Kevin Spacey Hits on young Anthony Rapp

[tonka]

So the case fell apart this week, and was withdrawn today.

A major item of evidence was the young man's cell phone. He was texting during and after the incident. The phone was surrendered to the police, who made a report.
The police say they returned it to the family. The family say they never got it.
Phone is missing.

There was a hearing this week because the defense insisted that they get the phone to do their own forensic investigation.

The mother of the accuser is Heather Unruh. A former tv reporter in Boston. She testified that she deleted a few texts from her son's phone. But nothing associated with the case.

The son (the complaining witness) got on the stand. When asked about the phone, he took the fifth! ( The fifth amendment allows a person to refuse to answer a question that may incriminate him). It's very unusual for the complaining witness to take the fifth. It's usually the accused.

So no phone, no accuser. The case fell apart.

My own opinion is that Spacey's lawyers saw a hole in the case and used it successfully.
He's a creep who got off, but still a creep.

 

[Tottrop]

So the case fell apart this week, and was withdrawn today.

A major item of evidence was the young man's cell phone. He was texting during and after the incident. The phone was surrendered to the police, who made a report.
The police say they returned it to the family. The family say they never got it.
Phone is missing.

There was a hearing this week because the defense insisted that they get the phone to do their own forensic investigation.

The mother of the accuser is Heather Unruh. A former tv reporter in Boston. She testified that she deleted a few texts from her son's phone. But nothing associated with the case.

The son (the complaining witness) got on the stand. When asked about the phone, he took the fifth! ( The fifth amendment allows a person to refuse to answer a question that may incriminate him). It's very unusual for the complaining witness to take the fifth. It's usually the accused.

So no phone, no accuser. The case fell apart.

My own opinion is that Spacey's lawyers saw a hole in the case and used it successfully.
He's a creep who got off, but still a creep.

What exactly were the allegations being made by the young man?

And why would he plead the fifth?

What was on the phone that the young man didn't want to discuss?

We can only speculate.

I think Spacey has already admitted to x, y and c in terms of inappropriate behaviour. But what is the most serious thing he has already admitted to.

How do you mean a 'hole', legal trickery? But what exactly?

A lot of times in these cases both sides are telling half truths. Black and white are theoretical, grey is the reality.

 

[topdog]

What exactly were the allegations being made by the young man?

Ah, I see you are new in town. Welcome! Of course you can Google to get the whole back story - no need to speculate. Or, just read this thread from the top and and watch us all react and debate this story in real time over the last year and a half. I just did that - it is quite the time capsule.

 

[Shelter]

I don't know if it is true or not. But I could read in our papers that the young man has written some WhatsApp texts to his girlfriend. Now (o surprise!) his cellphone is vanished!
So far so bad. But, so I will ask myself, what is with the cellphone of his girlfriend? There should be the tidings - or not???? Or did she miss her cellphone too???

 

[brmstn69]

That Kevin Spacey is a predatory creep is undeniable, and I have no doubt that he hit on the kid, but...

But given that the kid question (Will Little is his name) is a tall, athletic, young man that looks like he could have easily played football in high school, and was more than capable of fighting off Spacey's advances, and the fact that his mother is a TV news reporter, I'd say the claims were exaggerated.

I think he told his mother about Spacey coming on to him and the wheels in her head started spinning. She concocted this story as way to cash in on Spacey's already (and rightfully so) sullied reputation and further her own career in the process.

In my eyes, a mother pimping her son out to advance her own goals is worse than anything Spacey did to the kid. And even worse is the fact that this kid, who is just starting out in life has already had his reputation and credibility destroyed...

 

[tonka]

His mother is retired from the news business, but at the end of her career, she did start a group at a local suburban high school for teenage girls who were sexually harassed and assaulted.

My speculation:
I do think the young man was encouraged by his mother, and was reluctant to come forward.
He probably ditched the phone when he got it back. It killed the case.

 

[Rigor100]

His mother is retired from the news business, but at the end of her career, she did start a group at a local suburban high school for teenage girls who were sexually harassed and assaulted.

My speculation:
I do think the young man was encouraged by his mother, and was reluctant to come forward.
He probably ditched the phone when he got it back. It killed the case.

Why plead the fifth?

If he, his mother, his GF, whoever ditched phones and deleted messages, why not just take a deep breath and tell the truth, the full truth, and nothing but the truth?

