WikiLeaks founder Assange the center of worldwide attention

[smallsleepyrascalcat]

@brmstn69

Not we have to go after the politicians, the people of the US have to, but they don't!
Or let's say, they don't blame the right ones. The fact that the Republicans won that much seats in the last election is proof enough that the people of the United States are too dumb to vote.
Why did only Human Right Organisations in other countries call for arresting Bush now, that he admited that he allowed the use of torture? Is it right to torture people just to save other peoples lives? Yes, it is. But your country has a "As long US-lives are saved, everything is allowed" mentality.

Besides that, US soldiers are not that bad payed. They get enough to afford the fees the company takes I make calls for in the evenings (but most of them are just too dumb to pay them before the bills are overdue) and those fees are 25% more then other companies take from Germans... but the soldiers get their support in English. find an employee of the Deutsche Telekom that speaks English!
I talk to US soldiers every day. Some are here for some weeks, some are here waiting to move on to Afghanistan or Iraq and some came back from there and are now in the WTUs.
Yes, I know what this war can make with those poor guys. I remember one guy who was nearly unable to go through the troubleshoot with me, because the longer it took, the more nervous he got because he had to call his mother in 20 Minutes, he always called her at that time of the day and he just couldn't imagine what would happen if he didn't get to call her in time. We fixed the problem and he still had 15 minutes left before he had to talk to her.

I don't know what happened to him that stirred up his mind like that, but when there's someone I blame for that, than it's wheter him nor a taliban nor an Iraqi who want's to liberate his country from an invader.

The reason why so much US soldiers die in Iraq and afganistan is, that the people there learned a lesson from history: If you want the US to leave your country completely, start sending them back in boxes... when the critical mass for the US people is reached they leave on their own.

 

[brmstn69]

@brmstn69

Not we have to go after the politicians, the people of the US have to, but they don't!
Or let's say, they don't blame the right ones. The fact that the Republicans won that much seats in the last election is proof enough that the people of the United States are too dumb to vote.
Why did only Human Right Organisations in other countries call for arresting Bush now, that he admited that he allowed the use of torture? Is it right to torture people just to save other peoples lives? Yes, it is. But your country has a "As long US-lives are saved, everything is allowed" mentality.

Besides that, US soldiers are not that bad payed. They get enough to afford the fees the company takes I make calls for in the evenings (but most of them are just too dumb to pay them before the bills are overdue) and those fees are 25% more then other companies take from Germans... but the soldiers get their support in English. find an employee of the Deutsche Telekom that speaks English!
I talk to US soldiers every day. Some are here for some weeks, some are here waiting to move on to Afghanistan or Iraq and some came back from there and are now in the WTUs.
Yes, I know what this war can make with those poor guys. I remember one guy who was nearly unable to go through the troubleshoot with me, because the longer it took, the more nervous he got because he had to call his mother in 20 Minutes, he always called her at that time of the day and he just couldn't imagine what would happen if he didn't get to call her in time. We fixed the problem and he still had 15 minutes left before he had to talk to her.

I don't know what happened to him that stirred up his mind like that, but when there's someone I blame for that, than it's wheter him nor a taliban nor an Iraqi who want's to liberate his country from an invader.

The reason why so much US soldiers die in Iraq and afganistan is, that the people there learned a lesson from history: If you want the US to leave your country completely, start sending them back in boxes... when the critical mass for the US people is reached they leave on their own.

First of all, many Americans have called for Bush to be held accountable. And it's not that Americans are too stupid to vote, it's just that the political machine has become so corrupted that Americans don't get the option of a good choice. The powers that be, that being corporate America and the political old boys network nominate the candidates and we are left to choose the lesser of two evils. The Republicans winning so many seats in the last election is proof of that. We voted Obama in because of all of his promises for change and the only thing that has changed is that things have gotten worse. Americans went to the polls angry.

These powers that be have become so entrenched that nothing short of a complete revolt and civil war will break their stranglehold on the American government, and as long as they exist, no matter how much we cry for accountability, Bush and his cohorts will remain untouchable. That is unless by some miracle something happens that would make it profitable for them...

And yes, US soldiers are poorly paid. The median income in the US is $40,000 USD a year, roughly the same as the average salary in Germany. The average salary for a US enlisted soldier is between $18,000 - $24,000 USD per year. The reason their bills are overdue isn't because their dumb, it's because their in debt and broke...

And it would also seem that you, like many others are ignorant of the facts.

