A New Migration Period

[Shelter]

Hi guys this could be again a hot discussed thread. And I think it will be a thread only for Europeans.

In the moment we have a new migration period. People from Africa and from Asia as well as from the Balkans are pouring to thousands and thousands into Europe. There are war refugees from Syria and so on but as well as economic refugees from the Balkans.

Alone in Germany we have got until now 800.000 refugees and until the end of the year it will be more than 1.000.000. We are all members of the so called EU - but there are countries which only want to get the sweet raisins and NO refugees as there are Great Britain, France, Italy, Lithuania, Slowakia and Poland.

What is your opinion to this new migration period from the viewpoint of your respective homecountry?

 

[Sinnerr]

Grant assylum only to those whose life in danger in their home country. and only for the time this danger lasts (for example temporary sanctuary for Syrian people till war ends).
Ecconomical migrants who came illegally sould be sent back immediatelly.

EU is an union af sovereign states. This blackmailing is absolutely disgusting and makes me more and more euro-sceptic.

 

[Sinnerr]

Germany (or anyone) shouldn't expect small countries to pay for irresponsibility of their polititians.

 

[Sinnerr]

btw schengen area is good idea only as long as its outer border isn't like colander.

 

[gb2000ie]

Hi guys this could be again a hot discussed thread. And I think it will be a thread only for Europeans.

In the moment we have a new migration period. People from Africa and from Asia as well as from the Balkans are pouring to thousands and thousands into Europe. There are war refugees from Syria and so on but as well as economic refugees from the Balkans.

Alone in Germany we have got until now 800.000 refugees and until the end of the year it will be more than 1.000.000. We are all members of the so called EU - but there are countries which only want to get the sweet raisins and NO refugees as there are Great Britain, France, Italy, Lithuania, Slowakia and Poland.

What is your opinion to this new migration period from the viewpoint of your respective homecountry?

Firstly - I think the UK is run by a bunch of racists, and their position is deplorable.

Secondly, hearing Merkel say she wants to end schengen is the stupidest thing I've heard in bloody ages.

Britain and German are rich, they can easily afford to lend a helping hand to people who are a LOT worse off.

We remember the European economic migrants to the US as heros, but when others want to come into our countries we pretend economic migration is somehow evil, and different to war refugees.

The country you are born into is PURE CHANCE - why should you live in poverty your whole life because of an accident of birth? And those of us in rich countries, why do we think we have a right to perpetuate massive inequality just because we were lucky enough to be born in a rich country?

Also - how did the rich countries get rich? By exploiting the poor countries - we LITERALLY owe them!

I'm not going to stand for racism against victims of war or poverty. It's about time the rich stopped being such whingers!

B.

 

[bigsal]

This is the tragic consequence of nefarious foreign policies.
Instead of having their own project and a decision-making autonomy, Europe has become a "colony" of the United States, so things for the old continent are going from bad to worse.

Our "friends" who are on the other side of the ocean, at thousands of miles away, and I'm referring to the Presidency, Pentagon, CIA, etc., In recent years they thought only to destabilize all areas from which these waves of refugees , with bombings and maneuvers secret service, which toppled countries, which despite being led by dictators, were certainly more stable of now.

The export of democracy by the US is was a total failure, with the result that to pay the consequences we are Europeans.

 

[bigsal]

Firstly - I think the UK is run by a bunch of racists, and their position is deplorable.

Secondly, hearing Merkel say she wants to end schengen is the stupidest thing I've heard in bloody ages.

Britain and German are rich, they can easily afford to lend a helping hand to people who are a LOT worse off.

We remember the European economic migrants to the US as heros, but when others want to come into our countries we pretend economic migration is somehow evil, and different to war refugees.

The country you are born into is PURE CHANCE - why should you live in poverty your whole life because of an accident of birth? And those of us in rich countries, why do we think we have a right to perpetuate massive inequality just because we were lucky enough to be born in a rich country?

Also - how did the rich countries get rich? By exploiting the poor countries - we LITERALLY owe them!

I'm not going to stand for racism against victims of war or poverty. It's about time the rich stopped being such whingers!

B.

You're right, are hypocrites, especially the British government.