Again, why plead the fifth?

I agree with brmstn69 that Spacey is a creep. But questions still have to be answered.

Thing about the rule 'The truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth' is that it applies to everyone.

You mention that the mother was involved with charity/activism. Okay.

But so was Spacey. All those celebs, from 'mere' newscasters to actors love to be seen in the charity field.

Charity work doesn't get you a free pass. Everyone follows the same rule: The truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

So, once more, why plead the fifth???

Not a small question. Why? It caused the case to crumble to nothingness.

 

[tonka]

Why plead the fifth?

Speculation again.

Ditching the phone was destroying evidence that the judge explicitly mandated be preserved. He's young. He panicked. He ditched the phone, never expecting it to be an issue ( the police had already examined it and issued a report).
I very much doubt the mother did it.

That's the beauty of assaulting the young. They're not just young and beautiful. They're young and foolish. Even with high powered parents and a brilliant lawyer.

His lawyer is the famous Mitchell Garabedian. The person most responsible for exposing the Catholic Church and it's pedophile priests. Mitchell is a hero to many, including me.
Once the phone was ditched, his goal was to protect his client. So...the fifth.

 

[Rigor100]

Why plead the fifth?

Speculation again.

Ditching the phone was destroying evidence that the judge explicitly mandated be preserved. He's young. He panicked. He ditched the phone, never expecting it to be an issue ( the police had already examined it and issued a report).
I very much doubt the mother did it.

That's the beauty of assaulting the young. They're not just young and beautiful. They're young and foolish. Even with high powered parents and a brilliant lawyer.

His lawyer is the famous Mitchell Garabedian. The person most responsible for exposing the Catholic Church and it's pedophile priests. Mitchell is a hero to many, including me.
Once the phone was ditched, his goal was to protect his client. So...the fifth.

When you say 'he panicked' what exactly do you mean? Why did he panic?

"...potentially exculpatory texts are missing from screenshots of the conversations that the accuser later sent to police. " Anon URL

If true why are the potentially exculpatory texts missing from the screenshots? Normally smartphones present a 'chain' of messages between two parties in chronological order. The only way the defense could know that messages had been deleted from this chain is if they had secured data from the phones at the other end (belonging to the friends) or from telecommunication or other companies that would have copies of the allegedly missing messages.

Young people can be quite cunning, actually. But cunning is not the same as wise.

If he did deliberately exclude potentially exculpatory texts, by picking them out and deleting them, then I can understand why he would plead the fifth. If however, he didn't delete messages prior to producing the screenshots, why plead the fifth? Why the big mystery over the whereabouts of the phone?

I would imagine that if the defense had

-Copies of the screenshots sent to police
-Copies of allegedly deleted texts

That this would not be enough to prove the accuser actually deleted the messages. They would need the phone to be forensically examined for the purpose of confirming that these specific messages were received on the phone prior to the alleged deletion. The initial examination of the phone by the police (I presume they at least examined it?) may not have detected this. After all a message is just a few bytes amid a sea of bytes. It could take several 'sweeps' to find them, presuming they were there and if they could be retrieved at all from the phone.

"that alleged sexual assault victim couldn’t have actually been assaulted because he let Spacey grope him for three minutes. They want an order to block the prosecutors from filing charges for insufficient evidence. They argued that the man, who was eighteen in July 2016 when the incident happened, didn’t report it to police the night it happened or the next day. The victim wasn’t interviewed in person for over a year. "
"Spacey’s legal team claims that the victim told police he approached Spacey and exchanged phone numbers with him. They also say he lied and said he was 23. Unruh told police that he drank between eight and ten drinks of beer and whiskey in over an hour and may have blacked out.

Unruh said that Spacey groped him for three minutes. Attorney Alan Jackson said of this: “That’s an incredibly long time to have a strange man’s hands in your pants, correct?”

However, the victim claims that he couldn’t get away because the bar was crowded."
Anon URL

It must have been very crowded indeed. To stand there for three full minutes of Spacey's hand being in there, thinking 'oh gee, I wish I could walk away but it is just so crowded!'

Also, both his arms must have been pinned down by the immense crowd, with at least one over-weight party-goer sitting on each arm. How rude! :rofl:

If he blacked out how did he remember all the details later?

Surely he could have pushed Spacey's hand away, if not in minute one... then minute two... or minute three??