It is not just the Americans fighting in Afghanistan and Iraq, it's a NATO operation. That means that every country in the European Union is involved and has sent troops there.

Britain, France, Italy, Germany, and many other nations currently have troops deployed in Afghanistan. In fact, Germany has the third largest military contingent in Afghanistan right behind the US and Britain.

Here is a list of Coalition Nations assisting the US and NATO in Afghanistan.
* Albania
* Armenia
* Australia
* Azerbaijan
* Belgium
* Bosnia/Herzegovina
* Bulgaria
* Canada
* Croatia
* Czech Republic
* Denmark
* Djibouti
* Dominican Republic
* Egypt
* El Salvador
* Eritrea
* Estonia
* Ethiopia
* Fiji
* Finland
* France
* Georgia
* Germany
* Greece
* Hungary
* Italy
* Japan
* Jordan
* Kazakhstan
* Kenya
* Kuwait
* Kyrgyzstan
* Latvia
* Lithuania
* Macedonia
* Moldova
* Mongolia
* Morocco
* Nepal
* Netherlands
* New Zealand
* Nicaragua
* Norway
* Pakistan
* Poland
* Portugal
* Qatar
* Republic of Korea
* Romania
* Russia
* Singapore
* Slovak Republic
* Slovenia
* Spain
* Sweden
* Thailand
* Tonga
* Turkey
* Uganda
* Ukraine
* United Kingdom
* Yemen

That we have the most casualties is no surprise because we contribute the most and do most of the dirty work, clearing out the insurgents and securing the areas so that you Europeans can come in and maintain it in relative safety.

And finally, we did not invade Afghanistan.

We are there fighting insurgents.

Insurgent - a person who rises in forcible opposition to lawful authority, esp. a person who engages in armed resistance to a government or to the execution of its laws; rebel.

We are fighting alongside the Afghan army against rebel extremest who are trying to overthrow the legitimate government of Afghanistan.

We were invited...

 

[ritsuka]

It was terrible to read today that Assange has been arrested; he will be extradited to Sweden, and maybe the US will pressure them to give Julian a twenty-five year sentence or something (if the US doesn't wisk him away to some secret prison) for having unsafe sex and not calling the woman the next morning (yes, that is what is being called "rape" in this special, politically motivated case.) That interpol even got involved with charges of that level is extraordinary; but I'm sure it will not stop wikileaks, either way.
__

A wikileaks cable recently revealed that European countries are only in Afghanistan out of deference to the US despite their own weariness, and not for any other reason. Nato is a tool for US interests, and has been ever since the collapse of the soviet union. It is not ignorant to say that this is America's war; I don't see any other countries sending a fresh "surge" of 30,000 or so troops like Obama did, and I don't see the US stopping to ask the other nations to ask their opinions every five minutes either.

But on that subject, I don’t agree that all US soldiers are pawns; at some point, they’ve chosen what they’re doing, and staked out the boundaries of their humanity somewhere. Some resist, some refuse, some conscientiously object; others do not. Some become criminals; some regret what they've done, some don't; some develop an extremely violent, racist ideology while deployed, some had one before they even joined the military; and if we’re talking about the military in general, that includes many people who are making the decisions, who choose to instruct those lower on the military ladder to do terrible things and prolong the conflict. Some go on to join blackwater and earn exorbitant salaries; some come home and receive no mental health or life support. It is a complex matter; but most official outlets in the US refuse to describe "the troops" as anything but 100% great people who are "bravely serving their country," and often times they include the private contractors in that label. The whole "support the troops" dogma dealt a real blow to the movement against the Iraq war from the beginning, which was the point.

I also empathize deeply with the people in Iraq and Afghanistan who have had these things done to them. I didn’t watch that leaked video of the people laughing in the military helicopter in Iraq as they fired on children and journalists and think about how the shooters were victims. Those people slain had family members, and naturally they want some justice, some recognition of what happened; covering up the crimes and lying about them does a disservice to those people. The US government refuses to try top Bush administration officials, and refuses to end the policies themselves; so there is really no other recourse than to yes, go after the individual soldiers involved.

Wikileaks released descriptions of the past; of past military actions in Afghanistan and Iraq; since no one has a time machine, most people fail to see how this is all about aiding someone in attacking the US military. Wikileaks even withheld some doents that were about current positions and tactical information; but really, I don't think any Afgani's were terribly shocked by the logs (those who could read them, that is--of course the people in isolated mountain villages don't have the internet, don't speak English, don't have contact with Kabul or the international community); they've lived under this progrom for nearly a decade now.

