Suggestion please.

[RefixnarcisM]

Hello there,
As you might know-if you dont then that is fine with me-Im writing a novel, some dark romance genre. Im kinda newbie in this writing novel thingy and I really know that Im not good with some wise or encouraging words, so I need your help to give me some wise and encouraging words.
The case is this. Every single person, no matter how really bad he was, deserves some second chance. Well, this guy have show that he is a different person from what he was. Some people can accept him, some doesn't. But the main issue is, he still think that all his effort to be better is not enough. He punish himself hardly for what he had done. Mentally. The question is what words can you give to him so he can forgive himself because if he keep on like that, he cant move on with his life. He might even ended his life.
Thats all. Sorry to make you confuse with my bad English. Thank you very much!

 

[BigBenni]

First of all, you don't confuse me
Second thing, I really admire people who are creative and I will try to help you

Maybe you could say to this person that he already can be proud on what he managed to restart his life but he needs to continue working hard for his goals that he doesn't come on bad ways again.
You could also say that he needn't any pressure on himself and he just needs patience on the coming things...


Unfortunately I don't know the full story but it sounds interesting and I hope I could give you some little hints maybe there are some more guys who take part on this brainstorming and hopefully we find some more phrases which are useful for you

 

[Tjerk12]

Hi Refix,
So nice to have a brother in arts. I am writing a novel too. Mine is in a way a story like Emile Zola, J'accuse. But in a fairy-tale form. I don't like the materialistic world.
But about your problem. Let him look into a mirror. He can realize that everything is a matter of perception. The reflection in the mirror seems to be his reflection, but actually all is 180 degrees transformed. To see himself he has to feel himself, to go deep into his feelings. Make him realize that his source is good, things went wrong somewhere on the road.
I do hope that you understand what I mean. My English is also very limited. I really couldn't translate my book into English, because everything is about feelings and therefore you need so much skill.

 

[cavonzia]

Trying to help you,but maybe not really good

"It's never been a sin to live in this world,so stand up and believe yourself,someday you'll find the meaning of your life"

btw,good luck on your novel,hope you'll publish it someday

 

[zortek]

hi RefixnarcisM, what i usually try to get someone in this position to realise is that they are judging themselves from a point of view that is unrealistic.

no one is 100% bad, no one 100% good. to be truly honest with themselves they need to look at the whole picture. not just what is bad about themselves, but also see the good parts, so that they can be more honest with themselves and to be able to move forward.

not just what are your faults, but what are you good at. not just what you have done that is wrong, but what have you done that is good. if those around your character do not accept his(?) skewed self image, maybe they can help him move forward.

good luck with your writing

 

[RefixnarcisM]

Thank you all! I finally manage to get the dialog that I want because all of your suggestions. Its quite tear jerking I must say.
The one thing I didnt tell you that the guy who punished himself is a Devil. He's one of the Four Crown Princes From Hell, but because of one thing he lost his power. To get his power back he must kill a chosen Nephilim. But as the time passed, she make him change, they're fell in love and at one time he realise that he just use the girl, all what she's been thru is because of him. Even her destiny to be the chosen one. While the girl finally accept him for who he was, he cant. He punished himself and leave her.
Well thats the little bit spoiler. There are more interesting stuff thou. Many laughter, anger, secrets, tears, love and many things.
And the story was written in Indonesia, but I hope when it get published and the selling was good, Im gonna make the international version. Thats my dream that I keep on holding and working on it. Wish me luck!!

 

[BigBenni]

Your story sounds very similar to the "Flying Dutchman" of Richard Wagner but there the end was that the Dutchman and his chosen girl Senta only could find their salvation in their both deaths. The Dutchman is bloody and has to stray on the sea forever. Only every 7 years he is allowed to go ashore to find a girl who loves him from the bottom of her heart and not in case of mercy. But the Dutchman has only one night to find this girl before he has to go back on the sea and the problem is that he cannot die. He tried everything to end up his life but only Senta is able to help him and like already written they find both their death.

Maybe this little trip to classical music/opera could help as well to finish your work

I wish you best of success :heart:

 

[etilit]

well since you never asked for more than wise and encuraging words...fantastic...wonderfull...great...best ever...ect.ect.ect

anyway..good luck babe lol

 

[RefixnarcisM]

@bigbenni Ah thanks for mentioned that. Yep, there are plenty story like that outside. Thats the challenge, to make the sound like quiche story to be more interesting. I like a sad romantic ending like that...but for my story...hmm...we'll see about that hehehe. About the music, I just keep on listening to a song from Twilight Saga Breaking Dawn soundtrack, Turning Page by Sleeping At Last. Its kinda acoustic orchestra so you might like it as well.
Thanks Benni!

 

[BigBenni]

@RefixnarcisM

Glad I could inspire you Another stuff what comes me in mind is Tristan & Isolde where both find there salvation in a Love-Death. The whole story is about Sun and Night while the Sun is embodied by Isolde and the Night by Tristan and he yearns to death because he thinks only there his fate can be fulfilled. But the story is too big to tell it all here cause I don't want to bore anybody.

