A New Migration Period

[Stonecold]

ps - I think it's time to surrender the Middle East to ISIS completely. Let Israel defend itself against the enemies around them. If Russia wants to buddy-up with Syria, Iran, Iraq, Jordan and the Palestinians let him have his way.

The West has had a good run and now it's over.

That idea sounds good to me in a lot of ways, but it is never going to happen, America will protect Israel even at the cost of a WW3, that is just hard fact. The US just needs to act without Europe and fight ISIL with the full might of our military power. ISIL will not stop until they are totally wiped out.

 

[W!nston]

The Major Divisions of the Human Race

Most anthropologists recognize 3 or 4 basic races of man in existence today. These races can be further subdivided into as many as 30 subgroups.

Ethnographic division into races from Meyers Konversationslexikon of 1885-90 is listing:

Caucasian races (Aryans, Hamites, Semites)
Mongolian races (northern Mongolian, Chinese and Indo-Chinese, Japanese and Korean, Tibetan, Malayan, Polynesian, Maori, Micronesian, Eskimo, American Indian),
Negroid races (African, Hottentots, Melanesians/Papua, “Negrito”, Australian Aborigine, Dravidians, Sinhalese)

SOURCE

rac·ist

ˈrāsəst/

noun

1.
a person who believes that a particular race is superior to another.
synonyms: racial bigot, racialist, xenophobe, chauvinist, supremacist More
adjective

1.
having or showing the belief that a particular race is superior to another.
"we are investigating complaints about racist abuse at the club"

^^ I'll stick with this definition for 'racist'.

big·ot

ˈbiɡət/

noun

a person who is intolerant toward those holding different opinions.
"don't let a few small-minded bigots destroy the good image of the city"
synonyms: chauvinist, partisan, sectarian; racist, sexist, homophobe, dogmatist, jingoist

"he comes off as a naïve, close-minded bigot"

^^ I'll stick with this definition for 'bigot'.

By the definition for racist GB posted Gay people are a race and those who oppose our equality or existence are 'racists' instead of 'bigots' or 'homophobes'.

I'm neither a racist nor a bigot. I do judge people just like everyone else. I judge them on their behavior in general and on their attractiveness aesthetically. I am human after all.

I do recognize the danger to Europe from this flood of mass migration whether others do or not.

Re-defining the word 'racist' to use as some sort of verbal 'club' to influence opinions about me or others who disagree with those who want to see only rainbows and unicorns in this invasion is a brilliant tactic! Touche!

 

[jazzeven]

We have had a Chancellor which has said a very famous word about the "peace-loving" Putin: "Mr. Putin is a flawless democrat"

Just that he never said that. He was asked by a moderator, whether Putin is a flawless democrat and he just began his answer with "yes". Which is all it takes in out "age of information" to completely warp his words... This chancellor might have solved the Ukraine conflict a tad smarter than Merkel, who allows the USA to bugger Germany in all available holes and even thanks for it.

 

[jazzeven]

The American people do not want a war like Iraq, they are against that type of war. Americans when they go after ISIL will declare war and go in and finish the job.

Oh, okay, because the war in Iraq failed on purpose and when someone just wants it hard enough, a partisan war will not happen. Do the troops carry guns for that or do they get wands to accomplish that magic trick?

I agree with you that a Iraq type war would be bad, the only thing that will stop ISIS is all out war with out tying the military hands.

This reminds me a lot of the conservatives of germany who after losing the first world war claimed that this was the fault of the democrats, who "put a knife in the army's back". I am not sure what you consider as tied hands, but right now I see an inflationary number of drone strikes which accomplish exactly the opposite of what they are supposed to do. I see a war in Iraq which from a military point of view could not be fought any smarter and still did achieve the opposite of what it was intended for.
And also I see a president managing after being in office for 6 years to break the cycle of threats and accomplishing in the Iran conflict more by negotiating than the last president did with two complete wars and an endless number of embarrassing diplomatic faux-pas.

The first step to solve the problem has to be to understand the problem. Unfortunatly that is not the american way, since understanding things is such a tedious task, that just asking for war and then somehow solving that problem while fighting seems so much less exhausting.
That the USA cannot win a war like that was clear after Vietnam. But like a really dumb pupil, they have to repeat the same mistake over and over again.:thumbs up:

 

[skyward]

Just another interesting point and some here may not be aware of it. Russia has taken in an incredible 1,000,000 refugees.... from Ukraine. A large portion of them have already been issued with full Russian citizenship.

Russia is just one country. The EU is a collective of many countries, so I do feel that sizable numbers of refugees can be received by the EU and even issued with full EU citizenship.

However, there still has to be an effort to prioritise the refugees who have the greatest need for help or who are in the greatest peril.

The US also needs to do more -I believe it should agree to take in at least as many of the refugees as Germany. US foreign policy in the middle-east has been one disaster after another. They need to step up and take in many more refugees in this time of great need. The number they have agree to is far short of what it needs to be.