It is so much bigger than concerns about the military; this was about educating the world at large, and exposing the crimes committed makes the global push for the end to these wars and bringing the people at the top to justice all the more viable. I don’t think many people are saying that the US government is innocent and these were just the acts of a rogue army. Bradley Manning did something extremely brave; I would say he was probably much better before he was trained to become a cog in the hierarchical killing machine; but instead of dropping some more bombs on strangers from the safety of a plane, he decided to take action to try and stop what was happening on a much larger scale. That is admirable.

 

[smallsleepyrascalcat]

We were invited...

Who invited you there? The government you put in office after you invaded it?

Besides that I'm mainly speaking of Iraq.
But even in Afghanistan we are fighting against people who just are defending their own country. Believe it or not, but the Taliban have more right to be in Afghanistan then the US, they are from there.

And yes, we Germans are in Afghanistan too and the German people would get it's soldiers out of there at once if we could decide it.
And the US have to clear the air for us because of some things that happened a few decades ago. Our constitution forbides our soldiers to attack... in theory. Nowadays we know that sometimes even our guys start the fight.

 

[Daedalus]

FYI



Putin scathing over arrest of WikiLeaks founder Assange
See:
Anonym zu www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/world/2010/1210/1224285193623.html

 

[c750dt]

I read that Mr. Assange is or was scheduled to be moved from prison to a pretty and quaint mansion. That, unfortunately, did not receive so much spot light. The government did the exact opposite of what they should have done if they really wanted Wikileaks gone and now, it's obvious the man was simply being made into an example/diversion. Whether Mr. Assange is a sbag who needs a bullet or a good man who reveals needed info, I say every aspect of this ongoing story reeks of conspiracy.

 

[ritsuka]

I don't think there is any conspiracy; Assange is unfortunately only freed on bail, and will have an ankle bracelet. The US is still scrambling to find legal charges and a way to extradite and lock him up forever, and apparently the UK and Sweden are going to participate in that; but since this is such a public case, they're forced to follow official, legal processes and channels, despite the insane suggestions of some right wing politicians.



Meanwhile, Bradley Manning is still in solitary confinement, and is possibly now being threatened/tortured into claiming that Julian Assange/wikileaks persuaded him to get the data. I've just learned that Bradley Manning is gay and quite hot (see pictures above/below). We shouldn't let the ugly s at the Pentagon murder the most courageous young gay man in the world.

 

[loveless92]

I dont understand why this is all such a big deal. Maybe because he's famous, but all I heard was that the condom he used for sex was broken and that's it.

 

[lacunacoil]

I dont understand why this is all such a big deal. Maybe because he's famous, but all I heard was that the condom he used for sex was broken and that's it.

That seems to be the height of it. Ritsuka seems to want him shipped off and jailed for that. Its always amusing when people in this day and age still don't see how rotten our governments are deep down. Some people are just happy in their ignorance to whats going on. Not a bad way to be, because knowing our governments are corrupt dosen't mean alot when nothing will ever change.

 

[rednaxela]

This may seem weird but I find Assange attractive. Lol

(Combo breaker. Chill a little guys. It's getting a little hot in here.)

 

[smallsleepyrascalcat]

This may seem weird but I find Assange attractive. Lol

(Combo breaker. Chill a little guys. It's getting a little hot in here.)

chacun à son goût

I'd prefer Manning. Assange is so... well, to old for my taste

 

[diklik]

The whole wikileaks/Assange thing is getting very old. I see it this way: Assange started off performing a very needed function that made governments a little more transparent and accountable. I believe he got carried away with his own sense of mission, and went way too bloody far in revealing what could be dangerous info (dangerous in the sense of causing actual harm to people not just a government structure).

It's one thing to out a corrupt minister or other functionaries. It is quite another - and very improper too - to release info that may cause security and national defense risks. Assange cannot hold himself up as the paragon of virtue who takes these decisions to release such classified material, "it ain't his stuff to do", as a buddy of mine says. Anyone who does that, in my view, has crossed way over the boundary line and needs to be silenced (not killed), and jailed. Wikileaks has lost its true momentum and value, and should be shut down without further ado.

The rape thing does seem to be manufactured by the Swedish government, way out of proportion to what Assange is supposed to have done or not done in his intimate acts. However, that may be the only means to muzzle a dog gone bad, if you get my analogy.

