Why does homosexuality exist??

[theseeker]

Hoping not to sound offensive or bigoted or whatever, but has anyone of you ever thought of why homosexuality (or other forms of non-heterosexuality in that matter) exists? I mean, the reason behind heterosexuality is a pretty textbook-type answer: the procreation of a species. But is there a biological or evolutionary reason behind homosexuality and other forms of sexuality?

This is the question I've always wanted to ask, because to be honest, I just find it unfair that some people, good people, like us have to struggle through an issue like this, while many others never ever had to worry about it.

 

[W!nston]

That is the question for us isn't it? Why do we exist? Why are we not like the others?

I've always considered it a gift. I feel no attraction to the opposite sex. That feels like a mark of distinction. It makes me feel somehow called to a higher purpose.

I had a discussion with a female friend once about the differences between men, women and Gays. She is wise beyond her years. She is married with 3 children. Her husband is a good man. Salt of the earth type. She is a dreamer or romantic. She accepts her life as it is and she is proud of her family. She said men have a drive to reproduce as often as possible. Women have a drive to reproduce and to nurture. But Gay men are free of that burden. In her opinion Gay men are 'special' because of that. She is a religious person. She had a near death experience once and said she remembered everything. It was an epiphany for her. She asked me about angels. She asked me if I knew that all angels are male. All of them. She believes Gay men are actually angels on earth. Some Gay men are capable of the greatest good and will sacrifice themselves for others while other Gay men are capable of the greatest evil and will do great harm to others. The same as angels and demons.

I'm not saying she is right. I'm not saying we are angels in the biblical sense. I'm just saying I feel being Gay is a rare gift. We are special. We should conduct ourselves as such.

I think your question is a good one but it falls under the category of 'Some things will remain a mystery'.

So take pride in being Gay as I do. Make your parents proud of your deeds. Show others mercy and compassion. Leave this earth knowing you were among the chosen few.

Sniffit

 

[brmstn69]

Why ask why?

Native Americans had a unique view on homosexuals. They believed they were blessed and possessed two spirits, one male and one female. The "Two Spirit People" were some of the most valued, revered, and respected members of the tribe. The Native Americans never asked why, they just accepted. They understood that sexuality and gender identification covered a broad spectrum going beyond male and female. It was natural, accepted, and even encouraged, without prejudice and without question.

http://www.examiner.com/article/pre-colonial-homosexuality-native-american-gender-roles

 

[ihno]

Hoping not to sound offensive or bigoted or whatever, but has anyone of you ever thought of why homosexuality (or other forms of non-heterosexuality in that matter) exists? I mean, the reason behind heterosexuality is a pretty textbook-type answer: the procreation of a species. But is there a biological or evolutionary reason behind homosexuality and other forms of sexuality?

This is the question I've always wanted to ask, because to be honest, I just find it unfair that some people, good people, like us have to struggle through an issue like this, while many others never ever had to worry about it.

You have a rather anthropocentric view on things. We use to look at nature or evolution as a kind of "person" with a plan and so we think that we have to follow a kind of program: "Find a wife/husband, have children, buy a house and a dog and keep your foregarden clean."

But it doesn't work that way in reality. Our view on human relationships and the straight ideal of love, relationship and family-life is just 200 years old. It was an invention of the romantic age.

In reality there are all kind of different specimens of a species with different abilities and more or less arbitrary characteristics, created by procreation and mutations, most likely following a gaussian curve. That's how evolution works.

You have to take your focus off the individual and focus on a population.
In a population those, who adapt well to their surroundings, pass their characteristics to the next generation.

The sexuality is merely one of those characteristics and like other characteristics there is a wide range. "Nature" doesn't need or "want" every specimen to have children, it's fine if there's a sufficient percentage to have offspring.

 

[gb2000ie]

I've heard two evolutionary theories of why:

1) since gay people don't make more babies, if you have a few of them in a small self-sufficient community then there is more help available per baby. Basically, they gays aren't distracted by their own kids, so they can dedicate their time to making sure the village survives.

2) I don't remember the species, but I remember reading a study that found that the rate of homosexuality in the species was inversely proportional to the population. As the population boomed and the danger of over-population increased, the amount of homosexuality went up, acting as a natural brake. Given how we're seriously over-populating the planet at the moment, we could do with more gays (and, with fewer gays being forced into loveless sham marriages)!

Mind you - I'm not sure there even has to be a 'why'. Evolution is full of lovely little accidents, we could well be another one of them. Mind you, the fact that homosexuality shows up all over the animal kingdom does imply to me that it has a value. Evolutionary accidents that don't provide any benefit to the species tend to die out, not show up in a wide range of species!

B.

 

[gb2000ie]

"Nature" doesn't need or "want" every specimen to have children, it's fine if there's a sufficient percentage to have offspring.

