venom. She was charged $40k per dose, $80k total. The same anti-venom is sold in Mexico for $100 per dose.

This is because drug cost are regulated in Mexico and Canada, but not in the U.S., so Americans in effect are subsidizing cost by paying much more.

And while the cost of developing new drugs is astronomical with some estimates as high as $4-$11 billion, a huge portion of those cost are paid for by government grants out of our taxes, so were paying twice...

 

[tonka]

Another issue with medical costs in the states (drugs and everything else) is that everyone pays a different price.
I have Blue Cross insurance, and every price is negotiated. The only people who pay full price are the uninsured.
Obamacare will help a lot with this as it kicks in. But many conservative states are resisting the change, leaving poor people behind.
Be glad you're in Colorado, Josh.

 

[josh_the_hot_boy]

The law is the law and weather the states like it or not Obamacare will be the law.

 

[gb2000ie]

Four of the ten highest paid CEO's on Forbes 500 are with pharmaceutical or medical equipment/service companies, including No. 1 ranked John H Hammergren CEO of McKesson who received $131.19 million in total compensation in 2012. If he put in 50 hours per week, that's still over $50,000.00 per hour...

A woman in Arizona was bitten by a rattle snake, went to the hospital and was given two doses of anti-venom. She was charged $40k per dose, $80k total. The same anti-venom is sold in Mexico for $100 per dose.

This is because drug cost are regulated in Mexico and Canada, but not in the U.S., so Americans in effect are subsidizing cost by paying much more.

And while the cost of developing new drugs is astronomical with some estimates as high as $4-$11 billion, a huge portion of those cost are paid for by government grants out of our taxes, so were paying twice...

Are Americans subsidising other countries? Or are Americans subsidising insane salaries and stupendous amounts wasted on ads and lobbying politicians and doctors?

I think blaming the rest of the world for the US bending over backwards and letting pharmaceuticals rape them without even providing lube is a cop out. Americans are being charged more because the companies are allowed to charge more.

B.

 

[DBOL777]

As long as congress passes laws allowing enormous lobbying money to be thrown their way and consider it legal, the average guy in the U.S. is shafted...The medical and legal professions give too much money to the legislators to keep the money flowing to the rich..

 

[tonka]

American healthcare is a mess. It's getting better. The Euro and other advanced nation models are WAY better.
But it is telling that Josh's drug was developed in America, and now owned by a Euro drug company.
America innovates; western Europe regulates. A simplification? Sure. But a little less whining; a lot more innovation. You are the smartest, most educated place in the world.

 

[brmstn69]

Are Americans subsidising other countries? Or are Americans subsidising insane salaries and stupendous amounts wasted on ads and lobbying politicians and doctors?

I think blaming the rest of the world for the US bending over backwards and letting pharmaceuticals rape them without even providing lube is a cop out. Americans are being charged more because the companies are allowed to charge more.

B.

Did I say "other countries"? No, I said cost, as in research, development, advertising, salaries, bribes, etc...

 

[josh_the_hot_boy]

It's still crazy to me every time I take my medication. I take 15 dollars in pills everyday. 2 people could go to lunch on 15 dollars depending on the type of restaurant.

 

[gb2000ie]

Did I say "other countries"? No, I said cost, as in research, development, advertising, salaries, bribes, etc...

You think that's all done in the US? As someone who live in Ireland where we have a massive pharma industry, I can tell you it's not, we're doing a metric shit-ton of it here! Also - academics do a lot of the research and dev work too.

It really isn't a case that the US does all the work and the rest of the world leeches off them.

B.

 

[tonka]

I have health insurance through my job, and my healthcare costs are about $15 per day. And I'm in great health.
Next year I have a few scheduled preventive procedures, I expect my costs next year will be $5000 or more.
My insurance is useful for two things. They negotiate prices, so I pay less than the full rate, and I am protected if anything really big happens. It won't bankrupt me.

 

[gb2000ie]

I have health insurance through my job, and my healthcare costs are about $15 per day. And I'm in great health.
Next year I have a few scheduled preventive procedures, I expect my costs next year will be $5000 or more.
My insurance is useful for two things. They negotiate prices, so I pay less than the full rate, and I am protected if anything really big happens. It won't bankrupt me.

The big problem with having your health tied to your job is that you are now trapped, and if you lose your job you are double-fucked - no food on the table, and no healthcare!

B.