The Greek "tragedy"

[Shelter]

I disagree with this. Germany today is modern, liberal and democratic. There are just as feeling and compassionate as anyone else. Saying things like the 'egomania' of the Germans does an injustice to them.

If you want to talk about the egomania of the NAZI era of the past, then that is quite a separate issue.

Well spoken Henri - thank you. With very short words you have my feelings expressed. p

 

[W!nston]

Frenchgerman has made many valid points. So has Shelter, GB and Henri.

I've talked with Shelter privately on several occasions not related to the discussion threads but as individuals.

Without going into detail let me repeat what Frenchgerman said earlier "Nobody here knows me ... or better said, you only know me by what I've written" and that is just as true about Shelter. No one here knows him personally nor do they know where his life has led him or the hardships he has faced that have influenced his opinions. I can say he is a very strong and brave young man like so many other Gay men here on GH and all over the world.

Shelter is always willing to offer an olive branch when the dust settles. He is usually the first to make the peace offering when he realizes his words may have been shaded with emotion. He is a good guy who is never too proud to say 'I'm sorry' so to speak. His partner is a lucky man

 

[Shelter]

shelter, when one lives abroad, the point of view is - or can be - very different from those that stayed behind !

I do have compassion and understanding, but certainly not for this kind of behavior, not by the individual and neither (even less) by the leaders.


And the problem is exactley that ! No compassion for the others because they have no vote (for Merkel) ! So to insure her reelction she has to walk a tightrope. But leading, for me, means to have a view of the future, to have a global understanding of worldwide situations, and to be able to evaluate the outcome, not for the 'individual country' but for the system in its entirety ! And here I find her lacking !

And the 'Germans' are only to happy to follow on the harsh criticism of all the other who have different priorities.

It makes me think of a slogan ... a dictum which was used (in Germany) before the 1st WW ... : "Am deutschen Wesen soll die Welt genesen" It appears that it is a reborn reality ... Unfortunately !

Well Frenchgerman, I don't know if Am deutschen Wesen die Welt genesen soll. But on the other hand: it's a long shot, but it my pay off!

And for me, I must tell you for your disgust as a leftist (you have called yourself so!) that I will give ever my vote for Angie because I think she is after Adenauer the best chancellor we have had. And for more disgust: I'll promise to you - she will win again!

And in the opposite to your opinion let me tell you she has a very good view of the future and she has too a very good global understanding of the worldwide situations.

"For her central role in preserving European stability at a time of resurgent Russian aggression in eastern Europe, Angela Merkel is named today as The Times Person of the Year." - This my dear friend has written the TIMES - or do you think these paper is only a rag? So our German Chancellor Merkel has a very good reputation throughout the world.

And for what kind of behaviour you have no understanding - that I disagree with you and your opinion and that I say that and that I'm not quiet? Or that Mrs. Merkel will be re-elected from the majority of the population. Well you have to endure it! From my family I'm not a communist, not a socialist - but a conservative. You don't like conservatives as I don't like communists or socialists. Well that's the fact. So whatever a thread we will start here - we will be contrary.

OK I can live very good with this - and as I have said before, I'm as well always in contrary with GB (and I know sometimes he really will hate me )
but he gives me very often an impact where I have to contemplate. And sometimes I change my minds (deep in my heart, I don't want to admit it to him ).

But everything lump together, as you do it, is - well let me say it careful - sometimes insulting. You are lamenting that I wouldn't know you in the real life - sure as well you don't knowing me in the real life. And perhaps there are too linguistic problems because I'm good in English but better in German. And some things I could speak and write subtler in German.

So to the end - let us be very good enemies! I don't need your love and you don't need my love.

 

[Shelter]

One addendum:
In the thread FAVORITE QUOTES Sniffit has written one of Mahatma Gandhi and I think this fits the topic perfectly:

Honest disagreement is often a good sign of progress

 

[Frenchgerman]

yes shelter, I will agree with you that we disagree !

The difference between us is that I have opinions which I state and defend, just like you, but without resorting to blows below the belt. Even if I were to meet Merkel, I would tell her my opinion, politely, just like I told Chirac, when I met him (professionnelly) that his politics on AIDS were not bearing the right fruits. But I did it politely ...

and there is no difference for me if The Times is in agreement with me or not. There were papers which were (at those times) in agreement with Hitler's politics ... You will always find someone (person, institution, etc) to support your point of view.

 

[Frenchgerman]

I think you might finally have shown your true colors.

Other than that, please see my last post.

you need to read more carefully ...

so tell me : what are my true colors ?

 

[Shelter]

yes shelter, I will agree with you that we disagree !

The difference between us is that I have opinions which I state and defend, just like you, but without resorting to blows below the belt. Even if I were to meet Merkel, I would tell her my opinion, politely, just like I told Chirac, when I met him (professionnelly) that his politics on AIDS were not bearing the right fruits. But I did it politely ...

and there is no difference for me if The Times is in agreement with me or not. There were papers which were (at those times) in agreement with Hitler's politics ... You will always find someone (person, institution, etc) to support your point of view.

Well my dear, you can't stop! You are scolding in a sweeping blow all Germans because you don't like them with such records:
I left Germany because of the 'egomania' of the Germans
No compassion for others, none at all !
and you are then lamenting the reaction. You can very good dish it out but you can't take it! That's your mistake. And let me ask you the following: do you think your red sentences above are very politely or as well a blow below the belt! Be very cautious with accusings - you know "wer im Glashaus sitzt... And do you want really compare Mrs. Merkel with Hitler. Sure that will be politeness in the very best manner.

