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gb2000ie

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American businesses spent $2 billion, last year, to comply with federal regulations.

SPENT - so that is economic activity, that money was used buying products and services, so it does not take money out of the economy, it's PART of the economy. ALL spending is economic activity, even the stuff your economic religion makes you hate.

That money was also not wasted, it went towards protecting American people from various horrible dangers. People seem to have FAR too short of a memory, before regulations, RIVERS WERE SO POLLUTED THEY CAUGHT FIRE!!! Air was so dirty millions died needlessly from breathing disorders. Not to mention deadly chemicals.

That is not lost money, it is money invested in the betterment of all our lives!

Part of that was lost time working toward compliance rather than doing the business that they do. Do we really want businesses to supply Obama with money to be pissed away on his buddies or do we want American businesses to operate providing goods and services to the American people and hiring people again?

False dichotomy! Nice try, but I have a more developed brain than that.

We know that the Bush tax cuts gave us record amounts of revenue than ever before in our history. We had a $161 billion deficit and shrinking before the democrats took congress and before the shit of free home loans for people with no income hit the fan. Revenue isn't the problem right now. A lack of economic growth is the problem and the Obama WH is standing in the way of it. He could've turned this boat around two years ago if he really wanted to.

That's some very interesting revisionism. No mention at all of the fact that Clinton left bush with a SURPLUS! Bush did not shrink deficits, he inverted a surplus into a deficit, and added two un-paid tax cuts, un-paid for medicare part D, and two wars to the national debt - he was ficscally irresponsible.

ANYONE can go on a binge by spending more money than you have - yes, economic times were good for a while under Bush, but when you throw trillions of borrowed money into an economy, of course it will boom! Also, the economy did well under Clinton too, despite cutting the debt, turning the deficit into a surplus, and doing so by being fiscally responsible and raising taxes so that more money was not being spent that was being earned. (I believe that's what deficit hawks want?)

Are you really better off than you were four years ago? Is the country? Shouldn't we have responsible adults leading the country instead of an incompetent boob unfit to lead a johnny detail?

Presidents are not magicians! Economies are like oil tankers. The collapse was WELL under-way when Bush left office, and it was caused by his lack of regulation and failure to nip it in the bud. What we've had for the last four years is a stimulous that was too small, and that we knew would be too small before it was even voted on, and before we even knew for sure how deep the recession was, followed by political nihalism by the Republcians crippling government and making it unable to act.

The failure to pass much needed stimulus and an even more needed jobs bill (of entirely republican ideas) because of Republican obstructionism is certainly slowing recovery, and may well allow the US to slide into a double-dip recession.

Do you really want four more years of this? Can we handle four more years of a president who doesn't give a damn about unemployment unless he can exploit it to spend more money? How much longer are we going to prove that he's right in thinking we're that stupid?

I want four years of something actually being done! I want to see a jobs bill made up of entirely Republican ideas not filibustered by republicans - I want to see much-needed action instead of obstructionism. There is plenty of blame to go around here, to pile it all on Obama is partisan nonsense. The reality of how the Republicans are sabotaging the economy cannot be ignored.

B.
 

Chubby Cox

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SPENT - so that is economic activity, that money was used buying products and services, so it does not take money out of the economy, it's PART of the economy. ALL spending is economic activity, even the stuff your economic religion makes you hate.

That money went straight to the government. Instead of being used to buy materials or expanding or hiring people, it went straight to Uncle Sugar. Yes, it WAS wasted. No economic growth resulted from it. Zip. Zero. Nada. They gained NOTHING but more spankings from the statists.

That money was also not wasted, it went towards protecting American people from various horrible dangers.

And just what are the dangers of spilled milk? Who had the great idea of treating milk as a hazardous material?

That is not lost money, it is money invested in the betterment of all our lives!


Millions are unemployed, but by damn, they're safe from themselves thanks to the nanny state.


False dichotomy! Nice try, but I have a more developed brain than that.

You're secret is safe with me. Rehashing talking points does not a smart person make.



