teabagging....... yes or no ?

[Behrluvr]

Behrluvr, I think that treblex's post was just as relevant as all the rest of ours in this thread. I'm waiting for YOUR substantial factual input.

The OP's post was an obvious flame, mean't to elicit an emotional response from gay conservatives.

 

[gb2000ie]

I never said any such thing , those are your words please refrain putting words in my mouth and claiming I said them.

Search for "Liberal media" in your own posts. QED.

 

[gb2000ie]

In case you haven't noticed, the country is already collapsing. The US has what is now an insurmountable debt almost completely incurred in the last 2 1/2 years.

Back up a minute there! You do NOT get to invent your own reality!

Bill Clinton handed Gearge W Bush a budget that was in surplus, so each year the debt was shrinking, and had Bush continued like Clinton, the entire debt would be been gone in a decade or so. Bush did NOT continue like Clinton, he did two things that have ballooned the debt horrifically:

1) He passed supposedly temporary tax cuts that favoured the rich and were not paid for, i.e. the cost of these tax cuts was pilled onto the deficit and hence the debt. These debt-balooning tax cuts are the ones the republicans prevented Obama from allowing to expire, so those claiming the mantle of fiscal conservatism forced Obama to do a VERY fiscally irresponsible thing - to spend money the US does not have, and to add it to the debt. Now, those same people are crying over the debt, but they won't allow Obama to end subsidies for large oil companies or private jets in an attempt to bring down the deficit - that, apparently, is a tax increase. Why should we give a gift to Exon? They post BILLIONS IN PROFITS PER QUARTER! Why exactly should the public pay for corporate jets? How exactly are either of those things fiscally conservative or fiscally responsible?

2) He started two un-paid-for wars, and created a massive new bureaucracy for homeland security. Throughout history, when nations go to war they sell bonds or raise taxes to pay for it. Not GWB, he pilled it all on the debt, and worse still, he insisted it not be counted as part of the deficit, so he massaged the numbers in an Enron sort of way to keep the deficit smaller on paper than it was in reality.

You can't go to war, build up a massive new government bureaucracy, and lower taxes at the same time, that is literally like increasing your spending in the family while your income is dropping and then wondering why the books aren't balancing!

So - Bush turned Clinton's surpluses into deficits AND crashed the economy, and then Obama stepped in.

Did Obama spend money on stimulous? YES! Is that wrong? Heck no! That's what you HAVE to do to save a tanking economy. It's basic basic economics, governments should run surpluses when time are good, and deficits when times are bad. That has the effect of slowing down bubbles and smoothing out rececions, keeping the ups and downs in the economy small. What did Bush do? He ran massive deficits during a boom, so when the recession came, the debt had not shrunk like it should have over the boom, but was already large.

That left Obama with a horrific choice, either do nothing, and let the economy continue to slide, introduce immediate austerity and drive the economy deeper into the hole, or come out with a massive stimulus plan (America is massive so stimulus for it has to be massive too). The problem is that at the time economists like Nobel Prise winner Paul Krugman were showing that the stimulus was half as big as it needed to be to turn the economy around.

So - what did Obama do wrong? His stimulus was too small! Why was it too small? Because the republicans beat him down, and he was stupid enough to cave instead of doing the responsible thing.

What effect does and overly small stimulus have? It does make the bottom of the recession shorter and less bad, but it doesn't trigger a quick recovery, instead it triggers a really really slow recovery, a grinding jobless recovery where corporations still make massive proffits, but they don't invest them because the market is slow and no one will buy their stuff. In other words, we get what we have now, record proffits on wall St. coupled with massive unemployment.

Now - what SHOULD happen when you get it right like many other countries have throughout history? While times are bad you can borrow money cheap, so borrowing for a stimulus plan is not expensive. Then, if you're successful the economy recovers, emoployment goes up, people start spending again, and things take off again. This drives inflation, not bad inflation if you do it right, but enough inflation to bring the economy back onto the 2% per year slope that the fed is meant to aim for, you over-shoot for a few years to make up for the deflation on the way down, and then you stabilise the economy at the ideal 2%. What does that do to the money you borrowed? It shrinks it's value! So, you borrowed it at a low interest rate, and by turning the economy around you have managed to shrink it;s value too, this makes it a very easy debt to pay off that causes no pain, and you have saved the economy and put people back to work.