The crunch-point is that Tristan & Isolde want to drink poison to die but Isolde's maid exchanged the drinks into a Love-Drink and so the tragedy takes his way because Tristan killed Isolde's former husband and was attacked himself and Isolde is a well know healer and so Tristan went incognito to her to recover when Isolde discovered another wound of Tristan where a splinter fits in from the sword that Tristan used to kill Isolde's husband

It's a bit crazy but the stuff is wonderful and the opera of Wagner is fantastic

Thank you for your advise in case with the soundtrack. I'm an absolute sound fan; comes maybe cause music is my life and I had a really good teacher who taught me many secrets of music and sounding of an orchestra

Maybe the Tristan stuff could be interesting for you as well. I guess a poison drink would fit perfectly in your project, especially when a devil takes place in your story

 

[RefixnarcisM]

Aah nice story. Is it only come into an opera story? Or is it released on books too? But then again, its hard to find a good international translation book like that in Indonesia.
Thank you for the idea, I think there's a place for that on a second book, "Chronicles of The Fallen: The Four Watcher Towers."
Ah, do you ever study a Christian Theology? Or Bible study? I might wanna ask you again about that. But not this time.

 

[BigBenni]

You can write to me every time, I appreciate it Then we talk a bit detailed about these things

Tristan & Isolde is not only an opera, the stuff goes back to the English Saga and I try to find a good translation for you but I'm afraid if I find any it will be in English mostly.

Feel free to ask me. It's a pleasure to talk to somebody who is interested in

I also have another stuff in mind for you but maybe this thread is not the right place - I mean the stuff of "Tannhäuser" - maybe you heard or read about that...

To your question. I never studied Theology or bible. All my knowledge comes from the music because when you occupy with classical music you usually occupy with history, literature and other kind of art

I guess we should talk about that any time. I'm looking forward to that, buddy

Just let me know and have a nice Sunday evening

 

[RefixnarcisM]

Oh thats alright, English would be fine for me...since Im interested in novel first time was Bram Stokers Dracula, thats when Im in highschool. Talkin about a really English text, not an American English, bit confusing with some phrase but still understandable. Im really interested in that Tristan&Isolde so if you have a link like another story that I like Dante Purgatory, you can PM me the link.
About that you tell me that you learn from music. I understand, I also interested on a classical violin play...Mmm....its about a music that been compose by the Devil or a Devil who lend his violin to a violinist. Kinda forgot. Tanhauser? Whats that, never heard it before.
Well since my novel mainly about Angel, Devil, Christianity, I have to learn more about those three point. Although Im not an Christian. Its kinda interesting learn about another religion. Christian Theology, Christian Demonology, Bible. Interesting.
Well then, have a nice evening there!

 

[BigBenni]

I will look for an English translation of the Tristan stuff. I guess you will like it

Tannhäuser is also a great stuff with the goddess Venus and Tannhäuser who is completely torn between the Venusberg full of love and joy and the real world where he has his big love Elisabeth. There is the famous singer-contest(the right meaning is singer-war but I'm not sure whether this translation is right) on the Wartburg what gaves the piece its name. At the beginning Tannhäuser is on the Venusberg and enjoys the full beauty of love and happiness but his yearning to Elisabeth is so huge and by the time he get bored of all the beautiness and so he decides to leave Venus but she offers him that he can come back whenever he wants.

There are the singers of the Wartburg who absolutely despice the Venusberg as a place of sin! It is absolutely forbidden to praise Venus!

Then the father of Elisabeth makes a big celebration where all singers and Tannhäuser are invited to sing about the love. This is the first encounter of Tannhäuser and Elisabeth since Tannhäuser was away for a long time.

While the other singers begin to sing about love Tannhäuser notices that all the others don't have a real imagination of love because only Tannhäuser as a mortal was able to find the way to Venus and discover all the sides of joy and love so he praised Venus in front of all the others and the tragedy takes his way.

Tannhäuser shall follow many pilgrims to Rome to get absolution by the pope but while all the other pilgrims were forgiven only Tannhäuser came back without absolution. Elisabeth prays for him to die for his salvation which is fulfilled and when Tannhäuser wants to go back to Venus who is already appearing, Wolfram a singer and good friend of Tannhäuser wants to hold him back and cries out the name of Elisabeth and Venus disappears immediately. Tannhäuser dies.

The pilgrims arrive the place and bring the bloomed priest-mace as a sign that god himself allowed salvation to Tannhäuser and finally he found already in his death.

The piece ends with a big choir who sings about the peace which goes to every penitent who finally finds salvation and peace.

Well, I hope that wasn't too confusing at all but I guess you are interested in and please feel free to ask anything more if you like.

