Suggestion please.

[BigBenni]

In general I think nobody is too young for themes like these, it just depends on the interest and I noticed that many young people are interested in this kind of themes.

It became more over the last years but I can't tell you why.

Ooh I see....but there's a two kind of Sin right. The 'still can be forgiven' and not.

You are definitely right with that and for me the most exciting question is:

Who estimates this border where a sin can be forgiven and where not?

You see this is kinda similar to the saga of Tannhäuser which I told you some time ago. There are sins which can be forgiven by granting absolution by a priest maybe and there is the other side of course where never can be forgiven and I think this is the key to find out. Don't you think?

-I hope this wasn't confusing at all because this is really difficult to discribe-

Then why Bible keep on mentioning that salvation and redemption. Then again how about Hell? If God could gives redemption or salvation then why He create Hell?

I think redemption is for those whose sins cannot be forgiven and that they finally find the solution in a redemption - maybe death for example

And salvation seems for people who can be forgiven by God

But the big question stays, where is the border of sins which can be forgiven and which not?

Well, hell means for me to be away from God for all times and never get the support by God any longer and there is even no rescue to escape from hell

There is "The Day of judgement" before you get the decision whether you come to heaven or to hell and when finally your sins are not being forgiven you have this eternal flame in you which means eternal torture and pain because your self-knowledge tells you that you already have lost in heaven

So I think one big point of this decision is also self-knowledge

But I think this can't be enough because I think nobody has this kind of self-knowledge to decide this and if so, I'm sure all people would like to be in heaven and there we have your phrase (Why God created hell?)

I think this maybe is a halfway useful answer but I have to tell you that I really become addicted already to go deeper in this theme and I'm sure when you read this there will be more things to discuss and talk about

As for Parsifal: I will look whether I find maybe an English describtion for you like for Tristan but be sure you will really be interested

To your question in your message: Yes, "The Ring of the Nibelungen" is a nordic saga with Wotan, Hagen etc. and also really exciting

For Parsifal, I try to find a describtion for the saga and for Wagner's opear as well. I guess the comparison could be interesting

I'm looking forward to hearing from you

 

[RefixnarcisM]

I cant wait to answer it tomorrow, so here I am.
Mmm....about your question "Who makes a border between unforgiven Sin and forgiven Sin?" Isnt God's word thru their Apostles or Prophets? Or St.Gabriel as a messenger of God? About that unforgiven Sin, is it that 7 Deadly Sin? But I read this passage on Bible, Matthew 12: 31-32 which is one of the phrase say therefore every Sin would be forgiven except Sin against the Holy Spirit. Then this 7 Deadly Sin become not 'Deadly' anymore right?
I also read something like this: If you can forgive yourself and telling that you love yourself (in a humble way) then all your Sin will be forgiven. The Bible also said the kinda same way in Colossians: 3-13. Thats...kinda off. What do you think?
What in your mind when I ask you about "Blasphemy against God" does it one of 7 Deadly Sin? Pride or Vanity?

 

[RefixnarcisM]

I still had a thoughts on Devil. Not about my book, but more into the Theological stuff.
God makes Angel, just like Men (Human), have their own free will right? Some Angel chose to side with Satan, but some say that they have been deceived. The main question is, why does God only gives a second change (as long with redemption and salvation) to Men only? How about the Fallen Angel? They just make a mistakes from their free will. Everyone makes a mistake. So why they didnt get the same treat like Men? I somehow feel kinda pity on them, then somehow I can feel my character wish, to be forgiven and back to Holy Father in Heaven....Okay I know that kinda silly, and maybe it just only me who think that way (and maybe if Vatican heard this they will set a protest on me LOL). So what do you think?

 

[BigBenni]

...and I just saw your reaction so I will answer directly because we are so deeply in our discussion...


Isnt God's word thru their Apostles or Prophets? Or St.Gabriel as a messenger of God?