That didn't happen obviously, and I blame Obama for being a pussy, and the Republicans for being fiscally irresponsible, and putting their political aims above the welfare of the nation but thwarting the needed stimulus efforts.

Remember - this could have been a great depression, but it was 'only' a great recession, thank goodness there was SOME stimulus, even if it was too little too late.

As for running the country, the states which had high growth (until the Obama era that is) are those which have either no income tax, or no sales tax , or were business friendly. AZ, TX, NV,NH. My own socialist state is in death spasm as it only welcomes welfare cheats and illegal border jumpers while being distinctly unfriendly to business, chasing away entreprenneurs.

I'm not intimately familiar with all the states you mention, but TX is fiscally in poor shape because of years of Republican rule, rule during which time the policies the reps and tea party want to try on the nation were tried for real. TX has a large debt, a fare poorly on measures of services provided. Citizens are not served well by their state government in TX. You can't blame Obama for how the Republicans run their states!

The federal government has few legitamite reasons to exist. Guard the coast, deliver the mail and such. It has become a huge greedy monster devouring every last dollar available with the consequence that there are now no dollars available to devour.

Have you looked at the pie chart showing where the federal government spends the VAST majority of it's money? It's on defence, and on pensions, because people who work all their lives have a right to retire with dignity, and not to be forced to eat dog food! The chunk of the pie that goes on discretionary spending is very small, and if you got rid of it entirely it would make a lot of people's lives a lot worse, but would have a negligible effect on the debt. If you're serious about cutting the budget, reverse the MASSIVE increase in funding to the military over the last decade or so, that's where the vast bulk of your tax payer money goes!

B.

 

[gb2000ie]

I am only interested in one point and I addressed it. That is that the liberals and Democrat majority in California voted in favor of Proposition 8, the very same people who were in the booth electing Obama were simultaneously defeating gay marriage in CA.

A point that is flat out wrong!

I've shown you EXACTLY how it works with a really simple example electorate of 11, but you simply refuse to apply your brain!

B.

 

[gb2000ie]

The OP's post was an obvious flame, mean't to elicit an emotional response from gay conservatives.

Or - it was a humorous and satirical post that was supposed to give people a smile.

B.

 

[hawtsean]

The OP's post was an obvious flame, mean't to elicit an emotional response from gay conservatives.

You obviously do not use the word 'flame' as the rest of us do. Inventing one's own dictionary and lexicon, and inventing one's own reality seems to be a continuing thread in your discourses. Reality is going to kick you rather harshly, in a not-so-nice place; when you finally cotton to it. I'll still be here when that happens, to help comfort you - and that's not sarcasm either.

 

[hawtsean]

I never said any such thing , those are your words please refrain putting words in my mouth and claiming I said them.

Behrluvr, at the risk of repeating what gb2000ie stated,

YES YOU DID SAY THOSE THINGS - search your posts, 'cuz we did. No one has put anything in your mouth - except your own two feet, and YOU place them firmly there. Have you tried mint-flavored shoes?

Dude, you gotta stop bending over and making such an obvious target of yourself

 

[hawtsean]

Provocation or diminished grasp?

You run into any thread that disagrees with your politics - call everyone names, insist the whole world is biased against you and your views, insist we're brainwashed and repeat...................... but you run away from the discussion because the facts are not on your side, only the words.
B.

That seems to be the substance of all of Behrluvr's stuff, if it concerns politics. All his other posts regarding sex, kink and related stuff are pretty much sane, normal, and typical for most guys who are into his activities.

Cherry-picking is only applicable to virgin twinks and legal age teens:thumbs up:, not to needed responses, when lengthy posts (of his) slam and accuse, and then a hasty retreat is taken with no validation.

I've still not fully decided if BL is putting us all on to get reactive responses (agent provocateur), or he's really slipped a gear or two in determining reality vs media hype.