The operas of Richard Wagner and the used sagas are really complex and have really deep going themes. Parsifal is also a piece which I think could be interesting for you. I only say a few words: The holy grail

I guess we should really discuss with each other

I'm just looking for an English Tristan translation and let you know when I was successful

Have a nice evening/day and hear you soon

 

[RefixnarcisM]

Ooh another story which find salvation in death. Beautiful.
Why do you think that most of a story have the main idea of find salvation in death? And why does there is a salvation if God also gives redemption? I had wonder for those thing a few time after I read Bible and writing.
Redemption or salvation, which one is more important?
Sorry you might confuse by this questions.

 

[BigBenni]

I guess this has something to do with a special way of belief which the people had at these times and in my opinion the term of sin was more difficult than in our times.

To find salvation in death although God gave already redemption has the following meaning to me:

Maybe people who committed sins already died before God could give redemption and the craving to die was sometimes more intense like getting redemption by God and I'm sure many people knew already that their sins were too bad and that they already closed up with their life. I also think this all has to do with transcendence, maybe you agree with me

Another fact is that the death was always a mystical theme and people from every epoch were fascinated by the Death-thought in general.

Wow, this really becomes already philosophical or even theological.

I even could tell you about another huge theme concerning the thought of salvation. That would be Parsifal where you find the first steps what we now would call sect. In Parsifal it is called fraternity but I need to describe the whole thing, otherwise the meaning gets misunderstood.

So if you want I do it next time and please don't worry, I exactly understand your English. Otherwise I would ask you detailed things

I'm curious on your opinion and I hope I could write it best possible to be understood

I already look forward to hearing from you and I hope you already could work on your actual piece and maybe finish it soon.

And to finish my comment here I want to come back to your question what is more important - salvation or redemption

Well I think finally redemption is most important but there are situations where only salvation counts but this is maybe difficult for me to answer because I am not religious, I only can take my answer from the life experience I have and that's the way I think but feel free to ask me more, maybe I didn't got you right.

Lovely regards and hear you soonest

 

[RefixnarcisM]

So do you mean that some people think that they will surely get a redemption by God when they die? Then why God creates Hell if people who have sin will get a redemption or salvation? I heard that people can get redemption if they just commit their sin. Then again, basically if they need a redemption they just need to ask. Thats...kinda odd and simple. But then again, not many people could commit their sin and promise not to do it again. What do you think?
Yes I think you are right, this thread topic is getting deeper to Bible study and Theology. Well still on my novel main topic so I guess its alright hehehe.
Oh anyway I had some kinda stupid thought lol, imagine it that a Devil could get redemption. Would that be possible? Then again, Devil and Fallen Angel or Demon was an Angel, cause they choose the wrong path, they been kick out from Heaven. Do you think theres a possibility like that? A Devil who get redemption.
If not then its sad for my main character.
Thank you.

 

[BigBenni]

So do you mean that some people think that they will surely get a redemption by God when they die?

Not at all. I would maybe say this is a kind of death-yearning.
You know what I mean? I think sometimes the wish of being dead is bigger than the redemption by God.

Buddy, this would be the perfect place to start with the saga of Parsifal because it is also about the desire of being dead. Amfortas, the king of the Grail-Knights has also this wish and only Parsifal is able to deliver Amfortas from all his torture but this just a really short explanation. The Parsifal theme is much deeper and I guess maybe we talk about it as well soon if you like

I heard that people can get redemption if they just commit their sin.

That's completely right and here you have the so called confessional box where people can tell their sins to a priest. This is maybe the best known possibility for that.

I think for your character it could be like with the sagas I told you about "The Fyling Dutchman" and "Parsifal". I think your character needs a person who feels deeply touched by his fate and only this way he can be forgiven. Now you could even bring your novel in another level and think about whether the person who gives your devil redemption was sent by God or whether this person is maybe a metamorphosis of Gos himself...

What do you think about that? I guess this could really become interesting...and I'm curious what you think about it

Lovely regards

 

[RefixnarcisM]

Ooh I see....but there's a two kind of Sin right. The 'still can be forgiven' and not. So the idea of redemption on all Sin was not true right? So does the salvation. Then why Bible keep on mentioning that salvation and redemption. Then again how about Hell? If God could gives redemption or salvation then why He create Hell?
Im interested with that Parsifal, so if you dont mind could you tell me more about it.
About my main character, yes I already have the one who can show him that. She make him change. She make him forgetting all his true intention which is to kill her. She become his world. So he turn to protect her and the world that she live. Although all of Devil will hunt him and he will not be trusted by all Nephilim and Sons of Darkness.

 

[RefixnarcisM]

Do you think a novel like this is to heavy for a teenage? Im making this novel for a teenager although there are some older age who usually interest with this genre.
Oh about the girl who change him. She got all St.Gabriel might in her hand. She's a messiah and that making her most wanted by all Devil either. In the other hand he also make her to finally accept her destiny, to accept her new life, to accept who she is, that she's not a human.