Prism: Tech Industry Is Shaken by Online Privacy Fears

[bigsal]

:agree:

When you want to hide something - you form a commission!

It gives people false sense that something is being done :duh:

:agree: :agree: :agree:

Unfortunately, the Italian politicians are masters at this. There are more commissions that manufacturing companies. Of course, all these commissions will not bring never any useful result to the population, on the contrary, cost a lot of money to the taxpayer.

 

[tonka]

The politics of this will be interesting. The progressive left and the libertarian right hate the big brother state (even more than they hate each other). More traditional Republicans are very protective of the military/ security status quo.

And then there are the internet billionaires of Silicon Valley. This could damage their business. These are powerful people with contacts in both parties, as well as an ability to reach the public.

 

[gb2000ie]

I am not afraid for these developments because they seem impracticable. Nowadays people think that everything is doable. It is like in healthcare, use antibiotics too much and too often and you will create a situation that they will not work anymore; virus-sis will find ways to make themselves resistant to it. What makes me frown is that it seems that the enemies of democracy and freedom are winning. In an ridiculous attempt to protect our principles, we start to kill them.

So you think big data does not work? But you use Google to search the web?

Unfortunately, this is not science fiction, this is computer science. The one thing we know for sure is that this stuff works!

B.

 

[Dendood]

I am not the most informed person on all this. I'm busy and I have a life. I'm sorry. I'm more concerned with how Jan van Eyck painted. But a lot of the commentary here and reactions are a bit too superficial for such a deep complicated topic. As witnessed by the comment about Obama, Gitmo and values going out the window.

Gitmo is open because Republicans use the legislature to BLOCK its closing. Had Obama been allowed to do as he wanted it would be closed. But he lacks a super majority in the Senate and the House wouldn't pass a resolution to praise Jesus if it had the president's name on it. So that is the fact of that. It is the complexity of reality... not his values being compromised.

I consider the fellow who ratted out the NSA to be an American Hero. And he deserves a pardon and lifetime financial support from the rest of us. These agencies lie to us rather than engage in the difficult dialogue that needs to be engaged. And for that lie they deserve to be called out. But beyond that, there is no simple 'right' -or wrong- going on here. People up in arms over the Government collecting data when Google, Verizon, AT&T, every corporation remotely connected to data has been mining every word you type, every key stroke from day one. Now you're outraged? Because someone has to sift through all these trillions of data bits in order to keep your ass safe when you get on a plane or take the road? Really?

As my limited understand goes, they have not been reading your mail or listening in on your calls. They have tracked data on WHO you mail and call, looking for threads of terror links. Meanwhile, your Google mail IS read by brother Corps. Presumably to make a buck, but don't let the innocence of unfettered capitalism . It's a tough and sticky game. On the one hand you're here talking about finding ways to leave a blank trail on the internet.... and people that mean you harm want to do the exact same thing.

If you're that much a genius, please inform us all of the 'easy' fix.

I'm a big enough of a man to 'set my values aside' to listen.

Bottom line, they did not have to lie. Even in the most difficult case honesty is still the best policy. One does not have to go to an Ivy League school or be a genius or Mother Teresa to understand that.

 

[Tjerk12]

So you think big data does not work? But you use Google to search the web?

Unfortunately, this is not science fiction, this is computer science. The one thing we know for sure is that this stuff works!

B.

The machinery will work, without any doubt, but I am talking about the result. What to do with all the results. For factories like google it is simple, they create machinery to do something with the data, to make financial profit. But when you talk about legal stuff, you need people to handle the data. It will be impossible to imprison millions of people without a decent trial. Do not forget that we, the people, are the real power. They, the power, only can exist as long as we give them the opportunity. Or, as the German Peace Movement in the seventies of the last century proclaimed: imagine there will be a war and nobody will take part.

 

[brmstn69]

I think this says it all...

 

[fatmanmedi]

we will never have true privacy as long as there are people who want to do us harm, i feel sorry for the guy who broke this story, i would not be too suprised if he was found dead by the end of the year.

fats

 

[gb2000ie]

This scandal is making more people think maybe they should try using Tor, the anonomising network that makes your internet traffic criss cross the world in a way which is hard for Big Brother's Thought Police to keep track of. Tjerk mentions the way over use of antibiotics renders them less effective, I am worrying that the same thing will happen when more and more internet users turn to Tor to keep the Stasi off their backs. Knowing that some people can still protect their freedom is going to make The Man try harder than ever to break into the Tor network. Nobody expects privacy to respected on the open internet any more but if or when the spooks can begin to record anonomised traffic that we thought was protected from such abuse, that's when it gets really scary.

I'm sorry to say TOR is of ZERO help in this case. The problem is not information being captured in transit (which is what TOR protects from), but with the people running the destination server handing the information to the US government. How your get there provides no protection at all.

Security tools, like power tools, have a purpose, and they can only do what they are for, they are not panaceas that can fix any security problem. Just like you can't saw wood with a hammer, you can't use TOR to protect yourself from PRISM.

B.

 

[gb2000ie]

The machinery will work, without any doubt, but I am talking about the result. What to do with all the results. For factories like google it is simple, they create machinery to do something with the data, to make financial profit. But when you talk about legal stuff, you need people to handle the data. It will be impossible to imprison millions of people without a decent trial. Do not forget that we, the people, are the real power. They, the power, only can exist as long as we give them the opportunity. Or, as the German Peace Movement in the seventies of the last century proclaimed: imagine there will be a war and nobody will take part.

