Dear Mum and Dad

[TheEnd]

I just read this thread "how is your relationship with your parents" it was quite interesting ...
I have a useful sequel to that thread ..."How to convince your parents"

first of all ask them about their concerns why being gay is wrong?

they would come up with things like society does not accept it.

a norm in one society is a taboo in the other, in India small "shiate Muslim" kids cut themselves with blades on a special day to show respect
to their religion, in the west something like this would not be tolerated.

then they would say that sex between men and women is common in all societies and cultures...

that is true but that means if something is practiced by every human on earth whether it is right or wrong should be followed. quoting the above if the whole population of planet earth would be "shiate Muslims" and every kid practiced body mutilation than would everybody follow it blindly? Is it the quantity that is important, if 90% are doing it you have to do it too?

If they say the example is flawed "marriage is not body mutilation" tell them they are wrong for those "shiate Muslims" it is much more than marriage. societies and their cultural norms have been evolving over time if something is beneficial to the society and not harmful it gets accepted" sex between man or women or man and man does not hurt anybody.
As one of the case mentioned above is accepted as a social norm where as the other is not; just imagine how many Einstein's and newtons have committed suicide because they were gay or were out-casted from their society just because they came up with a new norm in the society(that does not affect others in any harmful way) which was never accepted. There would be a few social norms that your parents would also not be following point those out.

Then they would say it is not natural..

Well that is quite true man and women copulate and produce a kid that's the course of evolution, and your parents are right on that point. but if its a kid that they want you can always get your sperm and your partners sisters egg or vice-versa and give them a kid too, medical science has come a long way in that field, problem solved.

If they invoke religion...

I have no answer I cannot argue about 2000 year old myths and fairy tales and its also out of the scope of this discussion.

 

[logan222]

Because my parents are not particularly religious, I don't think they have any material they can use to back up why they think homosexuality is wrong without coming off as huge hypocrites. They'll just say it's not natural.

Honestly, now I believe that they just think it's "unfortunate" to have a gay son. Not so much because they are personally against homosexuality, but because they don't want me to suffer. And they know being gay means you're going to suffer a lot, especially in a society as anti-gay as ours.

I talked to my dad once about how they can now have kids without having sex and he just thought it was too unnatural. That they shouldn't be messing with things like that because it's just not natural. Realistically, though, I think I'd much rather adopt children (if I ever find Mr. Right) than have our own. My sister is a social worker and I've seen how ugly life can get for kids in foster programs. I think it's a real shame that we ALREADY have so many kids with no stable homes or families. My sister once had to get off the side of the road to stop one of the foster kids that she was taking to a new foster home; he was attempting to commit suicide with his seatbelt. He was only 7...
But, who knows? Maybe I'll change my mind about adoption.

 

[Tjerk12]

Because my parents are not particularly religious, I don't think they have any material they can use to back up why they think homosexuality is wrong without coming off as huge hypocrites. They'll just say it's not natural.

Honestly, now I believe that they just think it's "unfortunate" to have a gay son. Not so much because they are personally against homosexuality, but because they don't want me to suffer. And they know being gay means you're going to suffer a lot, especially in a society as anti-gay as ours.

I talked to my dad once about how they can now have kids without having sex and he just thought it was too unnatural. That they shouldn't be messing with things like that because it's just not natural. Realistically, though, I think I'd much rather adopt children (if I ever find Mr. Right) than have our own. My sister is a social worker and I've seen how ugly life can get for kids in foster programs. I think it's a real shame that we ALREADY have so many kids with no stable homes or families. My sister once had to get off the side of the road to stop one of the foster kids that she was taking to a new foster home; he was attempting to commit suicide with his seatbelt. He was only 7...
But, who knows? Maybe I'll change my mind about adoption.

Dear Logan.
I am really astonished. In The Netherlands youngsters of your age may seem independent and successful, but they are not half way so wise and mature as you are. Absolutely amazing. My compliments.

 

[bigsal]

Dear Logan.
I am really astonished. In The Netherlands youngsters of your age may seem independent and successful, but they are not half way so wise and mature as you are. Absolutely amazing. My compliments.

I agree with what was said by Tjerk12.

I add that, when you make the decision, I'm sure you'll do the right thing.

Follow your heart.

 

[BigBenni]

I agree totally with you and I already wrote in another thread here

decisions which come from the heart can't be wrong and in case of sexuality

there is no right or wrong.