And if he did lie about his age, why? Was that mentioned in one of the allegedly deleted messages?

So many questions. As you say a lot of it is speculation. But I am not convinced either way. If the trial had continued there would have been a reasonable doubt anyway.

3 minutes! On a strapping 18yo hetero lad who didn't want it. 3 looooooooog minutes. Now is that highly likely, or highly unlikely, to use the new standard for proof? You choose.

 

[sambee]

i thought it would amount to little.

 

[dezdomingos]

When you say 'he panicked' what exactly do you mean? Why did he panic?

"...potentially exculpatory texts are missing from screenshots of the conversations that the accuser later sent to police. " Anon URL

If true why are the potentially exculpatory texts missing from the screenshots? Normally smartphones present a 'chain' of messages between two parties in chronological order. The only way the defense could know that messages had been deleted from this chain is if they had secured data from the phones at the other end (belonging to the friends) or from telecommunication or other companies that would have copies of the allegedly missing messages.

Young people can be quite cunning, actually. But cunning is not the same as wise.

If he did deliberately exclude potentially exculpatory texts, by picking them out and deleting them, then I can understand why he would plead the fifth. If however, he didn't delete messages prior to producing the screenshots, why plead the fifth? Why the big mystery over the whereabouts of the phone?

I would imagine that if the defense had

-Copies of the screenshots sent to police
-Copies of allegedly deleted texts

That this would not be enough to prove the accuser actually deleted the messages. They would need the phone to be forensically examined for the purpose of confirming that these specific messages were received on the phone prior to the alleged deletion. The initial examination of the phone by the police (I presume they at least examined it?) may not have detected this. After all a message is just a few bytes amid a sea of bytes. It could take several 'sweeps' to find them, presuming they were there and if they could be retrieved at all from the phone.

"that alleged sexual assault victim couldn’t have actually been assaulted because he let Spacey grope him for three minutes. They want an order to block the prosecutors from filing charges for insufficient evidence. They argued that the man, who was eighteen in July 2016 when the incident happened, didn’t report it to police the night it happened or the next day. The victim wasn’t interviewed in person for over a year. "
"Spacey’s legal team claims that the victim told police he approached Spacey and exchanged phone numbers with him. They also say he lied and said he was 23. Unruh told police that he drank between eight and ten drinks of beer and whiskey in over an hour and may have blacked out.

Unruh said that Spacey groped him for three minutes. Attorney Alan Jackson said of this: “That’s an incredibly long time to have a strange man’s hands in your pants, correct?”

However, the victim claims that he couldn’t get away because the bar was crowded."
Anon URL

It must have been very crowded indeed. To stand there for three full minutes of Spacey's hand being in there, thinking 'oh gee, I wish I could walk away but it is just so crowded!'

Also, both his arms must have been pinned down by the immense crowd, with at least one over-weight party-goer sitting on each arm. How rude! :rofl:

If he blacked out how did he remember all the details later?

Surely he could have pushed Spacey's hand away, if not in minute one... then minute two... or minute three??

And if he did lie about his age, why? Was that mentioned in one of the allegedly deleted messages?

So many questions. As you say a lot of it is speculation. But I am not convinced either way. If the trial had continued there would have been a reasonable doubt anyway.

3 minutes! On a strapping 18yo hetero lad who didn't want it. 3 looooooooog minutes. Now is that highly likely, or highly unlikely, to use the new standard for proof? You choose.

It's easy to ask all of these questions of a sexually assaulted teen, when it sounds as if most have never been sexually assaulted.

Me, I was sexually assaulted, multiple times, over multiple months, not knowing what to do, or who to speak to. I was a teenager, in a small town, really no one to turn to, even Law Enforcement. This is not something you want broadcast all over a town of 15,000 people. It's not something to be proud of, definitely not a Badge of Honor.

I'd suspect, even in today's world, of instantaneous broadcast of practically everything, letting the world know your most private details is still up to the private individual, not the rest of the world.

Sadly, this case is gone forever, and the Accused will most likely find work again, though not likely at the pay scale he was once accustomed to.

The young man will live with this for the rest of his life. Just when he thinks he's moved past it all, there will be something that will drag it back to the forefront once more.

It's easy for those who've never experience molestation to judge others who've had to deal with this horrible experience. I'm not asking for others to put themselves in the shoes of anyone, just show some damn compassion at times.