 

[W!nston]

That is interesting. Of course those Ukrainians were from the Eastern warzone in Ukraine where most of the population identified as Russian to the point they are fighting a civil war to secede from Ukraine. Most of them if not all speak Russian and the cultures are basically the same. Also, they share the same religion. I'm sure most of them have family and/or friends in Russia.

So it's a bit like comparing apples and oranges when held up to the mass migration from the Middle East to Europe. Don't you think?

 

[Stonecold]

skyward wrote

The US also needs to do more -I believe it should agree to take in at least as many of the refugees as Germany.

The United States is making plans to accept 10,000 Syrian refugees in the coming budget year, a significant increase from the 1,500 migrants that have been cleared to resettle in the U.S. since civil war broke out in the Middle Eastern country more than four years ago, the White House said Thursday.
The refugees from Syria, however, would be people who are already in the pipeline and waiting to be let into the United States, not the thousands working their way through eastern Europe and landing in Greece.
Germany can do as they please, Americans will never allow that many Muslims into this country. We already have to many religious nuts in this country.

 

[skyward]

That is interesting. Of course those Ukrainians were from the Eastern warzone in Ukraine where most of the population identified as Russian to the point they are fighting a civil war to secede from Ukraine. Most of them if not all speak Russian and the cultures are basically the same. Also, they share the same religion. I'm sure most of them have family and/or friends in Russia.

So it's a bit like comparing apples and oranges when held up to the mass migration from the Middle East to Europe. Don't you think?

My point is that in a crisis situation it's logistically possible. At the time I remember being shocked at the sheer numbers of refugees on the move. But they coped, and so too can Europe.

Of course the point about cultural differences is an important consideration. Beyond the crisis point and providing food, water, & housing, you then need to address language issues etc.

 

[skyward]

Germany can do as they please, Americans will never allow that many Muslims into this country. We already have to many religious nuts in this country.[/COLOR][/SIZE]

But what is Germany supposed to do? The refugees are here, on the doorstep. There is simply no choice. Or put it another way, if you were the German Chancellor, what would you do? What would your plan of action be.

 

[Stonecold]

Germany introduced border controls on Sunday, and dramatically halted all train traffic with Austria, after the country’s regions said they could no longer cope with the overwhelming number of refugees entering the country.

Interior minister, Thomas de Maizière, announced the measures after German officials said record numbers of refugees, most of them from Syria, had stretched the system to breaking point. “This step has become necessary,” he told a press conference in Berlin, adding it would cause disruption.

Asylum seekers must understand “they cannot choose the states where they are seeking protection,” he told reporters.

All trains between Austria and Bavaria, the principal conduit through which 450,000 refugees have arrived in Germany this year, ceased at 5pm Berlin time. Only EU citizens and others with valid doents would be allowed to pass through Germany’s borders, de Maizière said.

The decision means that Germany has effectively exited temporarily from the Schengen system. It is likely to lead to chaotic scenes on the Austrian-German border, as tens of thousands of refugees try to enter Germany by any means possible and set up camp next to it.

German police began patrolling road crossing points with Austria at 5.30pm on Sunday. These checks may be rolled out to the borders with Poland and the Czech Republic. Chancellor Angela Merkel agreed the details in a conference call on Saturday with her Social Democrat coalition partners. The Czech Republic said separately that it would boost controls on its border with Austria.

The emergency measures are designed to give respite to Germany’s federal states who are responsible for looking after refugees. There is also discussion inside the government about sending troops to the road and rail borders with Austria to reinforce security, Der Spiegel reported.
This sounds like a good start
source

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/sep/13/germany-to-close-borders-exit-schengen-emergency-measures

 

[Shelter]

Just another interesting point and some here may not be aware of it. Russia has taken in an incredible 1,000,000 refugees.... from Ukraine. A large portion of them have already been issued with full Russian citizenship.

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl: That's really the best joke I've heard since a very, very long time. Holy Mother Russia I'll pray to you!
After my bout of laughter now I must puke! X_X

 

[W!nston]

Just another interesting point and some here may not be aware of it. Russia has taken in an incredible 1,000,000 refugees.... from Ukraine. A large portion of them have already been issued with full Russian citizenship.

Russia is an ally of Assad and is currently sending massive military support and will soon send troops (they may be disguised like the troops Putin sent to Eastern Ukraine to keep up a neutral appearance publicly) so why doesn't Russia take in these refugees from Syria and give them full Russian citizenship?

Russia is just one country. The EU is a collective of many countries, so I do feel that sizable numbers of refugees can be received by the EU and even issued with full EU citizenship.

You must be joking about the full EU citizenship thingy.

 

[W!nston]

... And also I see a president managing after being in office for 6 years to break the cycle of threats and accomplishing in the Iran conflict more by negotiating than the last president did with two complete wars and an endless number of embarrassing diplomatic faux-pas. ...

How can anyone know what was accomplished by the Iran negotiations when all the details have been sealed? A few of the details were mentioned. The one I found curious regarded the 'Inspection & Verification' visits ... Inspectors must request permission to make an inspection at least 24 days in advance. How stupid can anyone be to agree to that?

It won't be long now before Iran has a working tactical nuclear weapon. I guess Israel will be the first people to learn how those 'negotiation accomplishments' worked out.

