Theistic Satanism / The Left Hand Path

[clh_hilary]

Hmmm, I think that people should be free to say they do not like something and then explain why, e.g. they don't like sodomy because it is unnatural. I might disagree with that, and I am also free to state my case.

They deserve to be criticised however if that's the reasoning since homosexuality is natural in every sense of the word.

What I was trying to say is they can say they personally do not like it. Think it's gross, weird, whatever. Without reasons. Only that they shouldn't make policies they don't concern them.

 

[brmstn69]

So, let's recap the moral dilemma. Everyone should be able to:

1. Make up their own mind for themselves about what is right and wrong. In the US, we would say we get this from our First Amendment which allows us to practice whatever religion (or non-religion) we chose to follow,
2. Follow their conscience and be able to do what is morally right. For example, love whoever I choose, regardless of gender.
3. Express their opinion publicly about what they believe. Again, in the US we would point to the First Amendment which gives us freedom of speech.
4. Put their beliefs into action - I should be able to work to make make the world a better place, for example by voting for candidates and laws that are in line with my beliefs or protesting against corruption and injustice.

The problem is that last point is kind of in conflict with the first. Everyone has the right to work to remake the world according to their moral beliefs - but we don't all believe the same thing. (Otherwise their would be no point to #1.) I'm working to overturn anti-gay laws because I think they are morally unjust, and others want to ban homosexuality because it is morally wrong in their judgement.

Of course I think my position is morally superior - that's why I believe it. Everyone thinks that their moral views are the right ones and people who oppose those views are ignorant or evil.

I think the only way we can all live together is to recognize this social paradox and treat people with opposing views with the same amount of respect that we want from them. And doing that while at the same time we are all trying to make the world better, according to our own views.
:thinking:

There is one significant difference, people working to retain or enact anti-gay legislation are attempting to restrict the rights of a group of people simply because they hold different values. Values which by their own admission, stem from their religious views. Which is in direct opposition to separation of church and state. One might argue that laws against murder and theft also stem from religious views, but the difference is that such crimes deprive others of their rights. Pro-gay legislation does not seek to deprive anyone of anything. Any affect on others is only perceived, not actual...

That's the difference, and the morally superior stance...

 

[clh_hilary]

There is one significant difference, people working to retain or enact anti-gay legislation are attempting to restrict the rights of a group of people simply because they hold different values. Values which by their own admission, stem from their religious views. Which is in direct opposition to separation of church and state. One might argue that laws against murder and theft also stem from religious views, but the difference is that such crimes deprive others of their rights. Pro-gay legislation does not seek to deprive anyone of anything. Any affect on others is only perceived, not actual...

That's the difference, and the morally superior stance...

One cannot argue that laws against murder and theft stemmed from religious views, simply because they do not.

Both ideas pre-dated religions, especially christianity; both ideas can be discovered from cultures not based on religious views (eg China). Not to mention the ideas can be explained with the only scientifically proven basis of morality - empathy.

Similarly, homosexuality and recognised same-sex relationships (which include same-sex marriages) both pre-dated religions, and have actually been condemned only after the three Abraham religions infiltrated.

 

[brmstn69]

I said "one might argue", I didn't say that argument was correct...
I also stated that crimes such as theft and murder were crimes because they deprive the victims of their rights, i.e. the right to live, the right to usage of property, etc.

Anti-gay legislation deprives people of their rights, therefore it's criminal.

It doesn't get any simpler than that...

 

[clh_hilary]

I said "one might argue", I didn't say that argument was correct...
I also stated that crimes such as theft and murder were crimes because they deprive the victims of their rights, i.e. the right to live, the right to usage of property, etc.

Anti-gay legislation deprives people of their rights, therefore it's criminal.

It doesn't get any simpler than that...

Yes, and the problem is, homophobes that if gays don't die, get 'cured', or if they get married, their rights will be denied.

 

[brmstn69]

Yes, and the problem is, homophobes that if gays don't die, get 'cured', or if they get married, their rights will be denied.

And as I said...

Perceived, not actual effects...