I absolutely agree with you but I think you agree with me too when I say that there is much more deeper than the Apostles/Prophets

The 7 Deadly Sins are definitely not to be forgive, I think the title speaks for its own.

But I read this passage on Bible, Matthew 12: 31-32 which is one of the phrase say therefore every Sin would be forgiven except Sin against the Holy Spirit

In my opinion a Sin against Holy Spirit is like a kind of blasphemy, don't you think?
But I think the 7 Deadly Sins are definite terms and there can't be any exception!

I just read about that if somebody is not full aware of his bad acting, then this is NO deadly sin - as well as when the acting wasn't voluntary or weighty enough

I also read something like this: If you can forgive yourself and telling that you love yourself (in a humble way) then all your Sin will be forgiven. The Bible also said the kinda same way in Colossians: 3-13. Thats...kinda off. What do you think?

I think it's really hard to forgive yourself if you definitely know that you sinned, so your phrase seems to mean a way of penance but in my opinion this definitely doesn't work for the 7 Deadly Sins, you know.

What in your mind when I ask you about "Blasphemy against God" does it one of 7 Deadly Sin? Pride or Vanity?

I definitely would say Pride because that means that you are kinda obsessed by the devil or like the Vatican says "Lucifer"

I'm sure you know about that every sin is related to a demon.
If not, let me know, then I can tell you about the several types of demons concerning the 7 Deadly Sins

 

[RefixnarcisM]

Mmm....I think that blasphemy against God is a little bit different from Pride, as in you say that it was an act of obsession with the Devil. I think blasphemy is more like rejecting that God is exist. Questioning His way as you also heard before that "He works in a mysterious way". Then of course blaming God for what happen in our life. That a blasphemy. While Pride is like loving ourselves, disgraced others, feel that Im the only one who better than anyone else, even positioning ourselves like a God. That is Pride.
Every person at least have one or two 7 Deadly Sin, even a Pope. So we wont get a redemption? Oh my...
Mmm....about the Demon that associate with 7 Deadly Sin, yes I already know. I learn a Demonology too while write my books. So thank you.

 

[RefixnarcisM]

Regarding to Parsifal but not only that, more like Theology. Holy Spear. Its actually a spear that kill Jesus Christ when He's been crucified, there is also believe that the spear can granted the owner a mythical power or so. But why does it called Holy Spear since it kill Jesus? Is it because the blood stain? It should be called a Cursed Spear or Unholy Spear cause it make Jesus die. Or is it the concept that Jesus die carrying Men sin to be forgiven then that makes the spear 'holy'? Mmm....minds my phrase, I just cant get the right one to explain it. What do you think?

 

[BigBenni]

Now I find some more time and I want to tell you a more detailed answer:

God makes Angel, just like Men (Human), have their own free will right? Some Angel chose to side with Satan, but some say that they have been deceived.

Well, you know that the devil is a master of deception, just think on Goethe's "Faust", here you have the perfect example of being deceived and I think temptation and curiosity are definitely 2 big reasons and a big chance for the devil to find possible "sacrifices" because there are always people who cannot resist and that's the big deal with the devil. Don't you think?

If I understand the meaning right, Fallen Angels are identified with the so called "Watchers" and are sons of God. I want to take the following phrase I just read:

"The sons of God saw that the daughters of man were attractive. And they took as their wives any they chose"

If I take now your phrase How about the Fallen Angel? They just make a mistakes from their free will. Everyone makes a mistake. I think it's clear that they finally can't be forgiven.

First of all, I don't think your wish is silly because a son of god who sinned of course wants back to heaven but if this was possible then the whole theology and bible had to be written new and then I think the Vatican could be "a bit" angry on you!! lol but I think your question is a really good one and I am curious how theologists would finally see that

Damn, our discussion becomes interesting day by day and I am curious how it continues

Every person at least have one or two 7 Deadly Sin, even a Pope. So we wont get a redemption?

