RIOT!

[Squallmuzza]

I just figured I'd drop this thread out there to subvert some misinformation before it hits.

As you may well know, the UK (more specifically London) is experiencing some rioting at the moment. What you might not realise is that they're essentially noble.

Many people believe that they have been spurred by the shooting of a man in Tottenham after he supposedly opened fire on police. In actuality, the rioting began as the result of a peaceful protest. During the protest, a young girl attempted to simply ask questions to a police officer, whose reply was to attack her with a baton. This caused the gathered crowd and eventually many others to rebel and fight the police. I feel this is quite a fair act (violence begets violence).

Now the riots are continuing on (Brixton, Enfield, Westfield, Walthamstow, The West End, possibly soon in Oxford Circus). These are mainly a continuation of this initial outrage at the injust actions of the police officers at the peaceful protest.

HOWEVER

There are many people using these riots as an excuse to smash up buildings, cars, property and to steal from stores. These people are not the same as those making an honest and noble stand against the police. These people are s and deserve to be put away for a long time both for their crimes and for the way they have made the honest rioting appear.

Please do not be misinformed.

 

[gb2000ie]

I've noticed a rise in police brutality in the UK over the last few years, I'm not at all surprised people have started to fight back against the new post-7-7 police state.

Hopefully the genuine grievances are not lost amidst the opportunist looting

B.

 

[Squallmuzza]

I've noticed a rise in police brutality in the UK over the last few years, I'm not at all surprised people have started to fight back against the new post-7-7 police state.

Hopefully the genuine grievances are not lost amidst the opportunist looting

B.

Very sadly, they seem to be getting covered over by the looting. The level of ignorance I've seen on my Facebook this evening is overwhelming. I sent up a massive informative status to try to combat this and ended up with a bunch of aimless arguments based on 'I read it in a (shitrag) newspaper somewhere'.

The police corruption and brutality needs to be addressed and I hope this is the start of it. For example, >100 people died in police captivity (not prison) over the past few years, and not a single police officer was even prosecuted over it, let alone anything else. That means no real investigation was done into the cirstances surrounding it.

This needs to end and hopefully these are the final dark moments having to be undertaken by the people to reach a resolution.

 

[hawtsean]

Very sadly, they seem to be getting covered over by the looting. The level of ignorance I've seen on my Facebook this evening is overwhelming.

I am against any kind of official or unofficial rough play by cops, let alone outright brutality. No ifs, ands or buts. There are many ways to restrain and control a violent offender without beating the shit out of him --- some using various martial arts tactics, and others using non-lethal weaponry. At the same time, the police are charged with keeping order and held responsible by higher authority if a riot goes unquelled, and typically those higher monkeys don't accept the excuse of "our powers don't cover that much manhandling of a suspect". I feel for the many cops who are a decent lot and not prone to abusing their power - this must be a dismal time for them, having to close ranks and cover up (or attempt to) any wrongdoing by brother officers.

 

[Squallmuzza]

I agree sean, but I feel the police has become a bit of an old boy's club now. It's just part of the culture of the job. It seems they feel they are above the law they're supposed to be policing and it's about time they realised that's very much not the case.

 

[gb2000ie]

The police are a lot like the Catholic Church - it's a small minority of bad eggs abusing their power, and a management that is more obsessed with protecting the reputation of their organisation than protecting innocent people.

B.

 

[hawtsean]

I agree sean, but I feel the police has become a bit of an old boy's club now. It's just part of the culture of the job. It seems they feel they are above the law they're supposed to be policing and it's about time they realised that's very much not the case.

I hear you on that. Where I live, our city council and police oversight committee just spent many hundreds of thousands of dollars to upgrade all the cameras in the detention cells, and added mics to each cam, with 24/7 recording of all cams on individual hard drives. This, just after a rather nasty bit of video tape that surfaced in a court battle launched by a woman who claimed she was beaten, manhandled and unreasonably strip-searched with a male officer present and smirking at her plight. It was essentially true when the video recording was produced in court, and part of her settlement was for the city to fix the cams within 6 months. They jumped to it, to avoid further legal entanglement, and it only took 2 months to get it done.