 

[darkjimster]

So here is my two cents first America was attack on 9/11 so excuse me if someone attacks me i will protect myself which doesn't mean i like the fact that innocent people are dying/killed in Iraq and Afghanistan

Not we have to go after the politicians, the people of the US have to, but they don't!
Or let's say, they don't blame the right ones. The fact that the Republicans won that much seats in the last election is proof enough that the people of the United States are too dumb to vote.

This would mean that it's the Afghan peoples own fault because they where to dumb to get rid of the Taliban. Which i don't think they are. They are people who have been between a rock and a hard place for many years

But getting back to Assange i think he is as dangerous as the people he's trying to expose the leaks about Holland smells like he is trying to influence our politicians into not participating in Afghanistan (Which i'm against) but it's our governments own decision to make. What Assange is doing feels like a big power trip to me

 

[superglowy]

I think wikileaks is amazing! If you've got nothing to hide, why r u worried?

 

[darkjimster]

I think wikileaks is amazing! If you've got nothing to hide, why r u worried?

You wouldn't have a problem if someone told your secrets to everybody then

 

[superglowy]

You wouldn't have a problem if someone told your secrets to everybody then

When they're covering up major things like a helicopter crashing and killing people and such, no, that stuff shouldn't be covered up!

 

[darkjimster]

When they're covering up major things like a helicopter crashing and killing people and such, no, that stuff shouldn't be covered up!

So will his revelations lead to world peace

 

[loveless92]

I just don't get why this stuff is such a big deal to everyone, I just plain don't give a shit like usual.

 

[ritsuka]

The government is not a "person" who deserves to have private secrets; a government doesn't have an emotional or personal life, what it has is a responsibility to be transparent to the citizens who have elected it into power because there is no democracy without transparency. The Iraq and Afghan war logs have rightly exposed the dishonest propaganda put out by the US government that their war against Afghanistan is righteous and that they are even capable of winning. The US created the taliban in the first place (in order to force the Soviet Union out of Afganistan), but neither the taliban nor Afganistan as a people or a nation were responsible for 9/11.

Furthermore, "the taliban" today is not the same taliban it was ten years ago; and there is a wide resistance against the daily atrocities and humiliations that the US/Nato occupation is committing against the citizens of Afghanistan. The taliban are a local, indigenous movement; naturally they will continue fighting against this occupation, just as they forced out the Soviet Union. The US has no right to kill anyone else in Afganistan; all are innocent. The combined US/Nato presence in the middle east has murdered millions of people since 9/11; but apparently that isn't enough, because the lives of 3,000 Americans are just worth more than a few million poor peasants in the middle east.

Ritsuka seems to want him shipped off and jailed for that.

I just saw this comment, and I'm not sure what you mean? I don't want Assange arrested or detained for these trump charges about unsafe sex. I'm afraid that the US is going to try to extradite and prosecute Assange, which I don't want to happen either. I think that top officials in the bush and obama administrations should be prosecuted for their war crimes, and that whistleblowers like Bradley Manning should have legal immunity.

 

[Daedalus]

The government is not a "person" who deserves to have private secrets; a government doesn't have an emotional or personal life, what it has is a responsibility to be transparent to the citizens who have elected it into power because there is no democracy without transparency. The Iraq and Afghan war logs have rightly exposed the dishonest propaganda put out by the US government that their war against Afghanistan is righteous and that they are even capable of winning. The US created the taliban in the first place (in order to force the Soviet Union out of Afganistan), but neither the taliban nor Afganistan as a people or a nation were responsible for 9/11.

Furthermore, "the taliban" today is not the same taliban it was ten years ago; and there is a wide resistance against the daily atrocities and humiliations that the US/Nato occupation is committing against the citizens of Afghanistan. The taliban are a local, indigenous movement; naturally they will continue fighting against this occupation, just as they forced out the Soviet Union. The US has no right to kill anyone else in Afganistan; all are innocent. The combined US/Nato presence in the middle east has murdered millions of people since 9/11; but apparently that isn't enough, because the lives of 3,000 Americans are just worth more than a few million poor peasants in the middle east.




I just saw this comment, and I'm not sure what you mean? I don't want Assange arrested or detained for these trump charges about unsafe sex. I'm afraid that the US is going to try to extradite and prosecute Assange, which I don't want to happen either. I think that top officials in the bush and obama administrations should be prosecuted for their war crimes, and that whistleblowers like Bradley Manning should have legal immunity.

Well said indeed! Amy Goodman couldn't have put it better herself.