 

[Frenchgerman]

I didn't say that I hate them ... or that they should be hated or anything like that.

I made a constatation which were followed by my reaction ... nothing more nothing less !

 

[Shelter]

I didn't say that I hate them ... or that they should be hated or anything like that.

I made a constatation which were followed by my reaction ... nothing more nothing less !

And you got the reaction from the other side ... nothing more nothing less

 

[Shelter]

I didn't say that I hate them ... or that they should be hated or anything like that.

I made a constatation which were followed by my reaction ... nothing more nothing less !

Sure it is correct you didn't say you hate them.
But you are going as far as to say ALL are EGOMANIACS
and NO ONE has COMPASSION

That's pretty steep! And because you can't stop, I think it would be good now if you would apologise yourself for this faux pas.

 

[gb2000ie]

We seem to have gotten just a little off topic!

What ever anyone thinks about Germany, the Greek economy is still in the toilet, and needs fixing before something dramatic happens that we all regret.

B.

 

[Shelter]

Thank you GB that you lead us back - yes we have totally lost the topic. #And later of this day I will write again about Greece. Now I have to go to the hospital to vist a very good friend. I'll be back soon.

 

[Frenchgerman]

Sure it is correct you didn't say you hate them.
But you are going as far as to say ALL are EGOMANIACS
and NO ONE has COMPASSION

That's pretty steep! And because you can't stop, I think it would be good now if you would apologise yourself for this faux pas.

I have to apologize because you have susceptibilities ?

there are exceptions, like everywhere, buth those exceptions confirm the broader rule !

 

[Shelter]

I have to apologize because you have susceptibilities ?

there are exceptions, like everywhere, buth those exceptions confirm the broader rule !

No more answer to your escalating demagogic ranting! Nag as long as you want, as GB said, this has nothing to do with the originally topic. So this will be the last I'll say to you: you are in my eyes a poor guy riven by fury!

 

[Frenchgerman]

No more answer to your escalating demagogic ranting! Nag as long as you want, as GB said, this has nothing to do with the originally topic. So this will be the last I'll say to you: you are in my eyes a poor guy riven by fury!

that would be very nice ! 'cause as long as you write about German saintety I will be there trying to add a more nuanced point of view !

 

[dargelos]

Sorry if talking about Greece is off topic now but Alexis has now had his meeting with Mr Putin and nothing much has come out of it for good or bad, the visit seems to have been largely symbolic. As long as Alexis didnt drink the radioactive tea there'll be no harm done. It does signal to Angie and the rest of the world that he is desparate enough to try anything with anybody.
Him and Yanis are in a Mission Impossible situation, I dont know how they are going to get out this scrape by the end of the show but somehow they will, there is too much at stake for them not to.
Greece is lucky to have Yanis on the team. He is immensely intelligent and, I believe, entirely honest, qualities the Greeks are not used to in their public functionaries. Because he is an expert in game theory he knows just how far to push people to their absolute limits, which would be fantastic in a BDSM sex scene but I doubt he has any time for that sort of fun right now, he's too busy trying to save his country. Love him or hate him dont you still wish he can succeed.

 

[Shelter]

Thank god - we are back to the topic!

Sure I want to wish the Greek Government and most of all the Greek population all the succeed they need to raise to prosperity again.
And sure someday the will get it - but in the moment I think they are doing some wrong things. I haven't heard anything about Mr. Tsipras visit to Mr. Putin. But to ask him for money will be in my opinion a joke. To reduce the price for the gas supply - possible! But Mr. Tsipras must ask himself for what consideration. Mr. Putin is like a snake and Mr. Tsipras only is the bunny. Putin will not give presents. He is like a godfather of the Mafia. He caresses Tsipras head, pats his cheeks - and the trap snaps shut. Yesterday I've read in a newspaper - that he is very interested in terrestrial property of the government. I don't know if that would be the gold standard for the Greeks.

As well Putin wants to drive a wedge between the countries of the EU that hereby the imposed sanctions could be macerated. And if that will happen - the Greek government will be caught between two stools. It would be idiotic to bite the helping hand of the EU!

Than it would be more honest from Mr. Tsipras to leave the EU. All the many billions of Euros would be lost than - but we will survive. Mr. Tsipras and his colleagues too?

 

[klimt]

​

 

[Shelter]

​

Thanks Klimt - on Friday I will act on your advice. We will meet with friends in a Greek Restaurant where we will get our beloved Tzatziki!

 

[Ioanna]

HI guys may I interrupt you here because this is all rather mathematical and honestly I get serious pain in my head.
You all right, but what should our American, Australian, Asian and African friends do not think .... and what all do not think about the pain point where I live, I mean I'm Belgian Flemish and every year millions stream flowing of Flanders to Walonie already decades long, okay not your problem but my tax money goes in part to the other side of the country where I have nothing to do with it.
To all the German and French friends I want to say, you have the advantage that your leaders the only real "bosses" of an imaginary unified Europe ... and that benefit you or have.
Below a picture of those who have the say in Europe .....
My good friend Schelter I understand you completely, but you walk not crash, the problem is what you're proposing here occursin my country for many years and I know I can not console with the words "Be glad you indicate that instead of having to ask. "
Personally, I'm still an emotional person because every day brings tears to my eyes as I see the situation of the Palestinians, the Syriansand now also the Yemenis .... sometimes I do not sleep properly.
My "council of the day" close your eyes and listen to the song of the blackbird now get the spring !!
ESTO BEATUS