I think that's life and people are different. That makes life livable

 

[bluefish22]

It strikes me as odd that people still harbor the belief that homosexuality is unnatural. We have found evidence of same-sex relationships/attraction throughout virtually every society for any given period of time. Similarly there are a number of non-human species whose members are known to engage in same-sex, sexual behaviors. If anything, given its ubiquitous presence throughout all of history and in countless environments, there is more reason to believe that it couldn't be anything but natural.

I do understand the point that people who use this line intend to get across (the (vast?) majority of people are heterosexual(i.e. homosexuality is unnatural, i.e. it is wrong)) but there are a number of characteristics that fall into the exact same category. If we accept this as a valid line of reasoning, we should also adopt the same stance toward, say, left-handedness...

 

[gb2000ie]

If we accept this as a valid line of reasoning, we should also adopt the same stance toward, say, left-handedness...

It's not that long ago that we DID - my grandmother is left handed, but the nuns beat her till she started writing with her right hand, because left-handedness is not natural and the work of the devil.

I really wish I was exaggerating here

B.

 

[logan222]

I do understand the point that people who use this line intend to get across (the (vast?) majority of people are heterosexual(i.e. homosexuality is unnatural, i.e. it is wrong)) but there are a number of characteristics that fall into the exact same category. If we accept this as a valid line of reasoning, we should also adopt the same stance toward, say, left-handedness...

You bring out a very good point! I had never seen it that way before, but you're totally right!

gb2000ie, my dad and I are both left-handed! When he was younger in Mexico, the professors would also slap him with a ruler when they caught him writing with his left hand. He felt like he was a freak, but he couldn't change what hand he writes with. This is going to be symbolic/metaphoric gold when I finally tell him that I'm gay! Thanks!

 

[logan222]

Dear Logan.
I am really astonished. In The Netherlands youngsters of your age may seem independent and successful, but they are not half way so wise and mature as you are. Absolutely amazing. My compliments.

Also, thanks, Tjerk! That's a real nice compliment, but I think it's a natural way of thinking when one is exposed to the tragic reality of foster care programs. I have a very strong paternal instinct. I love children, and everyone says that I'd make a great father. Most of my jobs have involved children (daycare aide, teacher, school program administrator, etc.) and i have a real passion for them. I sincerely believe that looking into them is the only real long-term way of improving our major problems. After seeing what my sister has to work with, I'm convinced that I'll adopt if I find someone to partner up with. I think a child can and should be loved by a stable combination of parental units, biological or not. The foster care system is the main reason as to why I am so adamant about contraception, sex education, and pro-life! These children don't deserve to be brought into such horrible childhoods.

And a child is a child no matter what. No matter if it came out of your dick (as sperm) or vagina (as a child) or out of a legal contract. My mom says she wouldn't like any of us to have adopted children because you'll never love adopted children as much as your own. I don't agree with that. You love what you raise and what raised you (as long as they weren't horrible/abusive people). Even if my parents reveled to me that I was adopted, I'd still love and see them as my real parents (and I would have no desires to find whoever my biological parents are).

 

[garth33]

You bring out a very good point! I had never seen it that way before, but you're totally right!

gb2000ie, my dad and I are both left-handed! When he was younger in Mexico, the professors would also slap him with a ruler when they caught him writing with his left hand. He felt like he was a freak, but he couldn't change what hand he writes with. This is going to be symbolic/metaphoric gold when I finally tell him that I'm gay! Thanks!

I also experienced the nutty-nun slapping you with a ruler when you wrote with your left hand..WTF!! On one hand I felt guilty because if someone like a nun said you were a bad person - you were raised to believe it and felt bad about yourself. Years later, (still a proud lefty) I realized I didn't CHOOSE to be left handed...I just was and no corporal punishment was going to change that. It goes to so many levels but you truly are what you are and I think you'll be suprised when you tell your dad Logan - especially with that story Just know you have a lot of friends here...(I'm extending a hand tonight) It will work out and if it doesn't - we're here for you buddy...

peace,
g33

 

[Sinnerr]

How to convince your parents?
by my wiew:

Tell somthing like:
"Mom, Dad you should know one thing about me. It's not new, it's same old as me. Only I didn't know till my hormons has began to call. I'm gay I love boys not girls. I think that you should know it cos you're my parents and I loved love and will love you same as I was I am and ever will be gay. Please don't be sad about it. No one is guilty about it and it's no problem at all."

Thats everything what is possible to say (of course tell it by your words). If your parents are open minded liberal people They will take in a minute. If They aren't but They love you so time and patientness are yours best helper at the moment If they are kind of people who love social conventions more than their own son (or daughter in lesbian case) They woul'd accept it never. Same if They are latent hosexual all their lifes so They never would accept your homosexual orintation if they never did accept their own.