The warmongering former Minister Blair, together with his partner Bush, have ignited the destabilization of the entire area, starting with Iraq.

Still they have to clarify where then were the famous weapons of mass destruction held by Saddam, false pretext to bomb and invade Iraq.
The tragic consequences we see even now, with the birth and expansion of ISIS (another product of US intelligence), not counting the immense carnage of human lives, including thousands of young American soldiers and the western.

 

[topdog]

I can't see any reason why we can't absorb some of these people here in the U.S. (And Canada, Australia, and other countries as well.) I think that if the U.S. and other non-EU nations helped share the burden that not only would it reduce the number of immigrants to any one nation, it would also make Europeans feel less like the whole problem was being arbitrary dumped on their doorstep.

 

[gorgik9]

Frenchgerman uttered the key word: solidarity!

"As for Italy, Greece and Spain, they bear the first onslaught and have to organize the welfare of all the arrivals. And are left hanging when the other countries do not 'play nice' (= solidarity)"

 

[jazzeven]

They fled war in Syria and South Soudan, they fled slavery or death in ISIS or by Boko Haram, they fled misery in Afghanistan or african countries. And what do we do ? Next to nothing ...
We even accept that Turkey uses the armed situation with ISIS to solve the Kurde problem militarily ...

The past 100 years of foreign involvement have shown that there is little one can do from the outside to bring back balance. In fact usually it leads to the opposite.
The people of Turky chose their government, they are agreeing with the politics. It is still a democracy. While this should move letting them into the EU into a more distant future, there is simply no way other than nice words to convince them to be smarter.
While one can strike against ISIS from the air, the power vacuum will be filled by someone else, once ISIS leaves, just like ISIS filled a power vacuum the in Syria, which to a degree was created by "doing something" from the outside.

It is pointless to try to solve this problem thinking in months or years. This is a thing of decades. The smartest move would be to spend a shitload of money, and I mean a shitload which would make the banking crisis and Greece look like pocket money, on getting a humanistic education system into the stills stabil countries of Africa and Asia and then to work that way towards the center of the crisis, drying out the reinforcements of whatever dumbness causes the problem. Until then keeping the refugees from drowning and starving is the only thing one can do.

This marks another deficit of the EU unification. There is no central comittee to solve the distribution. UK, while being one of the biggest contributors to the problem by attacking the iraq and destabilizing the whole region that way, does not feel like part of the EU at all, unless it gets paid for pretending so a little longer. The outer regions fear that losing control would mean they could not get rid of the people arriving at their borders, while at the same time having to fulfill EU standards for keeping them. And Germany's government as usual is too tied up in inner politics to have any vision at all and the comfortable situation of being in the middle makes the whole issue easier to handle (and yet, we fuck it up, by being unable to plan even a few weeks ahead because it is all about reacting with our shitty government, and unfortunatly the Germans like that).

 

[gb2000ie]

I think one of the problems with the US (or others) helping the EU is ... that they are not interested !

if you consider the behavior of the US in the recent Greece crisis you will discover that the EU is one of the most important competitors for the US. The 'partnership' is in words only !
And any backlash to this competitor is welcome !

I actually think it's a GOOD thing the US did not try to interfere in the Greek mess. That, unlike, the problems leading to this mass migration of people, is not a problem of their making. The EU made the Greek mess through ignorance (arguably will-full) combined with a dash of good old fashioned imperialism and perhaps a little racism. We should clean up our own messes. The world is not helped by the US coming in uninvited to 'help'!

The refugee crisis though, THAT the US owe us all some help with! Europe is by no means blameless in the mess that is the middle east (all the former empires get to share in that blame, especially the British), but the last 30 years of American wars in the region are a BIG factor in getting us to where we are today.

The US definitely owe us some help here!

B.

 

[gb2000ie]

... Until then keeping the refugees from drowning and starving is the only thing one can do.