 

[SoleLove]

brmstn69, what do you think of what I explained about Theistic Satanism and The Left Hand Path? If Atheistic, you could also look into Atheistic (LaVeyan) Satanism. From what I see, you might have a very cartoonish/Hollywoodian view on Satanism, Satan and the Devil, but it's actually a lot deeper than that... Christians fully believe in their religion; that's the reason why they monopolized much of the world and rendered countless humans incapable of thinking, speaking and acting rationally. Receipts:

Reyes said Wednesday that he plans to spend as much as $2 million in taxpayer dollars hiring legal counsel to defend the state's prohibition on same-sex marriage.
Anon URL

I'mma tell you that I feel a lot more liberated, free and empowered ever since I totally left Christianity for Satanism. I also partake in Buddhism, Hinduism and all things occult. It allows me to develop myself on a spiritual level, not just a human or material one. It also gives me a lot more inner strength and courage.

 

[zortek]

buddhism and hinduism are not occult

 

[clh_hilary]

Pastafarianism is still the best.

 

[gorgik9]

Pastafarianism is still the best.

Pastafarianism that must be an utterly Italian invention :rofl::rofl:

But really, what's so fuckin' wrong with atheism and secular humanism ???

Yeah, I know what the american evangelicals say, but hey, I'm not evangelical or american. I'm a swedish boy born in the sixties and turned into an avid cocksucker in the seventies and that's my true religion !!!

And if I had to get some kind of religion, I wouldn't get something as unoriginal as Satanism - which can't be anything else than an inverted version of monotheism. Nooo, some kind of polytheism - Greek (great art & poetry!!!) or Egyptian. Or maybe Norse (Odinn, Thor & Frej) ? And if you want something really, really, really bloody - Aztec religion!!! Dear Satan meek and mild, I give you Tezcatlipoca and Huitzilopochtli :thumbs up:

 

[bigsal]

Long ago, when the mind of primitive man had not yet been blurred by false barkers religious, the only "god" who worshiped was the sun.
This was the only mystical adoration that in the past made ​​sense.
First, because the sun is real and visible.
Second, thing most importantly, the sun produces life light and heat.

Unfortunately, most of the human race, in his intellectual evolution (so to speak), he preferred to rely on what is unreal and supernatural, rather than to people of science and research.

I wonder why, when they get sick or are in trouble, rather than pray and hope to heal, they recur to what science has produced.

 

[gorgik9]

Long ago, when the mind of primitive man had not yet been blurred by false barkers religious, the only "god" who worshiped was the sun.
This was the only mystical adoration that in the past made ​​sense.
First, because the sun is real and visible.
Second, thing most importantly, the sun produces life light and heat.

Unfortunately, most of the human race, in his intellectual evolution (so to speak), he preferred to rely on what is unreal and supernatural, rather than to people of science and research.

I wonder why, when they get sick or are in trouble, rather than pray and hope to heal, they recur to what science has produced.

Hello my friend!
It seems you're "advertising" good old Friedrich Max Müllers (1823-1900) theory of natural solar monotheism, which became a really "big thing" about 1860-1880. But alas, I don't think so...

 

[bigsal]

Hello my friend!
It seems you're "advertising" good old Friedrich Max Müllers (1823-1900) theory of natural solar monotheism, which became a really "big thing" about 1860-1880. But alas, I don't think so...

I do not know that person, which seems to be like all the other smoke salesmen.

There are anthropological studies that claim that primitive man worshiped the sun.
In all this there is a logical explanation as I said. The sun is real, and without it life on earth would not exist.

But it's just a star that is destined to be extinguished, so not a god.