You can also tell Them that it's not life style like if you are rocker in leather jacket or hiphopper in baggy clothes. You can tell that homosexuality was ever on the Earth. Also in animal kingdom: http://anonym.to/?http://www.nhm.ui...linger/skiftende/againstnature/index-eng.html tell about famous and historical homosexual persons.
But i think it's not neccessary (when your parents are liberal) or something what can break absolutely negative attitude(when They are conservative and bigot religious). This informations may be an accelerator of gradual acceptation and would be better if you will be able to answer when you woul'd be asked. You know, dont give Them firing of arguments when they will be only surprised and shocked not against or angry. Anyway, use your empathy, you're gay so you got great empathy.

 

[logan222]

Thanks to everyone for all of the advice and support.

I think we hit a bit of regression with my parents, well, my mom mostly. We were casually watching this really good film that I knew they'd like. It's called "Trade" and it's about sex trafficking in Mexico/US. I had no idea there'd be any allusion to homosexuality or anything of that nature, but they do show an older man that purchased a 8-year old Thai boy for sex. Once my parents read on this signal, my mom was obviously upset about this, which is okay because we are not cool with pedophilia...but what she blurted out was "pinche joto abusando de los niños" (which translates to "fucking faggot abusing kids"). I'm okay with her being upset about a man abusing a young kid, but I tensed up real bad when she decided to use the word "joto." Why couldn't she say "fucking pedophile"? His attraction to males shouldn't be the problem, just his engagement in nonconsensual sex with underaged boys. So why use that word? I feel like my progress of building them up to it has regressed somehow.

And the problem now is that my sister is getting married at the end of the year. She always had people from our family (extended) that hammered her about when she's going to get married; that's ALL they ever talk about! Now that she'll be married, the focus will shift onto me (the baby of the family). I guess that'll be, in some sort of twisted way, a good thing because it will pressure me into blurting it out eventually. But I really don't want to receive those annoying questions. It's like the only thing racing in my mind when they ask things like that is, "Well, yeah, I want to get married eventually when I find the right guy, but realistically, none of you would EVER go to my wedding" (which makes me really sad). I think it's going to be very emotional for me at my sister's wedding. I might blurt something out then, but I don't want to ruin her big day.

I even feel bad for her (my sister that's getting married). She's a really strong, independent woman. I know she doesn't really want to get married. Her boyfriend has been proposing to her since she was 23 and she's said NO all the time. She got sick and tired of my oldest sister (whose been married for 7 years or so) and my mom ALWAYS pressuring her about getting married already. She's in her late 20s, but if she doesn't want to do it, then I think it's a huge mistake on my family's part to pressure her into it. I've convinced her time and time again that she's a strong woman and doesn't need a marriage to validate her as a person. I'm one of the only persons that told her it's okay to go at her own speed and ignore what they are pressuring her to do. She'll definitely be the first one in my family I come out too first. She's younger and more understanding than my conservative married sister. Neither of them have ever expressing being okay with gayness, but I think once I come out, it'll open up a whole new insight for all of them (that is, if they really loved me in the first place...which let's hope is the case...lol)

 

[brmstn69]

On the issue of sex between men being "Unnatural"...
And excuse me for my bluntness, but those familiar with me here know that thoughtful, polite, eloquent replies are just not in my nature.

The human male body is designed for gay sex. If it wasn't, we would not have our G-spots up our asses...
Women don't have a prostate, they do anal because it's expected of the, not because they enjoy it. They may get pleasure form making their man happy, but they don't have anal orgasms...

The truth lies in human anatomy...

 

[Sinnerr]

to logan222: Simply, if You want to show your bf your family some day and have your family on your wedding it's necessary to tell them "I'm gay". Althought it's not assurance, You Can be sure that if you won't tell it They won't ever meet your bf or come on your wedding.

Question No.1: Are you independent on your parents?
If you are you can continue to the Q. No.2. - OR - If you are not, do nothing at the moment and try to think on somethig fain now and go back to q. No.1. when you will be.

Q. No.2: What's better for you?
Hope & Stress - OR - Assurance (need to try to know if good or bad)

YOU VOTE!

I'm sorry if I made you sad or more stressed but this is all your problem by my wiew.
Good luck and be an optimist. It helps. Believe me.