Very well said!

 

[pinklee1]

great question and really great answers!!!!

p
There really does not need to be an answer to this question. We are and we exist. It is the same story for every organic being but all the answers here give pause and good reason to think about this question. I hope many other people with more views on this will post here. I will read them all.

 

[theseeker]

The sexuality is merely one of those characteristics and like other characteristics there is a wide range. "Nature" doesn't need or "want" every specimen to have children, it's fine if there's a sufficient percentage to have offspring.

I don't know, but that just makes me feel even more like an outcast, like we're not important to humanity as a species, and that it's better that the lot of us don't procreate.

Mind you, the fact that homosexuality shows up all over the animal kingdom does imply to me that it has a value. Evolutionary accidents that don't provide any benefit to the species tend to die out, not show up in a wide range of species!

I've heard of that, but what is that value that makes it important enough to be apparent in many other species? Also, the classical idea is that when facing overpopulation, there would be insufficient resources for a species and they would start to die out until an equilibrium is reached. Since all species (humanity aside) already have that kind of check and balance, where does homosexuality come in then?

I'd like to stress again, in no way am I trying to be offensive and such, and I appreciate and respect each and every one of your answers. I just hope that maybe someday, someone might finally convince me that it homosexuality is totally fine, and not a terrifying aspect of life that it appears to me now.

 

[ihno]

I don't know, but that just makes me feel even more like an outcast, like we're not important to humanity as a species, and that it's better that the lot of us don't procreate.

No individual is important to humanity as a species, at least not with 7 billions around. And don't forget that most gay children have straight parents.

Homosexuality is a fact like blond hair or whatever.

I just hope that maybe someday, someone might finally convince me that it homosexuality is totally fine, and not a terrifying aspect of life that it appears to me now.

Of that you have to convince yourself.

 

[gb2000ie]

I just hope that maybe someday, someone might finally convince me that it homosexuality is totally fine, and not a terrifying aspect of life that it appears to me now.

That's not a biological question, but an ethical one.

I don't believe in God, so unsurprisingly, I don't think old legends make a great basis for morality. Morality needs to be founded on something much more solid, and much less intangible. For me, that foundation is simply the minimisation of harm to other people.

So, do gay people cause harm to others? Nope. So it is perfectly fine to be gay? Yup! Is there anything to be ashamed of? Nope.

Something else to bear in mind if some Christians have filled you up to the gills with pointless guilt is that our modern norms are just that, MODERN (i.e. a recent thing)! We have the puritans and the Victorians to thank for a lot of what we now consider to have 'always been true'. If you look a little further back in history you'll find much more liberal views on all aspects of sexuality stretching back through the ages, and around the globe.

My advice is not to ask why gay people exist, but why you assume that's a bad thing? I can find no basis at all for that assumption other than tradition, which is a pretty shitty excuse for oppressing anyone!

B.

 

[Shelter]

That is the question for us isn't it? Why do we exist? Why are we not like the others?

I've always considered it a gift. I feel no attraction to the opposite sex. That feels like a mark of distinction. It makes me feel somehow called to a higher purpose.

I had a discussion with a female friend once about the differences between men, women and Gays. She is wise beyond her years. She is married with 3 children. Her husband is a good man. Salt of the earth type. She is a dreamer or romantic. She accepts her life as it is and she is proud of her family. She said men have a drive to reproduce as often as possible. Women have a drive to reproduce and to nurture. But Gay men are free of that burden. In her opinion Gay men are 'special' because of that. She is a religious person. She had a near death experience once and said she remembered everything. It was an epiphany for her. She asked me about angels. She asked me if I knew that all angels are male. All of them. She believes Gay men are actually angels on earth. Some Gay men are capable of the greatest good and will sacrifice themselves for others while other Gay men are capable of the greatest evil and will do great harm to others. The same as angels and demons.

I'm not saying she is right. I'm not saying we are angels in the biblical sense. I'm just saying I feel being Gay is a rare gift. We are special. We should conduct ourselves as such.

I think your question is a good one but it falls under the category of 'Some things will remain a mystery'.

So take pride in being Gay as I do. Make your parents proud of your deeds. Show others mercy and compassion. Leave this earth knowing you were among the chosen few.

Sniffit

Never ever before I've read or heard such wonderful words as you've written here. Thanks for these words - I don't know if you are right but you have given me a proud feeling. Yes I'm a human being too and I'm worth to be on this earth! Once more my thanks from deep of the bottom of my heart!

 

[gorgik9]

I totally agree with ihno that it's important to step out of the anthropocentric circle, and a good way to do this is to read two great scholarly and scientific books:
- Bruce Bagemihl: Biological exuberance. Animal homosexuality and natural diversity.
- Joan Roughgarden: Evolution's rainbow. Diversity, gender, and sexuality in nature and people.