Governments are not using this to go after millions, like you say, that is not practical, but, it is VERY practical to use info like this to target a few people who you see as enemies for what ever reason. Officially this is only to find foreign terrorists, but since it is all done in secret it could just as well be used to try find dirt on other politicians, or to discredit other people who are working against the government in what ever way.

This is not a sledge hammer, but it is a very dangerous scalpel.

B.

 

[Tjerk12]

Officially this is only to find foreign terrorists, but since it is all done in secret it could just as well be used to try find dirt on other politicians, or to discredit other people who are working against the government in what ever way.

This is not a sledge hammer, but it is a very dangerous scalpel.

B.

What is new about that? In the seventies of the last century at the time of the Cold War the secret services did the same. Mass were tapped phone calls to search for enemies. My phone was tapped during the time I volunteered to work for an anti fascist magazine. You knew that and took it into account. Resources have changed, not the intentions.

 

[gb2000ie]

I am grateful to gb2000ie for that clarification. So using second hand payg phones credited with cash is prob also a pointless precaution. Not that I have anything to hide from anybody of course, but there are law abiding people in some countries who do have honest reasons to keep a low profile.

That actually would work against the phone tracking revelations that came just before the PRISM revelations - man - what a bad week for privacy!

B.

 

[gb2000ie]

What is new about that? In the seventies of the last century at the time of the Cold War the secret services did the same. Mass were tapped phone calls to search for enemies. My phone was tapped during the time I volunteered to work for an anti fascist magazine. You knew that and took it into account. Resources have changed, not the intentions.

Right - so America is behaving like a totalitarian police state - that is EXACTLY the problem!

America is a nation that preaches to the world about the evils of the Chinese government, brags constantly that they are the home of freedom and democracy, and insists they are the right people to go spread it around the world.

America is not behaving like the land of the free, nor is it obeying the very lofty goals set out in it's constitution.

The 4th amendment in particular is in tatters - http://refhide.com/?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

The other thing that has changed is scale. The Gestapo and the KGB had a hard time making use of all that info because it had to be filed and searched by hand - America does not have that problem!

Whether or not this is a revolution in government abuse of power or an evolution in government abuse of power seems rather beside the point to me.

It is an abuse, it is wrong, and I am going to speak out against it.

B.

 

[Tjerk12]

It is an abuse, it is wrong, and I am going to speak out against it.

B.

Our positions do not differ that much, just our fear about it.
I am better in expressing my feelings by pictures.
Freedom:

 

[gb2000ie]

Our positions do not differ that much, just our fear about it.
I am better in expressing my feelings by pictures.
Freedom:

Yup - that sums it up pretty well

 

[reasek1]

An update on this matter:

news.yahoo.com/nsa-spying-allegations-rile-european-allies-200118500.html

One argument thus far has been that PRISM might be justified due to possible terrorist threats. However, now we see that even the EU is being monitored. It seems then that in the minds of some, most everyone is a 'potential' terrorist.:thinking:

It will be interesting to see how the US responds to the EU -or what kind of justification they try to come up with, if any.

Please continue to offer opinions guys.:cheers:

 

[tonka]

Don't they all track each other? The French track the Americans. The Germans track the Greeks. The Chinese track everybody; everybody tracks the Chinese.

There's no surprise here. All the governments know about it. But when it makes news, there is the required shock and outrage.

I for one am Shocked!!! Outraged!!! Off with their heads!!!

 

[gb2000ie]

Don't they all track each other? The French track the Americans. The Germans track the Greeks. The Chinese track everybody; everybody tracks the Chinese.

There's no surprise here. All the governments know about it. But when it makes news, there is the required shock and outrage.

I for one am Shocked!!! Outraged!!! Off with their heads!!!

Officially, allies do not spy on each other. In reality everyone knows everyone's diplomatic core is spying on everyone else's diplomatic core. That's expected.

For one government to hoover up the entire digital records of the entire population of the planet is not the same. This is not about spying on diplomats and politicians, it's about spying on you, me, and everyone else here.

You really should be outraged by that - though probably not shocked.

B.

 

[brmstn69]

Officially, allies do not spy on each other. In reality everyone knows everyone's diplomatic core is spying on everyone else's diplomatic core. That's expected.

For one government to hoover up the entire digital records of the entire population of the planet is not the same. This is not about spying on diplomats and politicians, it's about spying on you, me, and everyone else here.

You really should be outraged by that - though probably not shocked.

B.

Do you really think that the US is the only one doing that? I doubt it, the US just got caught...

 

[MrMonkey]

I was listening President Obama yesterday. He was trying to explain few things about spying on closest european allies.

His logic was: yes we spy on our closest allies, but they have nothing to worry about because we are friends... then it would be ok if french or german secret service puts few "bugs" in the White House... because we are friends and allies...? :thinking:

Spying on politicians is one thing, but spying on millions and millions of people who just live their lives, work their 8 hour shift on a crappy job to earn some money... that's completely different. That's paranoid!

It is always funny to see US-official explain himself after being caught doing something questionable. "We spy only a limited number of people." Only those with access to phone and internet, I guess. Limited number, indeed!

I have to be careful from now on. For example, I have to stop using the word "banana" because it is a possible weapon. It is probably on some NSA-forbidden/suspicious words list... Maybe I should call it "monkey-food"? :rofl:

 

[tonka]

There is a lot of paranoia. There is probably inappropriate spying.
But it's not about nothing. Yesterday was Canada day. Two guys were arrested in British Columbia for plotting to blow up the Parliament Building.

There now a public debate on the security/ privacy balance. That's for the good. By the way, Glen Greenwald says there a BIG story about to break. Stay tuned.

I have also exercised my right as an American to have all bananas shipped to Croatia bugged. After all, monkeys are suspicious by definition.