No mention at all of the fact that Clinton left bush with a SURPLUS! Bush did not shrink deficits, he inverted a surplus into a deficit, and added two un-paid tax cuts, un-paid for medicare part D, and two wars to the national debt - he was ficscally irresponsible.

Who controlled the House, for the most part, while Clinton was President? Yes that's what libs love to crow about. Where the hell is the alleged liberal deficit hawks from back then? From 2004? From 2006? From 2008? I'll concede that Bush wasn't the most responsible, HOWEVER, the highest the deficit ever got was just over $400 billion. It shrank to $161 billion the year the libs took over Congress and it's been exploding ever since. Now it's over $1.3 trillion and the libs who bitched incessantly about $400 billion are not only silent, but they're keen to run up more.

and raising taxes so that more money was not being spent that was being earned. (I believe that's what deficit hawks want?)

Again, who controlled the purse strings? You forgot to mention the tech bubble which existed at the time allowing for revenues IN SPITE OF the higher taxes.



The collapse was WELL under-way when Bush left office, and it was caused by his lack of regulation and failure to nip it in the bud.

Don't forget that libs like Bawney Fwank and Maxine Waters blocked any and all attempts at the regulation of the GSE of Fwank's boyfriend. It's on video, you know.


followed by political nihalism by the Republcians crippling government and making it unable to act.


How long did Obama enjoy a democrat controlled House and Senate? Which Republicans stopped them from doing anything to "fix" the economy?

The failure to pass much needed stimulus and an even more needed jobs bill (of entirely republican ideas) because of Republican obstructionism is certainly slowing recovery, and may well allow the US to slide into a double-dip recession.

Why didn't Obama do anything REMOTELY useful when his party controlled all three branches then? They had to know they couldn't keep it forever. Surely, if they gave a rotten damn, they should've made all that crap priority number one instead of waiting almost 3 years for a jobs bill. And you still have yet to show that any of it is "Republican ideas". P.S. higher taxes "on the rich" is NOT a Republican idea.



I want four years of something actually being done!

Well you've seen about three, why the hell would you vote for more of the same?

I want to see a jobs bill made up of entirely Republican ideas not filibustered by republicans

Sounds like a good reason to vote Republican, don't it?


- I want to see much-needed action instead of obstructionism.


Sounds like a good reason to vote against Obama, don't it?

There is plenty of blame to go around here, to pile it all on Obama is partisan nonsense.

Hmmm. Funny how between 2001 and the present, everything is Bush's fault. Not a damn thing is Obama's fault, even when he signs his name to it. The democrat demands for home loans for people with no income blowing up in all our faces isn't their fault. Their obstruction of GSE regulation isn't their fault. They're just observers sitting in the bleachers. Now THAT'S partisan nonsense. That and "sabotaging the economy".

If there's "plenty of blame to go around", why do you refuse to do so?

The reality of how the Republicans are sabotaging the economy cannot be ignored.

Obviously it can be manufactured for partisan purposes that benefits NONE of the American people.

We had 50 months of economic expansion and 8.1 million jobs created by BIPARTISAN tax cuts. Remember that the tax cuts of 2001 were phased in over a few years. When we were still losing jobs, we had the tax cuts of 2003 that really got everything going. Remember how fast we bounced back from 9/11? Did anybody really see that coming on 9/12? Why can't we go back to those days? Even that amount of spending would be far preferable to what the economic retards the SCOAMF listens to are recommending.

Bottom line is that we can't go on like this anymore. We've tried letting the children play. It didn't work. Instead of plundering American businesses, we need to let them do what they do. They shouldn't have to fear the iron fist of government and should be allowed to go back to making their plans for the future and hiring Americans.

This sounds familiar, don't it?:

Obama's Re-Election Model Is FDR
With the economy sinking in 1937, Roosevelt accused business of sabotage.


http://anonym.to/?http://online.wsj...4576524753805400370.html?mod=rss_opinion_main
 

Chubby Cox

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I want four years of something actually being done! I want to see a jobs bill made up of entirely Republican ideas not filibustered by republicans - I want to see much-needed action instead of obstructionism. There is plenty of blame to go around here, to pile it all on Obama is partisan nonsense. The reality of how the Republicans are sabotaging the economy cannot be ignored.

