Would you attend a gay pride parade?

[bloop2]

Yaay aaron!! your first contribution to the forum! great post.. I totally agree with you aaron ps. please take notice that i am no longer calling you dinaaaaaarauuukaar but anyways back to the point.. Some countries are a bit or.. very much different than others.. and some do give the totally wrong impression of who we are and therefore reflects bad impression to others..

 

[Aeolus]

Finally nice to meet someone with a similar attitude. I am not proud to be gay ... it is simply who I am. My life is hopefully defined by much more than my sexual orientation, which I didn't get to pick. If I can't pick it, why be proud of it?

 

[bloop2]

I remember being totally hating the fact that I was gay... I remember seeing transvestites and being all.. ugh you ruin it for us.. this is why I am ashamed of myself.. but I learned to get over it because its with me and now its a thing of the past

 

[dinaraukar]

Right Aeolus. I mean, I'm proud of who I am, of the sum of the parts, as we say. I'm also proud of some things that I have achieved in life. But being proud of being gay is like, I don't know, being proud of being a man, or being born with both legs and arms.
Anyway, I'm 6'0, and have a mean look in my face... Trust me, nobody is going to make me less by calling me the f-word... If they try... Well, let's say it's not gonna end well. Haha

 

[brmstn69]

I'd like to see a gay pride parade with all the couples who had their marriages threatened buy prop.8, the couples that didn't make it in time and now can't marry, the couples who have been turned down for adoption, the people who were evicted because their landlord didn't like their lifestyle, the ones who lost their jobs because their gay, the victims of violence against gays, the soldiers who were told they weren't fit to serve their country...

 

[dinaraukar]

I'd like to see that too brmstn69... But I wouldn't call it a Gay Pride Parade. I would call it an Intolerant Shame Parade.

 

[goejavin]

I was in the Bay Area for quite some time and went to the SF Parade alot and for that one day it was very fun and truly for one day there was a true sense of pride in the air. Not sure how others are, but now that I live near NYC, I attended its parade last year and would never go again. There wasn't that same atmosphere. There was no unity, no purpose, no something. But definitely any pride parade is worth seeing at least once.

 

[shamammashouse]

Another issue I have is that many of the parades that I've seen are not really family friendly events. As the number of gay families increases it would be nice if parents could expose their children to a supportive community and allow their children to see the support at things like pride parades. However, from what I've seen at many parades I would not want to take children there. Partly because they could be exposed to things they are too young to see and partly because it could be just as damaging and put stereotypes in their heads.

Someone mentioned that they believe the gay community is all inclusive and therefore the parades are acceptable. The gay community being all inclusive is a subject for another day because in reality it definitely is not. As far as the parades are concerned someone already touched on it but many of them reinforce the stereotypes and the beliefs that people hold AGAINST LGBT individuals. It's not about trying to "act straight" because the only way you can truly do that is by having sex with the opposite gender. It's about showing that the vast majority of the gay community is just like any other American for the most part. If people don't think we are capable of forming loving families and of raising children then they will never change their minds and changes their votes. If I'm Susan from the middle of nowhere Utah and I see a bunch of half naked guys drinking and partying I'm going to believe that they are representative of what it is to be gay.

So yea. If anyone really thinks that people who don't act in such manners are simply trying to conform and act "straight" then they certainly have a very narrow view of the LGBT community. It is the same for people who believe that the LGBT community is nothing but a bunch of horny people who drink all the time, sleep around and act like women.

 

[ritsuka]

I'd like to see a gay pride parade with all the couples who had their marriages threatened buy prop.8, the couples that didn't make it in time and now can't marry, the couples who have been turned down for adoption, the people who were evicted because their landlord didn't like their lifestyle, the ones who lost their jobs because their gay, the victims of violence against gays, the soldiers who were told they weren't fit to serve their country...