I couldn't have better said and you know what? Only from your phrase, which is absolutely true and right I always wonder whether the whole Vatican is what it seens to be. Don't you think there are also "Black Sheeps"??

I hope you got me right because I don't know the exactly translation of this idiom.

But to come back shortly on your phrase. I agree totally but I want to ask for this reason whether we all are sinners?? When you look on the 7 deadly sins these are also "normal" attributes of people and even for those who are not religious. So I think one could say that in general all people sinned in any way.

I know this sounds maybe a bit crazy but don't you think so?

OK, I maybe should specify this for religious people but my question I want to ask and I'm curious on your point of view

Well, I agree with you and that even a pope has 1 or 2 sins because I'm sure NOBODY can absolutely be totally free from this.
There are already minimalistic situations where you easily can commit a sin and here we are again on the question who estimates when a sin starts and where it ends, don't you think?

Now to the theme of Holy Spear:

It's all right what you said and I think you already wrote the answer yourself.

This spear is holy because it was in direct body contact with Jesus and his blood and I wouldn't call it cursed or stained because it has mythical power like you said already. And in relation to Parsifal only this spear is able to heal the terrible wound of Amfortas (the grail king) as well as the necessary knowledge. I want to take the phrase from Wagner's opera: only a guy who is able to know pity is able to heal Amfortas from his torture

This was just my translation because Wagner's language is so difficult and contains too many old words and they have no real translation but I hope you understand it

But the saga of Parsifal contains much more in case of Kundry and Klingsor who fought against the grail knights and who won the Holy Spear and then hurted Amfortas with this terrible wound and every time when Amfortas reveals teh grail, his torture gets longer but the grail is also necessary to keep the knights alive. Therefore this piece is full of many discussions about death and salvation and Kundry is a kind of key figure because she travels through both worlds. On the one side there are the knights where she is doing penance because she seduced Amfortas so that Klingsor could finally win the Holy Spear and there is Klingsor's magical world with his misterious magic castle and Klingsor forces Kundry with a bane on him

Kundry is also a magic figure and she is damned to travel through all worlds and times and she brings special herbs to Amfortas to ease the wound but of course she knows about Parsifal's role and that only he is able to heal Amfortas and finally Kundry tries to seduce Parsifal in order of Klingsor but when they finally kiss each other Parsifal discovers the whole relations and in a fight with Klingsor he catches the Spear which is thrown on him and then the story takes his end when Parsifal salvates Amfortas and Kundry

This is the famous Good Friday Magic where Parsifal baptises Kundry and where he becomes the new grail king crowned by Gurnemanz, the oldest of the knights (Amfortas has already died and Kundry fulfilled her redemption and got salvation through the baptise and finally dies too)

Damn, this was a huge essay and I hope I could explain the things right and understandable

I'm sure there will be more questions from you and I'm already curious on them

 

[RefixnarcisM]

As you said, I got some thoughts already. Gonna break down one by one.
About the Devil who also known as The Deceiver, he surely have a way to drag Man into Sin by temptation and curiosity, I completely agree. But there are also some thoughts that The Devil is actually God's agent. God gives a permissions for The Devil to tempted Man to have a Sin, to make Man 'worth' to go to Heaven. He command The Devil, without Him, Devil is powerless. So doesnt it mean that its entirely not Devil's fault? People usually blame The Devil for their own bad life, but after you heard this do you still think that its Devil fault? What do you think?
Second. About Fallen Angel. Son of God. Are you sure its not only for Jesus Christ? You know like when you make a crux symbol before praying. Father, Son and The Holy Spirit. Some say like what you just said that they are Sons of God. But some people are just agree that Sons of God was only for Jesus Christ. Which one is right actually?

 

[BigBenni]

In my opinion God can't exist without Devil and Devil can't exist without God.

And as you already said right God commands Devil and without him he is totally powerless!

I would even go a big step further and put the thesis that the Devil is the deep bad side of God and God created the Devil to live out his bad side.

