The Silent Minority

[W!nston]

:agree:

 

[trencherman]

I think it's a bit ridiculous to talk about the evil nationalists in Europe (and they are truly evil !) and to forget about the tea party and GOP in the sweet US of A ...

Or similarly, of Islamic Fundamentalism. They are all expression of willful ignorance and blindness.

 

[warp9]

what do you know about Germany ? it appears not much !

Well, I was only born and live here ...

 

[Frenchgerman]

Well, I was only born and live here ...

then your experiences are different then mine !

 

[Shelter]

In the interest of full disclosure let me re-iterate I am a liberal Gay man who believes in equality for all and generosity for those less fortunate. I am not a right-wing extremist.

However I do think there should be some measure of respect shown for a country and it's culture when that country opens it's doors as the famous quote from Emma Lazarus says:



If one dares speak in opposition to giving great latitude to cultural reformations then one runs the risk of being classified as a right-wing or Nazi sympathizer. If that's the case then so be it. The tide of public opinion turns quickly and sometime in the future opinions will change with that tide.

If you live in a country that is as open as America you have to expect change. Many countries are not subject to the swift changes we have in America. Citizens of those countries may have academic understanding of those changes but that is a poor substitute for living through those changes personally.

I'm not sure how many members of GH lived through the Nazi era in Europe. Maybe there are some and maybe they will add their personal experiences to discussions such as this.

The Nazi era was without a doubt one of the worst times for Europeans in centuries. It shouldn't be compared to other eras lightly or without good reason.

:agree::agree::agree::agree::agree:

A great post - thank you so much Sniffit. You are totally right: today if you dare to have another opinion than the official leftist opinion, at once you will be hit with the Nazi-bat or you will be reviled as a Nazi itself. Everyone shall have only one opinion - namely the official predefined opinion. And if you will have your own opinion you are a Nazi! That is an assault against the freedom of expression.

 

[Shelter]

Well, I was only born and live here ...

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

GREAT - GREAT - GREAT - I hoped that this answer was coming!

 

[Shelter]

the society has to make an effort to assimilate the newcomers. These cannot assimilate themselves. They can facilitate but the end depends on how they are viewed.

What Shelter wrote ist in my humble opinion a lot of bullshit - sorry ! He was right for the first generation. They had other problems more important than integration into the German society : survival !
But they educated their children in German schools and made every effort to be integrated. Their goal was reached with their children ! They are German, they feel German, they think German and most of them don't want to return to the 'Heimat' of the parents - even if that is the goal of the parents ...

About the concentration of immigrants in certain section of the cities ... He forgot to tell that this sections were deserted by the 'nativ Germans' because of the neighborhood : trains stations, industrial sites, etc The flats occupied by these then immigrants were not up to the standard the 'nativ Germans' demanded.
But these immigrants did what they could to better their living conditions and nowadays, those city sections are ones of the most search after by the young(er) generations.

Once more to this "Bullshit"-post:
Dear Friend read once more what you have written here and if always you will sell this as true than you will live in a very special part of Germany. Perhaps over your city, town or village is a giant cheese dome.

Or you are really a very, very good comedian and I haven't catched on to the wit! ~X(

 

[W!nston]

you're absolutely right but I was waiting for a reply to my question because I read a sort of hostility against immigrants between the lines of this thread and I don't like generalisation, please correct me if I misunderstood...

Apparently I missed reading a few posts yesterday.

I assume the 'question' you are referring to is about 'what should we do with immigrants' or something like that. I think immigrants should be allowed to apply for legal immigration then help them learn the language and adapt to the culture of their new home. That's not to say they must abandon their native language or culture but there should be an understanding that in order to 'integrate' into a new society, culture and workforce they must learn the host countries language and adapt the the new culture.

There should be a better 'blending' of cultures than what happens now. In the USA, in my home state and home town there are pockets of immigrant neighborhoods with small businesses the locals gravitate to. They speak little or no English. People like myself need not shop there because the language barrier is in the way. I don't speak their language and they've moved here and have not made the transition to English nor do they appear to want to do so.

The problems associated with the language barrier spread from education, work, health care, policing and on and on. Whose paying for the costs of these problems? Taxpayers. I wouldn't mind paying for language lessons for all immigrants. A basic fluency in English should be known within the first year or two of living here. My nephew married a woman from Switzerland. They moved to Bonn. He was given German lessons from the start and he understood he had to learn the language to get a job and be a good citizen. He is now fluent and has a high paying job.