 

[regnomraw]

Unless you're talking about Ra haha - the God who pulled the sun across the sky

 

[brmstn69]

brmstn69, what do you think of what I explained about Theistic Satanism and The Left Hand Path? If Atheistic, you could also look into Atheistic (LaVeyan) Satanism. From what I see, you might have a very cartoonish/Hollywoodian view on Satanism, Satan and the Devil, but it's actually a lot deeper than that... Christians fully believe in their religion; that's the reason why they monopolized much of the world and rendered countless humans incapable of thinking, speaking and acting rationally. Receipts:

Reyes said Wednesday that he plans to spend as much as $2 million in taxpayer dollars hiring legal counsel to defend the state's prohibition on same-sex marriage.
Anon URL

I'mma tell you that I feel a lot more liberated, free and empowered ever since I totally left Christianity for Satanism. I also partake in Buddhism, Hinduism and all things occult. It allows me to develop myself on a spiritual level, not just a human or material one. It also gives me a lot more inner strength and courage.

Be careful what you ask for...

I view Theistic Satanism as being every bit as absurd and ridiculous as Scientology, Mormonism, and Islam...

Anton LaVey's "Satanic Bible" is a work of satire. He was disgusted by human nature so he created a religion based on human nature and gave it the most vile name he could think of to show his contempt...

I have a "cartoonish" view of ALL religion. It is a crutch for people either too stupid or too insecure in their own lives to accept that there are things in this world that they just can't understand. They are unwilling to believe that sometimes shit just happens so it must be Gods will.

The problem with religion, all religion, is that the base element is FAITH. You have to have faith. Even when there is no proof what so ever, and even when faced with indisputable evidence to the contrary.

Faith, there's no reasoning with it...

 

[clh_hilary]

Pastafarianism that must be an utterly Italian invention :rofl::rofl:

But really, what's so fuckin' wrong with atheism and secular humanism ???

Yeah, I know what the american evangelicals say, but hey, I'm not evangelical or american. I'm a swedish boy born in the sixties and turned into an avid cocksucker in the seventies and that's my true religion !!!

And if I had to get some kind of religion, I wouldn't get something as unoriginal as Satanism - which can't be anything else than an inverted version of monotheism. Nooo, some kind of polytheism - Greek (great art & poetry!!!) or Egyptian. Or maybe Norse (Odinn, Thor & Frej) ? And if you want something really, really, really bloody - Aztec religion!!! Dear Satan meek and mild, I give you Tezcatlipoca and Huitzilopochtli :thumbs up:

No it is American. A belief involves believing in The Flying Spaghetti Monster.

 

[clh_hilary]

Be careful what you ask for...

I view Theistic Satanism as being every bit as absurd and ridiculous as Scientology, Mormonism, and Islam...

Anton LaVey's "Satanic Bible" is a work of satire. He was disgusted by human nature so he created a religion based on human nature and gave it the most vile name he could think of to show his contempt...

I have a "cartoonish" view of ALL religion. It is a crutch for people either too stupid or too insecure in their own lives to accept that there are things in this world that they just can't understand. They are unwilling to believe that sometimes shit just happens so it must be Gods will.

The problem with religion, all religion, is that the base element is FAITH. You have to have faith. Even when there is no proof what so ever, and even when faced with indisputable evidence to the contrary.

Faith, there's no reasoning with it...

I believe in myself, this is my religion.

 

[gorgik9]

No it is American. A belief involves believing in The Flying Spaghetti Monster.

Noooooooo....

ALL kinds of pasta, and in particular spaghetti, is ALLWAYS originally something Italian, since the ancient Romans had a special pasta-god and his very ancient temple was located nearby Forum Romanum. His very sacred name was Janus Priapus Pasticus and you can read about him in Livy and Vergil.

 

[clh_hilary]

Noooooooo....

ALL kinds of pasta, and in particular spaghetti, is ALLWAYS originally something Italian, since the ancient Romans had a special pasta-god and his very ancient temple was located nearby Forum Romanum. His very sacred name was Janus Priapus Pasticus and you can read about him in Livy and Vergil.

No no no it comes from China!

 

[gorgik9]

No no no it comes from China!

I think you might be a member of the wrong religion...

My statements about the italianness of pasta isn't a statement of historical facts. It's a logical statement about the very concept of pasta - mind you, the concept, not just the word - and hence, as I said, "ALL kinds of pasta ...is ALWAYS originally something Italian".

Thats a logical and conceptual argument, not just factual.

The chinese might have noodles...