I can (kinda) get that, albeit not agree with it. Ok. So you want to re-elect a guy whose response to that is to piss and moan? He's supposed to be this great orator who speaks to (not at) the people. So why doesn't he make his case? Where's the leadership? And if the bill is so damn great, why won't his party vote for it? They don't seem to be falling all over each other to get it passed. Sure they make desperate attempts to flail about looking like they want to, but nothing really useful.

The answer must be that there really isn't anything worthwhile in it and this is all Kabuki Theater for election season.
 
I

iSlut

Guest
Some people are unhappy because Obama moved to the center. That was inevitable. He could not achieve anything if he moved to the left. He had to build some consensus or he would have achieved nothing. He doesn't exist in a vacuum.

The GOP choices are horrible. Herman Cain? Get serious. Rick Perry? Get serious. Mittens Romney is the least worst of a terrible crowd but he would be a disaster compared to Obama.

Voting for a third party IMHO is a wasted vote. No third party candidate has ever won a US presidency.

There's just no choice. Vote Obama or vote Stone Age.
 
I

iSlut

Guest
That money went straight to the government. Instead of being used to buy materials or expanding or hiring people, it went straight to Uncle Sugar. Yes, it WAS wasted. No economic growth resulted from it. Zip. Zero. Nada.

Patently 100 percent incorrect. You need to take an introductory course in economics because you clearly don't understand the most fundamental basics.

What can he point to as a success?

Apparently you've never heard the name Osama bin Laden.
 
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Daedalus

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Red (2010) starring Bruce Willis, Helen Mirren and Morgan Freeman.
helen-mirren-machine-gun.jpg
 

gb2000ie

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I want four years of something actually being done! I want to see a jobs bill made up of entirely Republican ideas not filibustered by republicans - I want to see much-needed action instead of obstructionism. There is plenty of blame to go around here, to pile it all on Obama is partisan nonsense. The reality of how the Republicans are sabotaging the economy cannot be ignored.

I can (kinda) get that, albeit not agree with it. Ok. So you want to re-elect a guy whose response to that is to piss and moan? He's supposed to be this great orator who speaks to (not at) the people. So why doesn't he make his case? Where's the leadership? And if the bill is so damn great, why won't his party vote for it? They don't seem to be falling all over each other to get it passed. Sure they make desperate attempts to flail about looking like they want to, but nothing really useful.

The answer must be that there really isn't anything worthwhile in it and this is all Kabuki Theater for election season.

Presidents are not dictators - they don't have infinite power to just make shit happen. Obama has done a lot more than piss and moan, he managed to get SOME stimulus and save the world from a second great depression, he managed to get SOME health reform through so as to at least get a few million more people covered, and to tackle the 'preexisting conditions' death panels run by the insurance companies. He also managed to get at least SOME measures in place to prevent a repeat of the collapse of the economic system.

The problem is not that he did nothing, nor that he didn't have a positive effect, he made the financial disaster less bad than it would have been, but that's not the kind of thing that gets you high praise. Had the republicans simply been happy to let Obama implement their policies, America woudl be in a better place now.

Real politics is about policies not people, so by that measure, the current Republican leadership leave a lot to be desired. Pay-go which was a Republican idea should still be a good idea when Obama agrees with it, as should infrastructure spending etc..

B.
 

gb2000ie

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That money went straight to the government. Instead of being used to buy materials or expanding or hiring people, it went straight to Uncle Sugar. Yes, it WAS wasted. No economic growth resulted from it. Zip. Zero. Nada. They gained NOTHING but more spankings from the statists.

I'm sorry but that is a bare-assed lie! At the VERY VERY VERY least it created jobs. That work was done by people who collected a pay check and used that money to buy shit.