 

[jazzeven]

How can anyone know what was accomplished by the Iran negotiations when all the details have been sealed? A few of the details were mentioned. The one I found curious regarded the 'Inspection & Verification' visits ... Inspectors must request permission to make an inspection at least 24 days in advance. How stupid can anyone be to agree to that?

Opposed to the situation right now, where the inspectors can announce their visit and earn a bucket full of laughter instead of visiting at all. So what exactly is given up for the deal? The mere idea of of exercising a control in some distant future which will never happen? On the basis of which threat? An attack on Iran, which is bigger than Iraq, where the USA were forced to leave before things were settled?

Stop thinking about the solution the USA would consider perfect (=the Iran falling on their knees and sucking the USA's dick whenever they want it, like e.g. Merkel) and consider what this deal means: the inspectors announce their visit. Iran can't deny the permission as this would be like admitting that they are working on the bomb. Or they move their whole equipment in a way which is invisible to satellites. Which will be rather complicated, since building a nuclear weapon is not quite as easy as one could think.
At the same time lifting parts of the embargo will increase the life quality for the people. Keep in mind that the little message, in which Obama stated that the West is not the enemy of Iran spawned weeklong protests. Those people will have more connections to the outside. They will ask for more. Maybe not in some open revolution, but by forming the foundation for reforms. This is a lot like the GDR was brought down.

 

[skyward]

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl: That's really the best joke I've heard since a very, very long time. Holy Mother Russia I'll pray to you!
After my bout of laughter now I must puke! X_X

From their point of view, it's not funny. One little 8yo boy lost three limbs and is almost completely blind. War is never funny my friend. There were MANY pictures of dead Ukrainian children lying on the ground, but oddly they never made it onto the pages of the Western press.
Btw, many Ukrainians I believe also moved into Poland. So in relation to the current refugee crisis, we must remember that Poland has already taken in Ukrainians.

Russia is an ally of Assad and is currently sending massive military support and will soon send troops (they may be disguised like the troops Putin sent to Eastern Ukraine to keep up a neutral appearance publicly) so why doesn't Russia take in these refugees from Syria and give them full Russian citizenship?

Regarding the 'massive' bit, Russia is not that stupid. But if you want to believe they are, that's your prerogative.

As regards Syrian refugees, since Russia has and always had large Muslim populations, they actually can. Btw, Russia has already directly evacuated Syrian refugees to Russia.

You must be joking about the full EU citizenship thingy.

I believe full citizen rights need to be tied to an integration process. Refugees need hope and something to work towards. Of course if their home countries stabilize sufficiently, they will have the even greater hope of returning home.

As I said before, I believe the US will have to work closely with other relevant powers, if they truly want to help Syrians.

And by that I don't mean the US continuing to work in the interests of Saudi Arabia. Tell (demand) the Saudis stop funding ISIS.

 

[jazzeven]

Interior minister, Thomas de Maizière, announced the measures after German officials said record numbers of refugees, most of them from Syria, had stretched the system to breaking point. “This step has become necessary,” he told a press conference in Berlin, adding it would cause disruption.
This sounds like a good start

Well, that addresses just half of the problem. And as usual for this government, it is the easier half which can be sold with simple words. A lot like they try to solve the Euro crisis and about 100% of the inner political problems.

Fact is that this government once more hesitated too long. The current negotiations for a solution should have been held before summer. But then Berlin was still convinced that the treaty of Dublin would cover their asses and that the problem would be solved by the smaller states at the border. And in a way they seem to go back to that policy, which as we all could see, worked so perfectly.

 

[jazzeven]

Of course if their home countries stabilize sufficiently, they will have the even greater hope of returning home.

Which in the case of the Ukranian Russians is: Russia. This is like claiming that the Germans who were driven out of Poland at the end of the war (and those who left Russia over the next decades) were foreign refugees. Which they are not. They never stopped considering themselfs as citizens of the country they were living in.

Also they are a political device: Would Russia abandon them, they would lose their claim on the East of Ukraine. Don't mistake a geopolitical strategy for humanity.

 

[skyward]

I believe that what is now being proposed is that states who refuse to comply with quotas could having structural funding cut. This is problematic unless they allow that some states are much better able able to cope than others. Consider the pressure that Poland is already under due to an influx of Ukrainian refugees. Also, can countries like Greece truly afford to start housing a continuous stream of refugees? I believe they should take some, but hope they are not forced to take so many that they reach even more of a breaking point.

As said, maybe it is time for the US to do more to help solve the huge problems it helped create. They need to take many more Syrian refugees. They need to take more Iraqi, more from Afghanistan, and Pakistani refugees. They also need to start taking in sizable numbers from Yemen, and also stop backing Saudi Arabia's brutal treatment of tiny Yemen.

 

[W!nston]

None of that is gonna happen...

 

[skyward]

Novorossiya will not be accepted into the Russian Federation. Besides like Germany, Russia has demographic problems. So there are no selfless angels, but refugees are being helped and we need to continue to push for appropriate help.

Don't mistake a geopolitical strategy for humanity.

Would you apply that statement to the US? If so, why?