 

[Sinnerr]

New idea:
Does your sister know that you're gay ? If She doesn't tell it first to Her. You wrote that She is independent strong woman. So She should be gayfriendly too. If She is you will have supporting ally.

 

[bigsal]

Thanks to everyone for all of the advice and support.


..... the problem now is that my sister is getting married at the end of the year. She always had people from our family (extended) that hammered her about when she's going to get married; that's ALL they ever talk about! Now that she'll be married, the focus will shift onto me (the baby of the family)....... QUOTE]

Logan you are really in a bad situation.

Every time you open your heart and your real life stories of problems, open the window of my memories.

I too have had these experiences.

I've gotten myself repeating over and over again: "I decide, if and when I get married."

But believe me, it was not easy.

I see that many give advice, but only those who know this reality, they can actually understand.

Is there much difference between the culture Anglo-Saxon and that Latin, especially for these things.

I'm near you

 

[logan222]

Logan you are really in a bad situation.

Every time you open your heart and your real life stories of problems, open the window of my memories.

I too have had these experiences.

I've gotten myself repeating over and over again: "I decide, if and when I get married."

But believe me, it was not easy.

I see that many give advice, but only those who know this reality, they can actually understand.

Is there much difference between the culture Anglo-Saxon and that Latin, especially for these things.

I'm near you

How does your story relate to mine? I'd love to hear your story as well. If you don't want to share it here personally, you can PM me. Thanks so much for the support!

Yeah, I think there's a difference with Latino family culture. Basically, the family is a lot more important than in traditional Anglo-Saxon cultures where they are typically not as close with extended family members and have much earlier independence and moving away from home experiences.

In Latino culture, getting married in your 20s is expected! Actually, to be truthfully honest, getting married and having kids in your 20s is the ideal Latino way because in reality, many Latinos begin having kids earlier than most other cultural groups in the US (most of my cousins began in their late teens or early 20s...before neither the mother or father had a secure, reliable job). It's a shameful aspect to our community, but it is a reality for many.

In Latino culture, the family is so integral that it is almost inconceivable for a traditional Latino parent to expect his/her son or daughter to be alone and independent (instead of quickly starting up a family). I'm barely 22 and my mom is already trying to pressure me into marriage so I can start a family. She keeps saying I'd be a great father, which is true, but my family isn't going to be looking anything like what she's envisioning (no wife, no biological kids, etc.).

Unfortunately, it is equally inconceivable for most traditional Latino families to accept that someone in their family is gay or bisexual. Many traditional Latino parents I've met have even told me they'd rather their children never even mention their gayness if they happen to be gay. I would have been okay with that at an earlier time, but I want to be happy, and I need my family to be happy with me, so I can't hide this for too much longer.

For my extended family, I already know that people will talk behind my back, criticize me, think it was a choice I made, and treat me as less than what they used to think. For them, I don't really give a rat's ass if they ever accept who I am. I've got tons of druggie, criminal, alcoholic, welfare, and child support cousins and aunts/uncles. Them thinking what I am is wrong won't really bother me because I've secretly always looked down on them for what have been real life choice lifestyles. For my immediate family, though, it's really important for me that they eventually come to terms with who I am. X_X

The only thing that brings about hope is that we aren't a traditional Latino family. We're not Catholic and we aren't even practicing pious adherents of the religion we were raised with (Adventism). So, although my parents sporadically use the Bible to explain SOME things away, it won't be rocket science to explain to them that what I am is not wrong or unnatural.

 

[bigsal]

How does your story relate to mine? I'd love to hear your story as well. If you don't want to share it here personally, you can PM me. Thanks so much for the support!

Yeah, I think there's a difference with Latino family culture. Basically, the family is a lot more important than in traditional Anglo-Saxon cultures where they are typically not as close with extended family members and have much earlier independence and moving away from home experiences.

In Latino culture, getting married in your 20s is expected! Actually, to be truthfully honest, getting married and having kids in your 20s is the ideal Latino way because in reality, many Latinos begin having kids earlier than most other cultural groups in the US (most of my cousins began in their late teens or early 20s...before neither the mother or father had a secure, reliable job). It's a shameful aspect to our community, but it is a reality for many.

In Latino culture, the family is so integral that it is almost inconceivable for a traditional Latino parent to expect his/her son or daughter to be alone and independent (instead of quickly starting up a family). I'm barely 22 and my mom is already trying to pressure me into marriage so I can start a family. She keeps saying I'd be a great father, which is true, but my family isn't going to be looking anything like what she's envisioning (no wife, no biological kids, etc.).