The offending officers who manhandled the woman and abused her privacy and dignity were reprimanded and given a week's suspension each with no pay. Not a lot, but at least they were publicly shamed.

 

[ritsuka]

Interesting. That is how it always goes, though. Both the local history of police brutality and the vast criminal activity (murders, coverups, harassment) committed by the police during hurricane Katrina was also buried under sensationalist reports about poor black people allegedly looting and shooting. All the mainstream media wants is stories of broken windows, not the real injustices that exist in the world.

 

[hawtsean]

Interesting. That is how it always goes, though. Both the local history of police brutality and the vast criminal activity (murders, coverups, harassment) committed by the police during hurricane Katrina was also buried under sensationalist reports about poor black people allegedly looting and shooting. All the mainstream media wants is stories of broken windows, not the real injustices that exist in the world.

I hear your disgust with police acting like criminals. I'm with you on that. But let's be straightforward here - is this assertion your personal opinion (which is okay if so labeled), or are there solid facts to back it up? (the specifics during Katrina). Yeah, the media aren't interested in truth, for sure. All they want is sensationalism in order to sell more paper and more broadcast air time. However, do you not think that, if there were some inkling of proof or a story to be broken about police corruption during the disaster, that the sensationalistic media would be on top of it like a dog with a steak bone?

Can you point me to anything, anywhere that offers objective validation of this claim? I wanna see/hear it.

 

[XMan101]

A lot of the problem in London is being caused by opportunist criminals. Whilst attention is being diverted elsewhere these sbags are planning attacks via their twitters and blackberrys in other areas simply so they can steal !

Many local people phoned LBC Radio last night who witnessed some of these people talking on buses etc about where they're going to go to get the stuff they want to loot. They know that there can never be enough police to cover everywhere so by their estimation many of them will get away with it.

Some fools are even posting photos of themselves online holding the stolen goods. This shows their mentatility!

Whatever might have created the initial spark there is never any excuse for all this, it's just gangs using the original turmoil as an excuse, they have no cause, no justification, they're just plain and simple thugs and thieves!

 

[gb2000ie]

A lot of the problem in London is being caused by opportunist criminals. Whilst attention is being diverted elsewhere these sbags are planning attacks via their twitters and blackberrys in other areas simply so they can steal !

Many local people phoned LBC Radio last night who witnessed some of these people talking on buses etc about where they're going to go to get the stuff they want to loot. They know that there can never be enough police to cover everywhere so by their estimation many of them will get away with it.

Some fools are even posting photos of themselves online holding the stolen goods. This shows their mentatility!

Whatever might have created the initial spark there is never any excuse for all this, it's just gangs using the original turmoil as an excuse, they have no cause, no justification, they're just plain and simple thugs and thieves!

What makes this a double-tragedy is that these thugs are not just stealing things and smashing places up, they are also stealing the attention from the cause that the original peaceful protest was about. They are turning outrage at police brutality into a story about thugs rioting, that's an even more immoral theft in my eyes that the stuff they are taking and breaking.

B.

 

[Giangiacomo]

Doesn't seem to be so much a reaction to so-called police brutality as gangs out to loot whatever they can, injuring police and terrorising shopkeepers and residents. I haven't heard a single complaint against the police on the news from ordinary residents of the areas involved, except to lament the lack of police and the slowness of the police response. Before taking sides we should wait to hear the report into the original killing; some say an innocent man and others a gangster who actually used a weapon against the police who tried to take him into custody.

 

[Tjerk12]

As a Dutchman I cannot judge about the situation in England. But history learns that problems aren't normally that simple. In The Netherlands (in 1970) marines had a big fight with provo's and kabouters, who were peacefully sitting on the Dam in Amsterdam. In England they had severe problems in 1981, 1985 and 1995 (Racial riots in Brixton). And in June 2001 the same problems in Burnley, Stoke on Trent and Bradford. And just a while ago Prince Charles got in trouble by protesting students. I think it would be wise not to search for simple reasons. Society is complex.