Damn, this is maybe crazy and even could make anybody angry but I'm curious on your opinion my friend.

People usually blame The Devil for their own bad life, but after you heard this do you still think that its Devil fault? What do you think?

I think people are to fast in case with this phrase because they don't want to think about a situation and for this reason it's much easier to say this is all Devil's work. For me this has something to do with self reflection. Don't you think?

Second. About Fallen Angel. Son of God. Are you sure its not only for Jesus Christ? You know like when you make a crux symbol before praying. Father, Son and The Holy Spirit. Some say like what you just said that they are Sons of God. But some people are just agree that Sons of God was only for Jesus Christ. Which one is right actually?

That's a tricky question and I'm not sure at all but I think this only goes for Jesus Christ and for me I never would say I'm a son of God only because I pray or go to church. What do you think about that?

 

[RefixnarcisM]

Still in the second thought. If I took it from your perspective view that Fallen Angel are Sons of God, then why He cant even forgiven His sons Sin? Why does Man got a 'special' treat by getting a redemption from all their Sin? Sons of God is more 'high' than Man which is only made from dirt. Why does He loves Man more than His own son? It just not fair.
Third. About Sin. I agree that there is no one in this world doesn't have Sin, and every Sin we did is actually can be categorized with that 7 Deadly Sin. Example, stealing or corruption it can be categorized for Greed. Angry cause traffic jam, whining it can be categorized by Avarice. So as you said before that theres no redemption for 7 Deadly Sin, knowing this, we surely cant get redemption? Then whats the point by the Bible said that every Sin can be forgiven? Whats the point of praying to Him if we already know that our Sin wouldn't be forgiven?
Oh my...I really good for being a Devil Son am I LOL. Maybe I should join Satanism LOL

 

[RefixnarcisM]

Wait wait, I still havent finish my question for you first post. Ill contact your profiles message once I ready hehehe

 

[RefixnarcisM]

Fourth. When a Sin called a sin and when it doesn't. Hmm...I just read about the difference between doing Sin and doing a mistakes. I guess its fit to your question. A Sin is an act that we know clearly that it was wrong but yet we still doing it. A mistakes...well its just like we mistake took a road that we dont know it will make us lost or something like that. But still sometime we just think that the Sin we did is just a mistake. Mistake is forgiven thou. So it might more safely to think that way. But it all turns back to God, which is sin or mistake.
Hmm...I have some thought about those Fallen Angel again. Mmm....in this case lets put aside about daughters of Men. When Satan deceive them do you think that they really know what they did? Like it could be just a mistakes, they choose the wrong way. What do you think? If so that it considered as a mistake right? So they still can be forgiven. Right?

 

[RefixnarcisM]

Fifth. Holy Spear. I heard something like this 'Everything that kills or harmed the Son of God is good (Im not sure about this word) for the Devil and his Sons of Darkness' then we look back at that spear. The spear killed Jesus Christ, so basically its a 'instrument' of Devil right? If we look back into my phrase. What do you think? Is it still can be called a Holy Spear or should be called Unholy Spear or so.
Oh about that 'black sheep' you might want to read this "Dark History of Pope: Vice, Murder and Corruption in the Vatican by Brenda Ralph Lewis. Its really good and mind blowing.

 

[RefixnarcisM]

Im gonna answer your opinion about relation between God and Devil. As you said, Devil is like the bad side of God, yes Im kinda agree with you for that. But still there is only one High of All right? If you look back into Genesis 3, the Devil as an agent of God seduce Men to eat fruit of knowledge. If the Devil is an agent of God, doesn't that mean God order Devil to do that, seducing Men. Isnt kinda cruel? It was like He is toying with Men soul. No wonders some people say that God is like a child with a ant farm in His aquarium lol
Im agree with that self reflection. I does heard that self reflection is also what Men need to get a redemption. But then again sometimes people keep on dwelling on their past, blame Devil and even God selves for their life.
Im agree with Sons of God are only for Jesus Christ.