Unfortunately, it is equally inconceivable for most traditional Latino families to accept that someone in their family is gay or bisexual. Many traditional Latino parents I've met have even told me they'd rather their children never even mention their gayness if they happen to be gay. I would have been okay with that at an earlier time, but I want to be happy, and I need my family to be happy with me, so I can't hide this for too much longer.

For my extended family, I already know that people will talk behind my back, criticize me, think it was a choice I made, and treat me as less than what they used to think. For them, I don't really give a rat's ass if they ever accept who I am. I've got tons of druggie, criminal, alcoholic, welfare, and child support cousins and aunts/uncles. Them thinking what I am is wrong won't really bother me because I've secretly always looked down on them for what have been real life choice lifestyles. For my immediate family, though, it's really important for me that they eventually come to terms with who I am. X_X

The only thing that brings about hope is that we aren't a traditional Latino family. We're not Catholic and we aren't even practicing pious adherents of the religion we were raised with (Adventism). So, although my parents sporadically use the Bible to explain SOME things away, it won't be rocket science to explain to them that what I am is not wrong or unnatural.

Dear Logan,
I am Italian, then Latin culture.
I traveled a lot and I compared the different cultures, even those Arab and oriental.
The cultures more open to the diversity of sexual orientation, are undoubtedly that the Scandinavian and northern European (excluding Poland and Russia).
The worst culture, believe me it is the Latin one. Not because retrograde, but false.
All good, but ready to crucify those who think differently.
They talk about family, but if something or someone comes from traditional norms, rinnegherebbero even people who "say" to love.
They speak of forgiveness, but are the first to cast a stone.
Proudly religious, but great sinners and blasphemers; much then to confession, make peace with God and wash their conscience.
Intolerant, hypocritical, full of contradictions, etc.. etc.. (The list is long, but I will not bore you too much.
Perhaps I am no exception. Still I hide my homosexuality.
I have to keep our feet on the ground. If I were to reveal my homosexuality, perhaps some would accept me, but I know some (a few, at the truth) who had the courage or desperation to do outing, but have been marginalized from society, in practical cut off with "elegance", silenced, especially those who described themselves as tolerant and open.
This is not to scare you. I do not know the environment in which you live, but how did you tell your ups and downs, we have some similarities.
I for years have been put under pressure by marriage. Are the last of many brothers and sisters, all married and with children, no one knows I'm gay, even if someone suspects.
Do not fear the judgment of others. I Do not go out into the open because it would risk losing their jobs well and I am sure that here in Italy, very few who are willing to hire a person homosexual. Without work no one eats and lives badly.
With regard to marriage, you can simply say that you'll get married when you find the one you love. Feel free to add that you want your children to grow up in a house where there is love, not coexistence, as it should be. If your parents do not understand this, I'm afraid you did not escape.
Do not listen to the wider circle of relatives, are envious of your freedom of conscience and intellectual. Perhaps they are oppressed by a condition imposed to them, and they want everyone else to follow the same fate.
I can also make mistakes, even hope I am wrong. But this is said with the heart.
Think carefully and good luck.
Whatever you want to share, know that you will always find the door open.

bs

(Sorry English is not correct, use a translator media)

 

[Urban]

The human male body is designed for gay sex. If it wasn't, we would not have our G-spots up our asses...
Women don't have a prostate, they do anal because it's expected of the, not because they enjoy it. They may get pleasure form making their man happy, but they don't have anal orgasms...

The truth lies in human anatomy...

That is a really interesting point! In my MANY years on earth I never thought of that or ever heard it stated before.

Thanks for that, brmstn69!

 

[brmstn69]

That is a really interesting point! In my MANY years on earth I never thought of that or ever heard it stated before.

Thanks for that, brmstn69!

I have this theory, and it can apply to both arguments for evolution and intelligent design.

Studies have shown that most people have at least some degree of bisexuality, and I believe that there is a reason for that. Humans are one of the few animals that have sex for pleasure, and because of our intelligence, we have been able to prolong life and defeat many forms of natural death that would otherwise have kept our population in balance with nature. So nature gave us the ability to enjoy sexual pleasure separate of reproduction. Same sex relations are a part of the natural order.

I mentioned that men were designed to enjoy with other men.

But what about women...

Think maybe there's a reason the clitoris is external where it's best stimulated by oral or manual manipulation, and very little by penetration, which is biggest part of reproduction and sex for males?:thinking:

No, nature knew that we would evolve to the point that we'd have to control our population and planned accordingly.:thumbs up:

The religion stepped in and fucked everything up...