A New Migration Period

[gb2000ie]

It never ceases to amaze me how everybody always demands that America steps in to fight what ever evil is the flavor of the month, and then bitches about us being too brutal in our tactics.

Do you really believe EVERYONE wants your nation's interference in the world?

HECK NO!!!!

I am definitely a someone, and I DO NOT want Americans making any more new wars, at least for now. Has America not done enough damage to the world in the last few decades?

Also - I am FAR from alone in that view.

Those on the right in America seem to like to think everyone wants America's 'help', but that's just an over-inflated ego thing!

B.

 

[W!nston]

America takes the blame for much of the wrongs in the world. A lot of it is deserved but a lot of it is misplaced.

The world's troubles boil down to two things IMO. Greed and the desire for power.

Who really controls the world? The wealthy elite regardless of their nationality. When America uses it's military might, financial might, the NSA, FBI or espionage network it's because a majority of the world's ruling class approves it.

We know the names of some of the families and individuals in that ruling class and not all of them are American. In fact the 'oldest' money is found in Europe. The newest would seem to be in Asia. America's 1% are some where in the middle more or less.

But it's easier to just 'Blame America'. I understand that. The main problem is the disparity in the distribution of wealth world wide.

 

[gb2000ie]

America takes the blame for much of the wrongs in the world. A lot of it is deserved but a lot of it is misplaced.

The world's troubles boil down to two things IMO. Greed and the desire for power.

That I agree with. In the past greed was perhaps most manifest in the British and Dutch quest for spices, today, it's the American quest for oil that dominates. (not only the Americans, why did the Argentinians invade the Falklands, and why did the British fight them off? - oil rights!)

Who really controls the world? The wealthy elite regardless of their nationality. When America uses it's military might, financial might, the NSA, FBI or espionage network it's because a majority of the world's ruling class approves it.

Because the majority of the WESTERN world's rich approve would be more accurate IMO. What the Russian elite want doesn't hold much sway in Washington

We know the names of some of the families and individuals in that ruling class and not all of them are American. In fact the 'oldest' money is found in Europe. The newest would seem to be in Asia. America's 1% are some where in the middle more or less.

But it's easier to just 'Blame America'. I understand that. The main problem is the disparity in the distribution of wealth world wide.

Firstly - I 110% agree that the spectacular inequality around the world is at the root of much of our collective misery. That disparity may not have been originally caused by the elite, but it most certainly has been expanded and exploited by them.

As for why people blame America - we hear the guff your war hawks like to spew out on our TVs, and it has a real impact on our views of the American governing class.

Hearing McCain singing "bomb bomb bomb bomb bomb Iran" didn't go unnoticed. Hearing Bush talk about crusades REALLY didn't go unnoticed. And in more recent time - we can hear Trump just fine over here, and his notion that ISIS is easy to deal with scares the shit out of us - that man hasn't got a clew about the realities of war or the middle east, but he seems keen to jump in with both feet, and he just might be on the presidential ballot next year!

In short, world views of the American establishment are very largely based on the utterances of the American governing classes!

The Brits and French are as fond of a war as the Americans, but they are much more modest and quiet about it, and they at least act like they see war as a last resort (in front of the cameras anyway).

B.

 

[skyward]

Who really controls the world? The wealthy elite regardless of their nationality. When America uses it's military might, financial might, the NSA, FBI or espionage network it's because a majority of the world's ruling class approves it.

There is a pecking-order of countries too. To use one of your terms let's call the US an 'elite' country. The US can resort to all manner of violence to exert its will on a weaker opponent. The smaller or weaker the opponent, the more severe the consequences tend to be. The rulers of a country may choose to 'sell out' to a more powerful country, or, they may, for a range of reasons, resist. If they resist, they risk being removed because typically the US will seek regime-change.

So we should give due regard to nationality in a world that is, after all, composed of nation-states. There is also the matter of how the US gains support. Also, the ability of the US to form coalitions does not automatically imply that it is in the right. You have to look at it's track record for violence, spying, covert-actions, etc. It may acquire support for all the wrong reasons.