All those people are already at the parades; and yes, I think they should be included, along with the people who are just having fun, celebrating, wearing a special outfit, etc. It is funny how most people dissing the parades here have never actually been to one, and have probably just watched the biased coverage of them on fox news.

And no, bigotry does not change due to lifestyle; it doesn't matter how many families raising children (which is not any better or worse than people not raising children, not being in a long-term relationship) how well you pass as straight or avoid associating yourself with drag queens and avoid promiscuity; how much you live a quiet, suburban lifestyle; the homophobes will still look down on you, still hate you. Since you seem to think there are 'good' homosexuals (the straight-acting, married-with-kids type) and 'bad' ones (young people, those living more unconventional lifestyles) and think it is politically viable to fight a culture war inside the gay community and that this will somehow give you equality (and thus that it is ok to leave everyone else behind--not something that the gay activists you mentioned earlier believed in), it is clear that you are the one with the narrow, limited view.

 

[shamammashouse]

And no, bigotry does not change due to lifestyle; it doesn't matter how many families raising children (which is not any better or worse than people not raising children, not being in a long-term relationship) how well you pass as straight or avoid associating yourself with drag queens and avoid promiscuity; how much you live a quiet, suburban lifestyle; the homophobes will still look down on you, still hate you. Since you seem to think there are 'good' homosexuals (the straight-acting, married-with-kids type) and 'bad' ones (young people, those living more unconventional lifestyles) and think it is politically viable to fight a culture war inside the gay community and that this will somehow give you equality (and thus that it is ok to leave everyone else behind--not something that the gay activists you mentioned earlier believed in), it is clear that you are the one with the narrow, limited view.

and who exactly are you referring to/replying to with this? You've quoted one person but it's obvious that your reply is composed of other views that have been presented in this thread. There are several people posting various opinions and you seem to have combined all of them into a single reply which doesn't work because not everyone is saying the same thing here. If you're going to reply to people you shouldn't generalize and you should make sure that it is directed properly.

 

[dinaraukar]

Certainly, there is a cultural war in the gay community. The intolerance within the community brought the creation of groups. If I am not mistaken (if I am, let me know, please), the Bear movement raised against the homosexual concept of feminine behavior, adopting "manly" attitudes. And, of the few bears I know, they kind of despise all other gay men that are not bears.
But that's not the point... The thing is that the Gay Pride Parades come to mind of the big audiences with the word Carnival. And, that's OK in some levels. But THAT'S NOT ALL WE ARE as a community. We are way more than that. We are not good or bad. We are just capable of everything as the next person (gay, straight, bi, asexual): of doing good things and bad things.
I guess that's what we should be really proud of, and show the world: that we are just like them.

 

[shamammashouse]

I guess I'll extend my thoughts instead of waiting to find out exactly who ritsuka was replying to because if it was solely to me then there are a lot of words being placed in my mouth.

My issue with pride parades is not the inclusion of drag queens and what not, it is the inappropriate behavior and the ill representation of the gay community. Drag queens themselves are not inappropriate, that's not what I'm arguing. The issue is the disproportionate nature of these parades. At many of the midwest parades that I have been to the people actually IN the parade tend to be a very poor representation of the gay community and as a result project a certain stereotyped image to the media. This does not include the people on the side watching the parade. This has led to people who would be a better representation of the make up of the gay community avoiding participation because the atmosphere has changed.

This disproportionate nature has also led to the theme of these parades changing from focusing on actual social change to partying and having a good time. I'm not against partying and I'm not arguing that there are "good" and "bad" homosexuals but there are perceptions of good and bad homosexuals in society. To a person watching something like that who has not been exposed to a good number of LGBT people, they will think that all homosexuals are "bad" in their mind. They will see gay people for the stereotypes that are portrayed and nothing else and as a result will not be inclined to adjust their thinking. You can't take a feel good approach to this. Yea, everyone should be accepting but it isn't going to be a flip of a switch and suddenly everyone accepts everyone else. Acceptance is strongly tied into relation and if people can't relate to others on the same level then nothing will change. People need to see that LGBT individuals are not below them and are not as different as they may think. Having a pride parade that reflects the actual diversity of the gay community instead of one that is reflective of the stereotypes would help tremendously. Bigotry does change with perception of lifestyle. Throughout history it is shown that bigotry is often the result of thinking another group or class of people is different and therefore below you. However most gay people aren't that different from their heterosexual peers and until that is stressed and known, things won't change.

