Prism: Tech Industry Is Shaken by Online Privacy Fears

[reasek1]

For anyone not aware of it yet, here is an article:

Prism - NewYorkTimes

This strikes me as pretty scary. Even for those who feel they are safe because they have done nothing wrong.. what if, at some point in the future you say join a political group, just to protest against something, or defend some right.. knowing that these people can access your emails, your chats, your browsing activities, might make you think twice about speaking out too loudly.

One argument is that 'Prism targets only foreign nationals'.:thinking: But think about that for a moment.. how would a US citizen feel if the tables were turned, and a foreign powerful government (e.g. China, or Russia) had access to their private data?:worried:

Please let us know how you feel and what your opinions are, either way, but remember... someone out there might be watching.

 

[tonka]

What "They" might know is pretty creepy. Not just the feds, but companies. What does Google know about me?

I do have some understanding of the dilemma. We want total security, and total privacy, and no inconvenience. (Obama's point). I thought terrorist violence happened elsewhere. But it was right in my town this spring. (I just came in from my gym in Watertown...a sleepy town made famous by the marathon bombers).

We gave the government the job. "Make us safe, and don't bother me". Now we'll have to grapple with it. Am I willing to give up some privacy for better security? Yes. I say that for myself because I'm pretty mainstream and middle class, and I live in a country that does have real civil rights. I would me more wary if I lived in a more authoritarian place. Am I naïve? Maybe.

The big concern (for me) with the American secret security is the secrecy. "We can't tell you anything, but trust us. We are like you, and we are doing out best". That's not good enough.

 

[Dendood]

I probably should be more concerned but I surprise myself to the degree that I am not. Which makes me like 70% of Americans who go on with their day blissfully unaware. And when I do, my first thought is, "If you're going to watch me, why the HELL then don't you make yourself USEFUL? I mean, really. Send me email alerts when a hot wrestler is on TV. Tell me where to buy historical pigments of the renaissance on the cheap. Send me Paddy O' Brian's email account. FUCK, be useful.

I try to limit info I hand out. And as for Google, knowing someone's make up is not exactly the same as knowing their habits. I check the weather channel. Serial killers check the weather channel. -What's that going to tell you? Serial killers may google ways to commit murder, but even your average Joe my do the same out of curiosity.
Just because I may google Uterine Cancer doesn't mean I have it.

Where I am concerned is when Power uses power to protect wrong doing. I am opposed to the NSA whistle blower being jailed. We should support principled resistance when issues get murky. Not punish. As the great painter Leon Golub once said, they do not feel the need to silence you until they feel you are a sufficient threat.

Which they will do with or without spying.

 

[Tjerk12]

In The Netherlands we have an old expression: Zoals de waard is vertrouwt hij zijn gasten (As the landlord is himself so he trusts his guests); which means that people see others as they see themselves.
There is a long and sad history of societies that were based on distrust.

 

[haiducii]

 

[ihno]

That's the logical consequence of the laws George W. Bush came up with after 9/11. Germany is very much in focus too, I've read.

Some US-paper made this manipulation:

It was very courageous of the young Mr. Snowden to reveal it to the british paper. He'll have to pay a high price for this.

As for Obama: No big surpise. He had promised to close the Guantamo prison, hadn't he? Nothing has happened. Values are obviously not that imporatant if you are in power.

 

[MaximumT]

I'm not entirely surprised to hear about this. What's frightening, though, is the thought of that many are thinking in the lines of "I'm willing to sacrifice some of my privacy for security". I, myself, find that I'm thinking like that, BUT, by doing so, we've suddenly lowered the bar of our integrity. And if we do that, lowering it once again won't be far away until we suddenly find ourselves one day in a society with complete surveillance and maybe even no freedom of speech. At that point, reversing it would be difficult. I understand the dilemma, though, it would be difficult to prevent disasters and ill intentions before it happening without knowing it beforehand...

Writing this, I come to think of the Latin phrase:

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
(Who will guard the guards? / Who will watch the watchmen?)

Yes... who will?

 

[haiducii]

This showed up on my news feed today

@admins: please delete if this is off subject :thinking:

 

[ihno]

The german news bring this here:

http://anon.projectarchive.net/?http://obamaischeckingyouremail.tumblr.com/

 

[haiducii]

Obama is checking your email

The german news bring this here:

http://anon.projectarchive.net/?http://obamaischeckingyouremail.tumblr.com/

:rofl:

He's not checking only your email, he's also checking your luggage

 

[gb2000ie]

This is not surprising, but it is worrying - this is police state stuff!