You now seem to want to remove or at least dilute US responsibility for eg its own war-crimes, by speaking vaguely about some global or near-global shadowy elite. Sorry but that's a load of bunkum. When a country commits heinous war-crimes, it must own up and take responsibility for actions.

So for example when the US Army fired hundreds of thousands of depleted-uranium rounds in Iraq, causing sickness, genetic mutations, and horrific human suffering, it is responsible. Period.

If you want to do something positive then you could email your elected officials and ask that they push for specific laws to be passed forbidding the use of depleted-uranium rounds.

 

[W!nston]

There is a pecking-order of countries too. To use one of your terms let's call the US an 'elite' country. The US can resort to all manner of violence to exert its will on a weaker opponent. The smaller or weaker the opponent, the more severe the consequences tend to be. The rulers of a country may choose to 'sell out' to a more powerful country, or, they may, for a range of reasons, resist. If they resist, they risk being removed because typically the US will seek regime-change.

So we should give due regard to nationality in a world that is, after all, composed of nation-states. There is also the matter of how the US gains support. Also, the ability of the US to form coalitions does not automatically imply that it is in the right. You have to look at it's track record for violence, spying, covert-actions, etc. It may acquire support for all the wrong reasons.

You now seem to want to remove or at least dilute US responsibility for eg its own war-crimes, by speaking vaguely about some global or near-global shadowy elite. Sorry but that's a load of bunkum. When a country commits heinous war-crimes, it must own up and take responsibility for actions.

So for example when the US Army fired hundreds of thousands of depleted-uranium rounds in Iraq, causing sickness, genetic mutations, and horrific human suffering, it is responsible. Period.

If you want to do something positive then you could email your elected officials and ask that they push for specific laws to be passed forbidding the use of depleted-uranium rounds.

In no way am I trying to remove or dilute any responsibility for any military action. In the first place you call them 'war crimes' - I call them 'military actions'. So there's that. Your not so vaguely veiled disgust with America speaks volumes about your objectivity on the subject so any accusation you make is already tainted in my opinion.

You live in Ireland which is part of the West (am I right in that assumption?) so you benefit from much of the actions of America's military whether you concede that or not.

Every war and every military action is full of heinous crimes. There is no such thing as a perfectly fair and just war. That's why war should be avoided. I suggest you grow up a little and realize that fact.

I understand how bad America is in the eyes of many Europeans. It's always good to have a big, fat, rich scape goat around. Let's see how things work out for Europe once America stops being the scape goat.

 

[skyward]

you call them 'war crimes'

If you are referring to the fact that the US fired over 300,000 depleted-uranium rounds in Iraq that resulted in horrific suffering, genetic deformities, etc, then yes, I am.

 

[skyward]

Slovenia to send back train from Croatia carrying 150 migrants

Police officers look at migrants sitting in the windows of a train at the railway station, near the Slovenian-Croatian border in Dobova on September 17, 2015

Slovenian police on Thursday stopped a train carrying migrants and refugees at the border with Croatia, saying some 150 passengers would be returned to Zagreb because they did not have the necessary doents for onward travel.

"During a regular border control of the train... it was established that 150 out of the 300 passengers did not meet the requirements for entering Slovenia," a Slovenian border police spokesman Anton Stubljar told journalists.

Their return to Zagreb would be organised as soon as possible, he added.

Slovenian later suspended all train traffic between Slovenia and Croatia until Friday morning, Slovenian news agency STA reported.

Anon URL

 

[Stonecold]

Important decisions should never be made on emotional impulses, whether in one's personal life or while leading a nation. I'm wondering how Angela Merkel could possibly think that it would be a good idea to broadcast a welcome to one and all, without thinking through the consequences. Is this the best Europe can do? If so, the EU is surely doomed.