 

[hawtsean]

Too outrageous to let these go without my response:

In case you haven't noticed, the country is already collapsing. The US has what is now an insurmountable debt almost completely incurred in the last 2 1/2 years. Unemployment is in the stratosphere, and there is no hope of a recovery.

Yeah? REALITY CHECK!! Well Dubbya started that disgusting trend, and even Fox News and Rush Limbaugh reported it. Go back and find their editorials and see for yourself. Brother Bush begot some bad financial shit, and his cronies denied Obama the means to start correcting it. Let's at least lay the blame at the correct set of feet. And I notice that you are doing reasonably well, able to afford your internet connection and to party and live a decent social life - despite no hope of recovery of the financial straits the USA is in. Something tells me that the no hope theory is more doom and gloom, fostered by the TP folks and some Repubs, to cast doubt on the present administration. Now THERE's a true no hope situation - the Tea Party movement fixing the financial and social structure of the USA.:duh:

The federal government has few legitamite reasons to exist. Guard the coast, deliver the mail and such. It has become a huge greedy monster devouring every last dollar available with the consequence that there are now no dollars available to devour.

Wow, another reality check needed! So Behrluvr, the very party, movements and candidates you so proudly tout as the answer to the problems and the saviors of America, all want to spend more money and screw things up in a worse way (if that were possible) than it is now. I think you are totally confused about what the fed actually does and it's reasons for existence. I will come out and say it plainly - you....like many other Americans...are totally devoid of memory more than 6 months back, and bereft of a knowledge (or maybe an acceptance) of recorded history; and you seem not to know the basics of government and nationhood of the country you claim to love.

This last statement of yours is so monstrously incorrect and just plain foolish that it needed my comment - less others begin to naively believe what you're claimed. Deceased historians around the world are turning over in their graves!

 

[Tom]

Religion and Politics always draw some very heated debates.

Please remember to respect each other and each others views.

 

[hawtsean]

Religion and Politics always draw some very heated debates.

Please remember to respect each other and each others views.

I take your counsel, Tom. My personal ethic revolves around truth, as opposed to deceit, conjecture, supposition, presumption, and unvalidated opinion. If someone wants me to change my views on a given topic, all they need do is present actual proven data. If those facts demonstrate a variance with my beliefs on a subject, that I'd have to change my mind and adopt the reality that is proven. Truth, proven facts. I won't bother to consider anything else. Sure, I like hearing opinions that track with mine, and also those that differ...............but they remain opinions and not truth. I'll listen to anyone and debate the issues raised, but retain the right to differ and ask them to prove their hypotheses. If they balk at that, I then know that they haven't done their homework and are merely repeating what they've heard elsewhere, without examining it for truth.

[jeez I sound like a courtroom lawyer }

Until valid stuff comes forth on any topic (and I research widely to find out all kinds of stuff), I simply file all assertions on those issues as in the "maybe, but not yet proven" category.

 

[gb2000ie]

Religion and Politics always draw some very heated debates.

Please remember to respect each other and each others views.

Of course every person on this board deserves to be treated with respect, but who made opinions sacred? Opinions are to be discussed and challenged, and they are NOT all as valid as each other! Opinions based on lies and half-truths are worthless, while those based on a solid foundation of truth have great value.

Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but no one is entitled to have their opinions go unchallenged!

Besides, what's the point of a discussion if we all just have to agree to every bit to twaddle someone puts out as an opinion? It'd be a short, boring, and utterly pointless discussion!

If you think this thread has crossed the line into personal insults instead of a discussion, then I whole heartedly apologise for any role I've played in that, but I'm not prepared to agree that opinions are sacred and must not be challenged.

B.

 

[Tom]

No one was out of line at all. I wanted to just give a friendly reminder is all.

In the past similar post eventually led to personal attacks, and I just don't want to see that happen.

It has been a while since I've had the opportunity to be in the general discussions so I'm not as familiar with everyone as I once was.
Forgive me if you that I was talking directly to anyone in particular.