Theseeker started this thread with the question : Why does homosexuality exist among humans?

Reading Bagemihl and Roughgarden, my anti-question is this: Considering the fact that so many individuals in so many species of many different kind engages in same-sex sexuality, why shouldn't humans engage in same-sex sexuality?
And in particular, considering the fact that same-sex sexuality is very common among primates in general and the great apes in particular, it would be seriously strange if humans didn't engage in same-sex sexuality.
Humans do what bonobos, baboons and Japanese Macaques do. (Not to talk about sexy horndogs like Bighorn Sheep and Bottlenose dolphins)

And in many ways we do it for the same reasons that the primates do it:

As so many other species, human beings live in social groups of varying sizes. I think it's a bad habit to intellectually "jump" from the individual level to the level of the species. Humans don't live in the species, and neither do dog, wolfs, bonobos, seagulls, and bighorn sheep - "species" is a theoretical construct. But we live in social groups, so does humans and everybody else I've been talking about.

As creatures living in social groups, non-procreative sex can be put to so very many intelligent uses.
First of all, non-procreative sex is great fun and pleasurable. It helps us to not die of boordom.
Second, sex is a great tool for making friends and sharing - as all GH members should know
Third, sex helps form social coalitions, i.e. sex is important for political reasons, didn't we know that....

So in my opinion, homosexuality doesn't exist as a biological problem.

 

[Shelter]

gorgik9 a professor at the university couldn't have said it better than you. But what possibilities we will have to answer homophobic attacks. Just a couple of days ago two friends of mine have been beaten to hospital because they kissed each other after they left a bar.

 

[gorgik9]

gorgik9 a professor at the university couldn't have said it better than you. But what possibilities we will have to answer homophobic attacks. Just a couple of days ago two friends of mine have been beaten to hospital because they kissed each other after they left a bar.

I'm so sorry, I'm devastated...and if I could do anything to comfort you and your friends, I would...but, alas, I can't...

But I'm sincerely convinced that - in the long run - scientific and scholarly knowledge about all kinds of sexuality and gender diversity will be strategically important to make western societies a better place.

I said in my earlier post in this thread that homosexuality doesn't exist as a biological problem. To put it in other words : the problem is not
that your friends are "unnatural". The problem is, that the people who attacked your friends are despiccable bigots.

I know, I know this is not much comfort for the moment. But if we ever will be able do something positive about it, the abilty to "place" and name the problem correctly will be of utmost importance. That's my sincere belief.

 

[tonka]

A species long term survival depends on the diversity of the population. What was adaptive in one time or place can be less adaptive in another. There are lots of quirks in human diversity that seem to have no "breeding" value, at least here and now. Maybe they had breeding value in the past or will in the future. Maybe they are just quirks.
Once humans developed civilization, value was turned on its head. The ability to breed...pretty common. The ability to generate trade, commerce, art, knowledge was the value from that time on.

What interests me about human sexuality is how flexible it seems to be. As we move farther away from traditional norms, the range is widening.
Women in western societies seem to be ahead of the curve, but the rest of us are catching up.

 

[topdog]

Why do cats exist? That's what I've always wanted to know. :thinking:

 

[W!nston]

Why do cats exist? That's what I've always wanted to know. :thinking:

I get the joke and humor is always good. Next time maybe throw in a 'jk' or something when the original poster is obviously having self doubts and might be a little sensitive to replies that may seem callous or flippant even if the intention was not so.

Let's be considerate, please...

Sniffit

 

[topdog]

I apologize for being flip.

My thought is - why does anything exist?

Is this a question about process? For that answer we turn to biological chemistry and what we know about DNA replication. The vast majority of nuclear proteins fold in the same patterns over and over again as they replicate - but occasionally something changes. Are there outside forces in the cell that cause this? Sometimes - but not always that we can see. And one change in the protein replication means a change in DNA means a change in gene means a change in the biology of the cell. And if that change is passed on, we have a potential for change in future generations on the organism - in this case a human. So exactly how a specific human trait comes to be is something we only partially understand.

Is this about philosophy? Are you asking what is the value of homosexuality to humanity? On that score, my first thought is that homosexuality does not have to have any value to exist. It's the same as asking what is the value of being left-handed? Red haired? Large nose? Perfect pitch? Introverted? Extroverted? Nothing has to have value to exist. But once it appears, we, being the resourceful species that we are, put these things to use. The value comes not from the trait itself, but from what we do with it.