But, there is a LOT more going on than that. Scrubbers for cleaning exhasts don't magically appear from nowhere, they are made in factories by employees, they are installed by engineers who are also being paid. The same is even true of just the monitoring equipment.

That money was also not wasted, it went towards protecting American people from various horrible dangers.

And just what are the dangers of spilled milk? Who had the great idea of treating milk as a hazardous material?

That is a PATHETIC stawman - PATHETIC.

The clean air act, the clean water act, protections from dangerous chemicals, you imply that none of those exist, and that all that exists is a silly out-lyer.

That's so disingenuous that I can't be bothered to read the rest of your tirade. If you can be so intellectually dishonest I'm wasting my electrons on you.

B.
 

Arctictwin

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Red (2010) starring Bruce Willis, Helen Mirren and Morgan Freeman.
helen-mirren-machine-gun.jpg

I love Bruce Willis but didn't get around to seeing this; was it any good? Also, just watched TRON:Legacy and it was far better than I thought it would be.
 

bottombitch

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Facts

gb2000ie;842990[I said:
]Lets apply a little logic instead of religious economic indoctrination.

A liberal citing logic and introducing religion within the first sentence..interesting. Apparently what you call "religious economic indoctrination" is economic theory and common sense in other quarters...nice try.

The last time the financial world was as un-regulated as it is now it caused the great depression, in the wake of that regulation was pub in place to stop the greed of a few destroying the entire nation again. For the last few decades that regulation has been chipped away at, to the point that it was pretty much all gone by the Bush years, and what happens? We get the most catastrophic melt-down since the great depression.

I did not mention regulation. Some regulation is good and needed. Did the SEC do its job? Hell no...last time I checked, the government was running it. Also numerous Democrat administrations have had a chance to "fix" everything...what happened? As for lack of regulation causing the "meltdown" , there are a multitude of factors that caused it..you think putting people in houses they couldn't afford might have something to do with it?

Regulations are looser now than they have been in 80 years, so if, as the free market religion insists, less regulations means more jobs, then why exactly are we in this mess? Given that tax rates are at a historic LOW at the moment, why, if cutting taxes is supposed to make jobs as the free market religion says, are there so few jobs?

All this time into a new administration and you are blaming loose regulations and low taxes for economic decline? Do you think that the current anti-business environment is helpful and encourages business to hire? Businesses have no idea what is coming next and are just waiting it out...maybe we can get another healthcare bill passed?


Economics is not supposed to be a religion, but many in America treat it as such, and the result is that half the country seem to think the solution to this crisis is to do MORE of what caused it. That insane fact-free argument is entirely equivalent to arguing that we need to throw more petrol on the fire to put it out!

Yes, the government does such a good job with our money, we should send them more money so they can keep up the good work. Is 3 trillion not enough? If not please enlighten us as to how much more you need to do it right.


As for governments not being able to do anything, ever hear of the New Deal? Medicare? Medicaid? The EPA (notice how rivers don't catch fire anymore like they did before a REPUBLICAN set up the EPA)?

Wow, are you really citing the New Deal, Medicare & Medicaid as an argument for more government? That was a funny ...right? You might as well have added social security, the post office, Fannie Mae, & Freddie Mac ...


Facts people, facts, they matter!

Yeah right, your interpretation of the "facts". If Liberalism/Socialism works so great, what's up with Europe? Are they just not doing it right?


B.
[/I]

Lovely
 
X

XMan101

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The Town (2010)

Ben Affleck (who is not only good in this but also directed) and a nice appearance from the wonderful late Pete Postlethwaite

Didn't bore me at all in the whole 2 hours. Far better than the usual heist type movies !
 

c750dt

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Masters of The Universe. Man, it's been ages since I laughed as hard as I did watching that movie.
 

slimjim

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I love Bruce Willis but didn't get around to seeing this; was it any good? QUOTE]


Yeah RED is OK.. worth watching if only for the wonderful OTT performance, as ever, by John Malkovich :)
 

zucchero81

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Last movie I saw was Eating out: Drama Camp. Was kind of disappointing... not nearly as funny as the earlier instalments.
 
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