 

[Squallmuzza]

As far as the original killing goes, the man definitely did not shoot at the police at all.

HOWEVER this isn't the matter at hand. The rioting spurred from the protest march the following day which was intended to be entirely peaceful until the police took things too far and got out of hand. This is why people are fighting.

 

[777]

I think the real roots here are in social injustice, unemployment, the feelings of hopelessness and frustration... Instead of doing things that would actually help people there are just more and more ways for employers to get away without paying decent wages, giving decent hours, less social security etc... and I don't think they really expect the reaction to be different, considering how the only reactions seems to be on stricter laws on demonstrations, stop and searches, police violence... it's the same elsewhere too.

 

[XMan101]

I'm quite sure those innocent people who have had their homes or businesses destroyed by these thugs will take comfort from knowing they might have had a reason!

It's getting worse tonight, even spreading out to the Surrey suburbs and right up to Birmingham in the Midlands! This isn't just a simple protest or even looting, the places are burning and as far as I'm concerned anything like this is unforgivable even if there might just be a genuine grievance.

Nobody can have any sympathy for the bastards that burn down innocent people's homes and terrify neighborhoods.

If this escalates any more there'll be no choice but to bring the army out! The police don't seem to be able to cope on their own.

225 arrested now in London and 87 in Birmingham.

 

[gb2000ie]

I've been thinking about this a lot today - and rioting like this is not justified and it should not be reported on as being in any way justifiable. These rioters have ZERO right to do what they are doing ZERO!

They are not fighting the police, or standing up to the police, or protesting the police, they are destroying the lives of totally innocent people for personal gain and pleasure. That is immoral and frankly evil. I don't give a shit what wrongs exist in society, that does not make thuggery OK!

Yes, there are people with real grievances against the police, people who I whole-heartedly agree with, but those were the people in the peaceful protests, not these criminals!
Ghandi had the right idea for dealing with British Government opression, not the IRA!

The longer this goes on the more I have to distance myself from these bastards, and the more I have to agree with the reporting I've been hearing on the news here in Ireland. We are hearing about the peaceful protest, and the innocent man who died in police hands, but we are also hearing that these riots have nothing to do with that and are purely opportunistic.

B.

 

[hawtsean]

I've been thinking about this a lot today - and rioting like this is not justified and it should not be reported on as being in any way justifiable. These rioters have ZERO right to do what they are doing ZERO!

And the damnable part of it all is that, when police attempt to do anything, they are attacked with total abandon and either have to use extraordinary force to put the riot down - or just leave it go and gain their own safety.

Of course, it's a confrontation that is desired by these lawless assholes. They want to see the cops draw blood, so that some of the idiot battalions among the media can make their phony self-righteous pronouncements about police brutality. There can be no denial that there are times when officers of the law take measures outside the law, and those instances must be dealt with to maintain public confidence in the justice system. However it's quite another thing entirely when massive property damage and mayhem are caused for no reason other than intentional extreme provocation.

 

[gb2000ie]

I'm watching live coverage now, and this is not a protest, not at all - this is out-right thuggery targeting innocent people and stealing for personal gain.

It's at times like this that I know I couldn't be a police officer because I'd just open fire with plastic bullets and tear gas. I can't bear this kind of evil wanton destruction. It's just so unjust and wrong, and there's nothing that gets my blood boiling like injustice!

B.

 

[hawtsean]

I'm watching live coverage now, and this is not a protest, not at all - this is out-right thuggery targeting innocent people and stealing for personal gain.

It's at times like this that I know I couldn't be a police officer because I'd just open fire with plastic bullets and tear gas. I can't bear this kind of evil wanton destruction. It's just so unjust and wrong, and there's nothing that gets my blood boiling like injustice!

B.

With you totally, Bart. Seeing stuff like this makes my blood boil, and want to do serious hurt to the perpetrators. I would also want to deal with every stinking phony journalist who writes diatribes accusing authority of overstepping bounds, while never reporting the truth about these intentional mayhem incidents. Tying them up inside a store that is being looted and burned to the ground seems a fair recompense............but then that just puts me at the low s level of the rioters.

No way to win, it seems.