Is this about religion / morality? In that case the question is, what is your standard for measurement? Among American conservatives, the popular moral template for family life is the nuclear family unit - mother / father + kids. However that is a specific mid-century, post-war definition of family. At the beginning of the 20th century, "family" would also include grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins, etc. - all playing an active role in the lives of the others. In the 21st century, "family" typically includes step-parents, step-children, and non-married partners. Or, to quote a title of a TV show from last year: The New Normal.

So why does homosexuality exist? I don't know. Does there have to be a plan that everything fits neatly into? Even if there is, am I supposed to be able to understand it? My take is that it's here, so enjoy it and make the most of it.

And I still don't know why cats exist. But sometimes they are nice to have around.

 

[skinjo9]

Well having read all of the posts so far, I think that Top dog has narrated the facts very succinctly. I was born in the early fifty's (62 yrs old} and have lived as a gay man through severe intolerance and homophobic societies, my own family being one. But thankfully I see a change in general societies views re Homosexuality. To me it is simply the fact that the gay gene was passed to me to uphold until I die. It is not a problem or UN natural as many species are gay. I blame the puritanical religious bigots over the last 200 years for confusing society with there lies and nonsense about how god created the world. The bible was a very good marketing tool devised by someone back then who could see the power and financial gain that could be made from it, lets face it the pope, Christians, church of England etc are the biggest land owners in the world, even with HenryV111 trying to stop them in the 1590's they still prosper, yet help very few. Financially! And just implant their moral thoughts on anyone who will listen, thereby filling their coffers. Then along came Stephen Hawkins a great brain, to show us all the truth of the creation of the universe and earth. Thank Steven Hawkins for that, as he is my "God" I am an atheist and feel a lot happier with my own beliefs learnt from living life, doing my best by others and trying to educate bigots, straights, vicars and so on as to the true facts of life not there twisted and biased view. I have seen too many of my friends die due to being scared of being gay. Wake up everybody; being yourself what ever sexuality you are is NO REASON to be scared. I have always told my adversaries that the "problem is there's not mine so get a life. By standing proud, and thankful that you are gay is the main stance of life is seems to me. During the 1970's I too held a view that to be able to survive in a purely economical way, it was better to keep my sexuality to myself, as it is nobody else’s business anyway, and my true friends have always accepted me for being me not labelled. and for the last 15 yrs my partner too. I hate labelling people, it’s so judgmental. Nobody has the right to judge anybody else at all, merely reflect on what people either do or say, and form an educated belief from it. Sorry to go on, but I really feel for anybody that still feels in the 21st century that it’s wrong to be homosexual and gay meaning happy. there are a lot of people out there that should have been gay rather than heterosexual when you see what a terrible bad job they are doing bringing up little brats, that turn out to be "gay bashers". So SHELTER I am so glad you asked this question, and so many, many educated and well balanced guys and girls can freely given there input to your question. Simply, it is no more unusual being homosexual rather than heterosexual, bi sexual, lesbian or Trans - sexual, all labels, we are human beings that’s all.
Finally Shelter, BE YOURSELF and don’t let anybody stand in the way of your free right to exist in this multi, cultural, sexual world that we all live in, go to the Mediterranean, most countries have been homosexual for 2000 years plus, they have no problem at all being gay, they reproduce with women and have fun with men, great idea to me. Don’t let Russia bother you either, just another corrupt power mad president who needs removing. Take care of yourself.

 

[fkboy1]

Why does homosexuality exist?
The answer to this question also applies to the following questions.....

Why does light exist?
Why does sound exist?
Why does hunger exist?
Why does thirst exist?
Why do trees exist?
Why does......?

U get my drift??

The answer is, because all of these are meant to be!! All of these are part of what we call 'Nature' or 'Creation'....and Nature is diverse!!
Remember this; if its not natural, it wouldnt exist!! Period.
Homosexuality and other forms of sexual orientation have existed in nature long before organized relgion saw the light of day! Religion was made by man and will wither away one day. Nature, will always exist!

I would also like to bring in a spiritual perspective to this topic, if anyone is interested. I have learned and experienced a lot of stuff through spirituality and definitely would like to share this knowledge for the benefit of those who will take it. I may be criticized or booed for this by some, but that doesn't matter.

We are all souls living in a physical body. All of us incarnate into this world inorder to experience different situations, events, emotions, feelings, and then learn various lessons from those experiences inorder to evolve spiritually!
How one chooses to handle a particular situation that one may face, is entirely left to him/her.......meaning.....the person has complete free will.......and the lesson to be learnt will depend on what the person has chosen to do! In short, the Law of Cause and Effect takes place.
And Pro-creation is by no means the only reason that one incarnates!!
Homosexuality is also a part of that experience that a soul needs to have inorder to learn and grow! If people only understand and accept that, then all will be well.

So accept what you are and learn from it! Each one has the free will to choose......to be happy or to be miserable; it is entirely one's choice!!