Tragically I think you are exactly right

This marks another deficit of the EU unification. There is no central comittee to solve the distribution. UK, while being one of the biggest contributors to the problem by attacking the iraq and destabilizing the whole region that way, does not feel like part of the EU at all, unless it gets paid for pretending so a little longer. The outer regions fear that losing control would mean they could not get rid of the people arriving at their borders, while at the same time having to fulfill EU standards for keeping them. And Germany's government as usual is too tied up in inner politics to have any vision at all and the comfortable situation of being in the middle makes the whole issue easier to handle (and yet, we fuck it up, by being unable to plan even a few weeks ahead because it is all about reacting with our shitty government, and unfortunatly the Germans like that).

Well said!

B.

 

[Shelter]

If banking crisis or Greece: when it comes to money chased one summit conference the next.

But at the point of the refugees all are ducking away. Instead of being solidly united, the East European States are inviting to their own summit, where they want to assure themselves of their tough attitude.

In the middle of September the Interior Ministers and Ministers for Justice of the EU will meet together. From the European Commission President Juncker wasn't much to hear to this theme until today.

I believe that Germany and two or three other countries shall resolve this problem single-handedly. It is my opinion that on this way Europe cannot operate.

 

[gb2000ie]

I wonder will the heart-breaking images of the drowned baby do anything to dent the hard-hearted racism that is so on display at the moment?

It's time we started treating our fellow humans with some humanity.

B.

 

[Sinnerr]

I wonder will the heart-breaking images of the drowned baby do anything to dent the hard-hearted racism that is so on display at the moment?

It's time we started treating our fellow humans with some humanity.

B.

The fact that europe doesn't have capacities to save whole world is not hart hearted racism.

Drowned baby is a horrific tragedy. But we better get used. Even if Europe will allow millions it wont be enough... Europe can take any number but there are still another future refuges being born in the 3rd world countries...

 

[gb2000ie]

The fact that europe doesn't have capacities to save whole world is not hart hearted racism.

Sorry - but that total red herring is not worth the pixels it's typed on.

No one is saying Europe should go around the world looking for people to help in an attempt to set up a utopia.

"we can't help everyone" - right - so? Because we can't help everyone we should help no one? Or do you think we are doing absolutely all we can? I don't. I don't think we're doing even NEARLY all we could.

Drowned baby is a horrific tragedy. But we better get used. Even if Europe will allow millions it wont be enough... Europe can take any number but there are still another future refuges being born in the 3rd world countries...

Shouldn't we try our best to do what we can though? Or have we lost that much of our humanity as a continent?

B.

 

[Shelter]

Shouldn't we try our best to do what we can though? Or have we lost that much of our humanity as a continent?

B.

I think people (most of them!) haven't lost their humanity GB. But the Governments of the single states of the EU, because they are closing their eyes in front of these waves of refugees which seem to overrun Europe!

I can't speak for the European countries - but for my homecountry of Germany. So many normal people are helping in the meantime the refugees, but their capacity soon is exhausted. The people which are willing to help are forsaken by the political officials. When I hear from a village in West-Germany where the people said they are ready to take care for 100 refugees - and they have had only 100 beds and room for these persons and there will be send 150 - you will understand how other villages will react. And it is for me not understandable that no one of the political officials will speak with the normal people and tell them what they want to do - but they do without asking or telling the people. And that again will be the reason why the people will be upset. As well our Government sets such refugee camps always in regions where the people are really poor and jobless. And there will be a hotbed where the right wings will get their followers. And we can see what happened.

 

[Sinnerr]

Allowing massive amounts of immigrants in cannot be a long term solution. Because it doesn't improve live conditions in their countries. (It will only wrose conditions in Europe).

But It's hard to imagine how some westerner tells people in 3rd world muslim majority countries what to do. Blue eyed devils runs 2nd round of colonization... hahahaha

Effective solution of problems must be local. Done by locals. If local goverments won't care for their people ... we gonna see drowned people, even babies.

 

[Sinnerr]

BTW: I've sent some little money to People In Need charity to their campaign for Syrian refugees today. But I know it's not a salavation.

 

[gb2000ie]

The people which are willing to help are forsaken by the political officials.

That's the part I find so tragic

Government sets such refugee camps always in regions where the people are really poor and jobless. And there will be a hotbed where the right wings will get their followers. And we can see what happened.

And that's the part that scares the pants off me - it's almost like they want to create trouble so they'll have an excuse to do as little as possible

B.