I don't know your situation just as you don't know mine. If I make generalizations I guess that makes me a bad person in your opinion. But I've lived a long time and I've learned that 'stereotypes' - even Gay stereotypes - are based on observations and facts even if they are unflattering and hurtful. I don't like Gay stereotypes but I accept that the flamboyant and promiscuous Gay stereotype exists because I know a lot of Gay men who fit that description. That doesn't mean they are bad people it just means they do dress and act flamboyantly and they are on Grndr everyday looking for a new anonymous sex partner. That is a fact. If you deny that fact then you are only fooling yourself. The same goes for most other stereotypes across the board. You will learn this lesson if you live long enough my friend

I never said we should 'send them back' to their home land. So please refrain from putting words in my mouth. My foot is usually already in my mouth so there's not enough room for your words too

 

[W!nston]

The 'other words' I referred to were "Should we send them back to their home country?"

Your comments were benign and I knew that. The 'putting words in my mouth' wasn't meant to suggest you were making a personal attack it was a figure of speech used in conjunction with 'my foot is usually in my mouth' as a joke. I was trying to make a little joke apparently unsuccessfully

If my attempt at being clever was poorly executed I apologize my friend

 

[Frenchgerman]

Once more to this "Bullshit"-post:
Dear Friend read once more what you have written here and if always you will sell this as true than you will live in a very special part of Germany. Perhaps over your city, town or village is a giant cheese dome.

Or you are really a very, very good comedian and I haven't catched on to the wit! ~X(

Even if today I live in France, I was born and raised in the 'left Rhineland' (do the english-speakers use this term ?) ... Linker Niederhein ... as say the Germans, halfway between Düsseldorf and the Dutch border.
My father whom I visit on a frequent basis still lives there.

he was an insurance agent I dealt daily with the Turkish, Italian, Spanish communities and even if the parents German was poor, they always talked about their children and the German school they were going to and their achievements.
Later I met these 'children' and they were everything their parents told us.

When I started adult life in Düsseldorf and Cologne, there were activ immigrants communities without much problems.
Entire sections of these cities were immigrants enclaves in a German city - without problems.

So no, there is no dome above my home town and neither are domes above those international known cities.

You my friend shelter, made the mistake of 'generalization'. You've thrown entire populations in a bag (in einen Topf geworfen) without distinction.

I concede however that the word "bullshit" is a bit harsh. You are entitled to your opinion like anyone else. But I do have the right to think what I want, even if this hurts you !

But sadly, your opinion is nowadays fairly mainstream in Germany and France too.

 

[warp9]

then your experiences are different then mine !

This is possible, of course. If you live in the country, you see and hear this probably not so often as in the town. I live in a bigger town, and I hear this, believe me, nearly several times on the day. And it increases constantly. More than half of my friends come from Syria, Egypt, Somalia, Sudan, Afganistan, Iraq, Iran, Morocco - and they are annoyed just like me about this.

 

[Frenchgerman]

This is possible, of course. If you live in the country, you see and hear this probably not so often as in the town. I live in a bigger town, and I hear this, believe me, nearly several times on the day. And it increases constantly. More than half of my friends come from Syria, Egypt, Somalia, Sudan, Afganistan, Iraq, Iran, Morocco - and they are annoyed just like me about this.

living in a town with a population of 100.000, with to major cities with 300.000 a mere 10km away and Düsseldorf at 30km ... that's not living in the country !

 

[warp9]

living in a town with a population of 100.000, with to major cities with 300.000 a mere 10km away and Düsseldorf at 30km ... that's not living in the country !

Well, for me, it is the country and I know Düsseldorf very well - you hear that very often in this town ...

 

[Frenchgerman]

Well, for me, it is the country and I know Düsseldorf very well - you hear that very often in this town ...

the country ? no doubt, you must be joking !!! it's the densest population in Germany !


and what do you mean by 'you hear that very often in this town' ?




if you are really talking about the 'country', try where I live in France ... A tiny village with a population of 57 !
The 'town' is a episcopal siege with 5000 inhabitants, the 'real' town nearest is about 35km away, population 25.000 !
My first neighbor is at 500m ...

 

[warp9]

the country ? no doubt, you must be joking !!! it's the densest population in Germany !


and what do you mean by 'you hear that very often in this town' ?




if you are really talking about the 'country', try where I live in France ... A tiny village with a population of 57 !
The 'town' is a episcopal siege with 5000 inhabitants, the 'real' town nearest is about 35km away, population 25.000 !
My first neighbor is at 500m ...

Maybe you havn't seen the "" - and "what do you mean by 'you hear that very often in this town' ?" Well. I mean, that I hear that very often in this town.

 

[Frenchgerman]

today march 4th 2015, an illegal immigrant is honored for his accomplishments in his job : the french secretary of state for trading and handicraft will present a diploma to a young Albanian, illegally in France.
The ceremony will be held at Palais du Luxembourg, siege of the French Senat, with the benediction of its president.

The secretary stated that 'excellence on the job is one way of integration' ...