 

[jeansGuyOZ]

More American politics (yawn)

I was hoping for a discussion about the fetish known as teabagging, even though I don't understand why people make such a big deal about it. Still, I guess if you have the fetish you have the fetish, and trying to explain to someone who doesn't have the fetish is a lost cause, like trying to explain why I like tight jeans to someone who doesn't give a toss about whether they wear jeans or a floursack.

 

[kidkaroo]

Drat, also thought it had to do with the fetish known as teabagging. As you were. JeansGuyOZ lOVE your jeans. Congrats on the Brisbane Red's victory over the Crusaders - that is if you follow rugby. Dan Carter is a hottie, but I was supporting the Reds.

 

[treblex635]

I'm not sure what the PC definition of teabagging is.....perhaps someone could enlighten us.

The impression I have is that it involves rubbing one's scrotum in the face of another......generally a frat brother who has passed out from overindulging, if you can believe the pron clips.

This seems rather pointless.

Seems to me that a proper teabagging should be between conscious :hug: partners and preliminary to a passionate and leisurely fondling and suckling.....

which is, of course, but one phase of soul-stirring foreplay.

Teabagging...... a minor but essential titillating P turgidifier.

 

[gabug01]

I also agree that shipping out jobs to overseas cheap labor is shortsighted. Once all jobs in America are low wage paying who will be able to afford a life of excess? It will be all about the bacis: food, clothing, shelter and gasoline, nothing else.

 

[hawtsean]

I'm not sure what the PC definition of teabagging is.....perhaps someone could enlighten us.

The impression I have is that it involves rubbing one's scrotum in the face of another......generally a frat brother who has passed out from overindulging,.

That's exactly what it is - but the teabagging discussed in the main part of this thread was a political statement.

 

[gb2000ie]

I also agree that shipping out jobs to overseas cheap labor is shortsighted. Once all jobs in America are low wage paying who will be able to afford a life of excess? It will be all about the bacis: food, clothing, shelter and gasoline, nothing else.

Exactly! It's killing the goose that laid the golden eggs!

B.

 

[treblex635]

What is fiscal conservatism........

The current American financial crisis was created by the avaricious element in our society (primarily republicans....... and their drones) in a deliberate attempt to crash our economy while aculating the lion's share of a wealth imbalance not seen in this country since the era of the Robber Barons. This effectively destroys the middle class and makes the overwhelming majority of the American public subject the whims of this ruling class. To this end they have raised hysteria among the peasantry through fear of Godless Ho-Mo-Sexuals, 'Culud' People, Mud People, Femy-Nazis, Welfare Cheats, and anyone else who might get something the peasantry feels they should not.

A primary target has always been the Tax-And-Spend Democrats / Liberals.

This is all a smokescreen. Behind the curtain we find that the true culprits are the Borrow-And-Borrow-And-Spend Republicans.

The record on who has borrowed our way into this hole is clear. Since at least the reign of Ray Gun of Alzheimer and followed by a redoubled effort during the reign of Geo Dubious XLIII, The Pretender, there has been a deliberate effort to bankrupt this country whilst lining the pockets of the Traitorous Avaricious.

Wikipedia has provided a chart summarizing National Debt in relation to all presidential terms from Harry Truman and the end of WWII to the present.

Who were the BIGGEST borrowers?From Wikipedia - http://anonym.to/?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_debt_by_U.S._presidential_terms

Actually things were going swimmingly in the era of mutual respect and patriotic primacy. With the installation of the Alzheimer-Addled Ray Gun and his message of Cowboy Hate, everything went out of control, and then with Dubious, The-Frat-Boy-Who-Couldn't, and his Regent, Cheney of the Sneer, with their War Of Choice in Iraq, contempt for Our Peasant Class, with it's gullibility and readiness to hate, became standard government policy, promulgated through their spokesmen and publicists, Faux Nooze and Rush of Oxycontin. (The gullible peasantry thought they were talking about the other guys and rushed to grease-up and bend over.)

A short video from YouTube illustrates this chart nicely for those of us, like Little Lulu, who are more visually oriented and like to have things explained to us.


Where did this debt come from?
A brief explanation :


What is conservative about replacing democracy with corporate privatization

What is conservative about the destruction of the middle class


:thinking::?:?:?