 

[Shelter]

Important decisions should never be made on emotional impulses, whether in one's personal life or while leading a nation. I'm wondering how Angela Merkel could possibly think that it would be a good idea to broadcast a welcome to one and all, without thinking through the consequences. Is this the best Europe can do? If so, the EU is surely doomed.

:agree::agree::agree::agree::agree:

 

[brmstn69]

Skyward, did you ever stop to think of why we use depleted uranium in artillery? We need these weapons to penetrate armored vehicles and bunkers. If we didn't use them, we'd have to use much , much larger devices that would cause many times the amount of damage to surrounding areas and a much higher percentage of collateral damage. So simply put, if you were having your appendix removed, would you prefer the doctor used a scalpel or a machete?

 

[Stonecold]

brmstn69 I agree but I doubt they will agree, they seem to think these barbarians are nice people and we must play nice with them. I can't wait until we release the hounds of hell on ISIS and show the world how to get rid of a cancer. I think ISIS knows we will do it and that is why they have not hit the American homeland because they know the Ohio class subs are waiting and ready to send them to hell where they belong. I believe President Obama would love to go out with a bang during his last year.

 

[skyward]

Skyward, did you ever stop to think of why we use depleted uranium in artillery?

Normal uranium is not as hard as tungsten. But a classified technique allows it to be hardened [...] The final advantage of uranium is cost. Machined tungsten is expensive, but governments supply DU more or less free.

Anon URL

 

[skyward]

Refugees stranded in Croatia

Croatia has closed seven of its eight road border crossings with Serbia after complaining of being overwhelmed by the arrival of more than 11,000 migrants and refugees, though many people have continued to cross through via cornfields.

[...] it became clear that Croatia had underestimated the scale of the challenge it had taken on, failing to provide enough transport to speed thousands of newcomers away from Serbia and towards Slovenia.

At least 2,000 people were stuck in Tovarnik, the first Croatian town after the border with Serbia. While a specially commissioned train arrived to pick many of them up at about midnight, the train was still waiting in the station at 7am, its 10 carriages packed with about 1,000 restless refugees largely from Syria, Afghanistan and Iraq.

Anon URL

Migrants break through police lines at Tovarnik, on the Croatia-Serbia border

 

[jazzeven]

Important decisions should never be made on emotional impulses, whether in one's personal life or while leading a nation.

And yet none of the calls for more violence is made while thinking about the long-term consequences. Instead they are the immediate answer to some irrational fear.
Obama is pretty good in thinking ahead, but when I read the comments in this thread it becomes clear to me, why he was not able to bring the USA further forward.

And Merkel - well, did she ever do something other than reacting? She has a plan how to stay in office, she has no vision how to lead the country. So I would not even disagree that the "candy storm" for the refugees did make little to no sense as an immediate measure.
However, once in her life she seems to be ahead of Europe and might solve that problem on a bigger scale. Because something should be clear at this stage: it really does not matter what is done on a national level in Europe. This problem cannot besolved if everybody tries it on his own.
Currently there is a race to the bottom when it comes to life quality for refugees in order to be an unattractive host. In the long run this will come back and bite out own asses, as we don't just get people who need shelter and food but also new neighbours, who will be socialised by the way they are treated. And if we learned anything from the past, then that trying not to integrate them creates problems which outweight the costs of integration by far.

 

[Shelter]

And if we learned anything from the past, then that trying not to integrate them creates problems which outweight the costs of integration by far.

Do you honestly believe that the most of them really want to be integrated? I think they want to live their life style which they are accustomed from their Arab homecountries. Veiled women and a life only in their own sections.

And one thing I would like to mention: if I read the most of these posts here, than the great devil is the USA. All what happened now is the fault of the US! ~X( Or the western world alltogether is the culprit with their policy of colonialism in the past. And from this reason all of us we have to feel guilty because our ancestors committed the crime of colonialisation. I can read here really some kind of lust to be guilty! I must say I don't conceive these perverted lust!