As far as a culture war within the gay community it certainly is there and there are many sides to it. The gay community can be extremely self hating. Age, race, gender, gender norms, class and even physical looks are things that are divisive in the gay community. These things are problems within general society as well but because the gay community is smaller than general society the effect can be worse. The term "straight acting" arose out of a hate for effeminate men yet it has little to do with heterosexuality and homosexuality and everything to do with conforming to gender norms.

 

[bloop2]

I hope were not fighting.. =(

 

[shamammashouse]

Of course not, it's just a matter of making sure everyone's points are clear. Ritsuka obviously has a different point of view on the matter which is fine but the separation of ideas needed to be made because at no point was I arguing for the intentional exclusion of certain people. Nor was I arguing that there were good (ie family oriented married) gay people and bad (ie young and different) gay people. I'm 22 myself so if I argued that then I'd be in the "bad" category.

 

[dinaraukar]

Damn. I'm 25. I don't know where I fit anymore under those standards.
Naaa... I know: I'm as bad as a swine flu outbreak...

shamammashouse: Well said.

 

[bloop2]

thats good because were family *hugs everyone*

 

[raisinboy]

I once had similiar opinions to most people here. I felt mis-represented by the parades, and especially by the medias covering those parades, only showing the drag queens and the most outrageous sex acts. So I never went.
But now I'm thinking "Well, if I don't go, of course I won't be represented." So yeah, I will definitely go next year (wasn't in town for the recent one), to the second, smaller, non-commercial alternative parade in Berlin and let my normal flag fly. If I don't want the public to think we're all freaks, I wanna make my contribution to that.

 

[bloop2]

Yeah and by you showing up will help the situation a bit more .. JK! <3

 

[XMan101]

A lot of interesting views

All this shows that we should never categorise, whatever sexuality you are we are all different, yet in some ways the same. The Pride events are not typical of anything, they are generally regarded as a good time, a party, an excuse to be flamboyant and riske.

Personally I never took any of that to heart, because I know that a lot of those people don't act that way on a normal day, it's just having fun. It's just a bit of outrageous colourfulness. These days we get a lot of hetero couple attending too, and they seem to love the atmosphere. It's nothing more than a carnival, yes there is a serious underlying message, but it's not totally lost in the fun of the event.

At the festival, at least in London, there are many stalls (at least when I last went) that deal with the serious issues that may not be available to people from the small towns back home, places they can go to without fear of embarrasment, one for example was a gay muslim stand! Totally at odds with how they are percieved in everyday life, but there are gay muslims, and I've met at least one!

How do they cope, well by coming to a pride festival, where it's total freedom, they can seek help & advice where they might not be able to elsewhere, without any fear.

Just one example that lies beneath the frivolity on the surface. Not all issues have to be dealt with in a poe-faced serious way. Sometimes the fun approach allows others to find a way in.

Drag queens, short leather shorts, etc don't worry me an inch, it's guys having fun, and it makes the parades fun. It should be a fun colourful day - a bland straight forward march through the city would not attract anything more than all the other weekend marches we have.

The main protests here in the UK have been won, there is equality in law, but there are still issues and people to help. It's a celebration of life, that's the way I look at it.

 

[jw4833]

Honestly, I had at one time, but over the last several years, I didn't because a lot of companies were planting spies with cameras taking pics of people and then posting them on the bulletin boards the following Monday...this caused a major rukus with a lot of guys who worked in the corporate areas.