 

[BigBenni]

I finally decided to part my answers related to your several thoughts.

That's maybe easier to read and follow because it's not one huge text

So here we go:

Your 2nd thought:

Why does He loves Man more than His own son? It just not fair.

I think here you have again the term of "sacrifice"
Well God says: Be fruitful and multiply but isn't that a pure contradiction in case of his own son? What do you think?

Your 3rd thought:

I try to explain and I hope I do it right...

The point of the Bible you mention I think this is kinda infatuation or blindness. The belief is so strong that we still hope to get redemption till the end although we know that this isn't possible and our belief spends us strength and that's the sense of praying and finally we wait on any sign from God whether we are right or wrong but God let us be in the dark. what do you think about it?

Oh my...I really good for being a Devil Son am I LOL. Maybe I should join Satanism LOL

Be careful with such phrases Well I know how you mean it but maybe other people could misunderstand you

 

[BigBenni]

To your fourth statement:

All you describe in the first part I agree and I just would count it under the big term of -Temptation- because everybody is responsible for his own acting etc.

Fallen Angel:
Well, if we put aside the point "daughter of men" then it is definitely a mistake for me because the Devil created an illusory world to seduce them finally and that can't be a sin in my opinion and finally it can be forgiven.

See, here you have the Parsifal theme again and Klingsor seducing Kundry to do finally things she doesn't want to and Klingsor creates his magic world to influence Kundry in a really bad way but as I told you already this also is related to a bane as well and because it was a mistake by Kundry she gets redemption finally although it is a tragic one... (but I know you like tragic ends )

 

[BigBenni]

Your 5th thought:

I think the most important point is that the Holy Spear was in contact with Jesus. I think there is a little misunderstanding. The Roman captain Longinus checked the death of Jesus with this Spear while Jesus was already nailed on the cross. So the Holy Spear was in contact with the blood and a nail which Jesus was nailed.

For this reason I think one can't say that the Holy Spear is an instrument of Devil. That would really cause problems...

But still there is only one High of All right

This is really questionable in my opinion because nobody knows who or what God is. And to your phrase; surely this is kinda soul toying and like I told you already I think God and Devil are metamorphoses of each other. Don't you think?

 

[RefixnarcisM]

About that quotes from Genesis 1:28, you mean that God chose Man cause He want Man to fill earth with their seed rather than His own son? You know, Nephilim. Mmm....Im not quite understand the connection between my question with Genesis 1:28.
About the Bible and God way. Wouldn't be easy just to tell Man that this is right or this is wrong rather than let us in dark and be Sinned? Is it some kinda test of faith? Or is it just He's behavior toying Man? If He loves Man, He would help Man or guiding Man directly. Is He still disappoint at Man because of The Tree Of Knowledge incident?

 

[RefixnarcisM]

About the Fallen Angel. I think its more wider than that, Satan not only deceive Angels with daughter of Man but also questioning God's way and power. To order all Son of God to kneel down before Adam and Eve, when they know that they are more high that Adam and Eve. I think that the other reason why they follow Satan. Knowing that can you tell that it still a mistake not a Sin?

 

[RefixnarcisM]

Okay then I have satisfied with Holy Spear and Holy Grail. For now. Thank you.
Lets go to other one, Spiritual War. When God order all His son to kneel down to His creation, Adam and Eve, there is one who didnt do it, The Devil. At that time does He condemned Devil to leave Heaven? Or He still forgive the Devil? If He condemned the Devil than how can the Devil go back to Heaven to seduce Adam and Eve? Heaven surely like any other kingdom are heavily guarded right?
Then there's Spiritual War between Sons of Light with St.Michael as the leader and Sons of Darkness with Satan as the leader. If the Devil is God agent then why He let war started? Is He really want Devil which is also, as you said that Devil is His son either, to leave Heaven? The Devil cant do anything without God will right? Why does He want war between His son?