But in all these posts I've never read any sentence about the role of Russia. I only have read America bombs here, shoots there, kills people, destroys homes and so on. But no one has said too only one word about the role of Russia in Syria. Do you think they are there only to build the ruins again and trying to develop green pastures?

Most of the writers here requesting us to "oppose the reasons of the elopement". And the reasons for this - so I can read here - are the climate changes, wars, tracking and extreme poverty. And the western world has to bear the blame for these events. The western world and the devlish USA.

But take Syria: here bombs a ruthless dictator his own people and that with the help of Russia and in other parts of Syria ISIS is rioting the country back to the darkest prehistory. And the refugees from Syria for instance don't come to us because we (the decadent western world) have wasted their resources, but because they have a brute ruler supported from the new czar in Moscow.

What I want to say is, I'll miss here the balance!

 

[skyward]

If the Assad government falls, who, or what, will take its place?

Think about it.

 

[Shelter]

If the Assad government falls, who, or what, will take its place?

Think about it.

What would you think would be better - a government friendly to the west or one to the east?

Think about it!!!!!

 

[skyward]

General Dempsey acknowledges U.S. Arab allies funding ISIS
SEPTEMBER 16, 2014
Anon URL

"Our allies in the region were our largest problem in Syria. They poured hundreds of millions of dollars and tens -- thousands of tons of weapons into anyone who would fight against Assad. Except that the people who were being supplied were al Nusra and al Qaeda and the extremist elements of jihadists coming from other parts of the world." [US VP Joe Biden]
October 6, 2014
Anon URL


At around this time the so called 'moderate rebels', which had been supported by the US, and ISIS began to cooperate. I wonder was ISIS able to purchase weapons from these 'moderate rebels'?

Also, if ISIS were being supported by the US U.S. Arab allies, would the incentive of higher wages have causes some 'moderate rebels' to join ISIS?

The rich Arab states like Saudi Arabia have a lot to answer for. Why are these states so intent on toppling the Syrian government? What would they like to see in its place?

The Saudi King recently visited the White House. Obama actually came out a side door so as to personally escort him inside. What message does that give us?

I would like it very much if some of our American posters could address these questions.

 

[skyward]

What would you think would be better - a government friendly to the west or one to the east?

Think about it!!!!!

Hate to tell you, but the situation will never be that black and white.

Meanwhile...

Saudi Arabia offers Germany 200 mosques – one for every 100 refugees who arrived last weekend

According to the Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung, which quoted a report in the Lebanese newspaper Al Diyar, Saudi Arabia would build one mosque for every 100 refugees who entered Germany in extraordinary numbers last weekend.

Whether [Merkel] will welcome Saudi Arabia’s reported offer, which Al Diyar noted would “have to go through the federal authorities”, remains to be seen.


Anon URL

 

[W!nston]

Assad has always been the Kremlin's puppet. I don't hear anyone bemoaning the influence Russia exerts in the Middle East.

It seems some believe all Americans supported W's invasion of Iraq and the murder of Hussein. I got news for you - the majority of Americans did not support the invasion and were horrified at the treatment of Hussein and the Iraqis in general.

Hussein was a monster who's 'war crimes' are innumerable. His atrocities made anything America is accused off look like schoolyard antics. He was truly an evil, vicious tyrant who victimized not only his enemies but his own citizens. That is the nature of power in some Islamic countries. Look at Saudi Arabia and yes Syria.

I can't say I liked what happened to Hussein but I can say he did far worse to helpless civilians of his own country.

The only way Assad will fall is if Putin cuts him loose. ISIS will add Syria to it's territories and then on to the next phase of their blitzkrieg.

When ISIS finally crosses the border into Iran that will be a spectacle to watch. Maybe Iran needs those nukes more than I imagined. I'd bet they will not hesitate to use them against ISIS. If there's anyone left alive after that Iran will be ready to rid the world of Israel once and for all as their Ayatollahs have preached forever.

Maybe then America will take a back seat to some other 'war criminals' on the world stage. I won't hold my breath for that to happen.