The argument that if you have done nothing wrong you have nothing to worry about does not wash at all - if you disagree with the people in power, then you most certainly do have something to worry about, no matter how law-abiding you are. As a gay person, think of how much danger you would be in under a tea-party government?!

Within America everyone is focusing on the nonsense idea that this is only targeted at foreigners - not possible - but that is a total distraction. All the major internet services companies are American, and most the world is 'foreign'. I am not even slightly mollified by that fact that I am being targeted but Americans are not - on the contrary - I am horrified that a government that I do not get to vote for thinks it's hunky dory fine to spy on me!

We need tech companies in Europe, so that we can hold them to our higher standards, and save ourselves from the extremist American state.

As presidents go - Obama is OK - but just like all presidents before him (and probably all after him), power has corrupted him, and he has become that which he was campaigning against.

The America laid out the US constitution is a fiction, the US government has gutted it and buried it's corpse in secret courts making secret judgements to justify the destruction of all the rights laid down in the constitution. It's arguable that the America outlined in the American constitution never really existed, that it has always been corrupt, but I think you can reasonably argue that Al Queda have won - they have turned the self-style protector of freedom and democracy into a police state where big brother is watching everything.

The right to be protected from unreasonable search and seizure - GONE!

The politicians are busy telling everyone that this all OK because the program was legal - THAT FACT IS THE BLOODY PROBLEM, not a justification!

If it were possible, I would be boycotting US internet companies - but it just isn't

B.

 

[MrMonkey]

People - don't be naive! It is the way big powers function!

I don't like it --- but that's the way it is! And it is going to be more and more present in the coming years and decades! You are being watched!

There is a Chinese curse: "May you live in interesting times!"

I'm not surprised at all about this US-program!

 

[tonka]

One thing that is becoming clear: the oversight of these programs is very poor.

There is congressional oversight, but senators and congress people are forbidden to speak on the subject.
There is a court that must approve these orders. The FISA court. But it is secret, and has approved over 30,000 actions. Approval rate of 99.9%. That suggests a rubber stamp process, not a critical judicial review.

 

[haiducii]

People - don't be naive! It is the way big powers function!

I don't like it --- but that's the way it is! And it is going to be more and more present in the coming years and decades! You are being watched!

:agree:

 

[gb2000ie]

One thing that is becoming clear: the oversight of these programs is very poor.

There is congressional oversight, but senators and congress people are forbidden to speak on the subject.
There is a court that must approve these orders. The FISA court. But it is secret, and has approved over 30,000 actions. Approval rate of 99.9%. That suggests a rubber stamp process, not a critical judicial review.

The "oversight" is just a veneer - it's there to provide legitimacy, not actual oversight. Secret checks and balances do not check or balance!

B.

 

[MrMonkey]

The "oversight" is just a veneer - it's there to provide legitimacy, not actual oversight. Secret checks and balances do not check or balance!

B.

:agree:

When you want to hide something - you form a commission!

It gives people false sense that something is being done :duh:

 

[ihno]

People - don't be naive! It is the way big powers function!

I don't like it --- but that's the way it is! And it is going to be more and more present in the coming years and decades! You are being watched!

Yes and that's why you have to be careful, what you put on the internet.

Keep the "porn identity" strictly separated from your other one.

Just noticed that youtube tries to rename their accounts ("channels") after the googlemail-Data. So your vids etc. suddenly are supposed to have your "googable" real name above them.

 

[MrMonkey]

Yes and that's why you have to be careful, what you put on the internet.

Keep the "porn identity" strictly separated from your other one.

Just noticed that youtube tries to rename their accounts ("channels") after the googlemail-Data. So your vids etc. suddenly are supposed to have your "googable" real name above them.

:agree:

remember: when you put something on the internet it's really hard to remove it! I'm not an expert - but I would say it's almost impossible!

 

[Tjerk12]

I am not afraid for these developments because they seem impracticable. Nowadays people think that everything is doable. It is like in healthcare, use antibiotics too much and too often and you will create a situation that they will not work anymore; virus-sis will find ways to make themselves resistant to it. What makes me frown is that it seems that the enemies of democracy and freedom are winning. In an ridiculous attempt to protect our principles, we start to kill them.

 

[bigsal]

After the tragic events of September 11, the NSA monitors all phone calls and e-mails of all citizens of the European Community. This is not a secret. On the other hand all the giants of the web are in the U.S., I do not see how you can avoid this.